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Closeauthor=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2377.msg41710#msg41710 date=1225768100
Hey, good post, new guy! Good to see you and welcome by the way.
However, I think you misinterpreted me a bit. I know that Shinra controls all of these places, that goes without saying and that's fact. It just seems that for being a world encompassing mega corporation, said places don't really seem to be much more than little hamlets and dirt holes. Almost every single town in FF7 except for Midgar, Junon, Wutai, and MAYBE Costa Del Sol are just little podunk villages. I mean what was around before Shinra? No major cities, no castles, no presidential buildings, no anything. It's all a bunch of small towns. The world of FF7 seems sparse and empty and void.
Being a rapid fan of Final Fantasy VII, part of me feels impulsively inclined to disagree with your logic. I think it could be argued that Midgar effectively held a dominance over the rest of the game world as a result of the (eluded) war, and in essence this is adequate explanation for the lack of identity or presence of these other nations and cities. Cosmo Canyon and Gold Saucer, in particular, were pretty reverent locales with fans of the series and to see you belittle them is definitely strange.
That said, FFVII is MOST DEFINITELY a character-driven narrative. I won't attempt to argue that its game-world isn't as politically-inspired as (perhaps) IX or XII, but I think it did it's job better than you're giving it credit for.
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2377.msg41710#msg41710 date=1225768100
And by the way, Shinra isn't capitalized.
http://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery-01/art/ff7-shinra-logo.jpg
Being a rapid fan of Final Fantasy VII, part of me feels impulsively inclined to disagree with your logic. I think it could be argued that Midgar effectively held a dominance over the rest of the game world as a result of the (eluded) war, and in essence this is adequate explanation for the lack of identity or presence of these other nations and cities. Cosmo Canyon and Gold Saucer, in particular, were pretty reverent locales with fans of the series and to see you belittle them is definitely strange.
No, I'm not belitting the game nor it's places, I'm just telling the truth. As a game, I love FF7 and that's part of the reason I'm being hard on it. Besides for Midgar and Junon, there WASN'T the sense of any large cities or even nations, or even anything.
It can be argued that Kalm was kinda big and MAYBE it's own place, but the game presents it as pretty small and only prosperous because of its vicinity to Midgar.
Costa del Sol seemed like it was pretty big and MAYBE it was it's own sovereign government before.
Corel seemed like it was IMPORTANT, but not really big or even national. Barret himself said it was small and podunk and it was ran by a damn mayor.
Gongaga was confirmed to be small and irrelevant by Zack himself.
Nibelhiem was the same deal.
Cosmo Canyon certainly didn't seem too large or soveriegn.
Rocket Town. Enough said.
Wutai is a former superpower, I'll give it that. Even now it seems to be pretty large.
Icicle Inn seems podunk enough.
http://www.creativeuncut.com/gallery-01/art/ff7-shinra-logo.jpg
Okay, Shin-Ra, but not SHINRA.
Clest
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author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2377.msg41715#msg41715 date=1225769542
Then no offense, but that's just not using common sense. It's almost universally implied that only locations important for the games plot are depicted, and the rest are just implied to be there. If someone makes the conclusion that 'LOL THERE'S REALLY ONLY SEVEN TOWNS' then everyone is going to assume that person is dumb.
That specific point is a good one, I'll give you that. I'll try to think of something. Can you think of another example?
Actually, if the WORLD map which encompasses the whole world (again you can circle it) doesn´t show other locations neither any NPC at least hint at those locations, they don´t exist. It is a different story with Suikoden for example, where you just see sections of the world and still ppl talk about places you never visit so you actually know there is something else.
Let me exemplify it better: We live on Earth and we only know Earth and a bit of its suroundings, so it is still possible for me to believe that there is inteligent life in other planets. Now If I had an universe map which could show me everything on any planet and it wouldn´t show signs of inteligent life oufide Earth, I wouldn´t believe in extraterrestrial life anymore.
I can believe anything until it is PROVEN otherwise and what world maps do is exactly register all that a world has at least on the surface, just in miniature.
What I am pointing is just that it is very easy to make the player imagine the world is big and alive, but full world maps are a huge hinder to this.
Note that aside from Figaro, I see no problem with FFVI world as it is, it could very well be a lot of villages scattered all over for various reasons, has enough ports and culture. Figaro is the only thing that always bothered me :P
I even think that south Figaro could have been built where it is for agricultural reasons, but still it would, with figaro´s technology, be wise to build a small port south of the castle to transport goods and soldiers if need be, and that is probably a problem the Empire spotted to take south figato out.
Actually, if the WORLD map which encompasses the whole world (again you can circle it) doesn´t show other locations neither any NPC at least hint at those locations, they don´t exist.It is a different story with Suikoden for example, where you just see sections of the world and still ppl talk about places you never visit so you actually know there is something else.
No, that just isn't true! A world map in RPGs is just a representation for characters to cross one part of the world to another. Do you think EVERY ASPECT of a fictional world is going to be displayed on a gameplay mechanic of a world map? Furthermore, do you think that just because NPCs don't reference a specific place it doesn't exist? So basically factories, lumberyards, farms, etc don't exist because the world map isn't littered with them?
Let me exemplify it better: We live on Earth and we only know Earth and a bit of its suroundings, so it is still possible for me to believe that there is inteligent life in other planets. Now If I had an universe map which could show me everything on any planet and it wouldn´t show signs of inteligent life oufide Earth, I wouldn´t believe in extraterrestrial life anymore.
An actual map of something isn't the same thing as a gameplay mechanic in a video game. Hell, you can even argue that what you see depends on the detail of the particular map.
I can believe anything until it is PROVEN otherwise and what world maps do is exactly register all that a world has at least on the surface, just in miniature.
False. Simply false! Hence the need for implication. Something can be cleverly implied with it having to be shoved in my face 'HEY HERE IT IS BELIEVE US NOW? HERE IT IS WITH CORDINATES AND EVERYTHING'. You can reasonably believe something physical and manmade exists with reasonable implication and common sense without seeing it.
Now you hit it exactly on what I had in mind but couldn´t point how to say: Yes, maps do have different degrees of detail, however when you have a map where you can visually see trees, grass and cities, it becomes more of miniature of the world, different than maps in FFT, Front Mission or SRW, which are pretty much detailess and just show pointers to towns.
Yeah but traditional maps for RPGs only show things like major geographical features, so it's natural for forests, grass, major STORYLINE IMPORTANT cities, etc.
In traditional world maps you have a closer scale that IMO forbids omission of elements that would be the same size or bigger than elements shown. Like, in FF6 we see single houses on the world map, how could we not see a town?:P
Like I said, world maps in RPGs typically only show locations important for the games particular story.
I really don´t believe the worlds on those RPGs were created to house more than they show, again, at least for FFVI, the world could be mostly what is there: Factories? Only place to really have factories would be Empire, since Figaro and other nations would have smaller scale production, they probably have small workshops behind/bellow stores.
Well, being well versed in FF6 lore, I'd have to say you're wrong. First off, Figaro is the world's leader for engineering development and production, so they HAVE to have factories. Similar with the coal mining country of Narshe.
I really don´t believe the worlds on those RPGs were created to house more than they show,
I can prove this wrong with specific examples tonight, buddy.
(a plain grassland area or a mountain are not towns by no means, so if I see that and you tell me there is a city I will say you are mad, however show me a map with no detail and tell me there is a town somewhere and I might believe you.
You are in the minority who feels this way!
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author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2377.msg41739#msg41739 date=1225773921
Yeah but traditional maps for RPGs only show things like major geographical features, so it's natural for forests, grass, major STORYLINE IMPORTANT cities, etc.
Like I said, world maps in RPGs typically only show locations important for the games particular story.
Well, being well versed in FF6 lore, I'd have to say you're wrong. First off, Figaro is the world's leader for engineering development and production, so they HAVE to have factories. Similar with the coal mining country of Narshe.
I can prove this wrong with specific examples tonight, buddy.
You are in the minority who feels this way!
If the RPG maps you walk in only show story points they are just like movies or books since as I stated before: only thing unique about RPGs is exactly the exploration of the setting and immersion on said setting. I play RPGs to feel like traveling another world being able to see how life is in that world, not just to follow a story, the story should just be a motivation and a track so I can explore in a certain order, but not something to limit the scope of exploration of the setting.
If I ever had oficial information that FF6 had places which weren´t portrayed or mentioned in game I would feel very disappointe.
As for Figaro: Although Figaro has the means for technological production, it doesn´t seem to need that production in large scale, unlike the empire which mass produce Mtek Armors. If Figaro had Factories they´s probably build another port south of the castle to easy transport goods between it and s.Figaro and a wide fleet of ships.
My take on Figaro´s production would be some ships (like two or three per year) and tools (autocrossbow, drill etc) produced at a slower rate than blacksmiths would produce swords. They´d probably build a wooden structure near S.Figaro port to build a new ship and have a small teen mounting the tools bellow the shops in Figaro Castle along with furnaces and the other rare technological objects we see in Figaro.
And I´d like to see the proof you spoke of =^.^=
In any event the discussion is fun, just want more ppl to post too :P
AznChipmunk
4613
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2377.msg41741#msg41741 date=1225774169
I wish other people would post.
*post*
I haven't really read through the topic, but I don't really play RPGs anyways.
But I like games that are set in just one large town. (Like Way 4 & 6.) Or some other games that I can't really think of right now.
If the RPG maps you walk in only show story points they are just like movies or books since as I stated before: only thing unique about RPGs is exactly the exploration of the setting and immersion on said setting. I play RPGs to feel like traveling another world being able to see how life is in that world, not just to follow a story, the story should just be a motivation and a track so I can explore in a certain order, but not something to limit the scope of exploration of the setting.
Hence the fact that it's a gameplay limitation. Most people realize this, and they assume that there obviously has to be more towns/cities in the game than displayed simply because it's common sense. Yes, exploration and immersion is a focal point of RPGs but it can only be done with so much detail, and the rest you just have to assume with your imagination. Modern RPGs like FF12 are getting closer to actually portraying everything that exists as you travel but even then the player must rely on imagination and implication. The game isn't going to spoonfeed you every little detail.
If I ever had oficial information that FF6 had places which weren´t portrayed or mentioned in game I would feel very disappointe.
Prepare to be disappointed; FF6 had a Japan only plot bible that was released a long time ago. I read some translations of it a while back and there are indeed a few places that exist (like character hometowns ect) but you never go to because it wasn't important in the game itself.
As for Figaro: Although Figaro has the means for technological production, it doesn´t seem to need that production in large scale, unlike the empire which mass produce Mtek Armors. If Figaro had Factories they´s probably build another port south of the castle to easy transport goods between it and s.Figaro and a wide fleet of ships.
Like I said, Figaro is a major power, and the only reason it's factories and production facilities aren't shown in game because it isn't important to the story, most people don't give a shit, and if they do wonder (like us for example), they assume that they're there somewhere and roll with it.
My take on Figaro´s production would be some ships (like two or three per year) and tools (autocrossbow, drill etc) produced at a slower rate than blacksmiths would produce swords. They´d probably build a wooden structure near S.Figaro port to build a new ship and have a small teen mounting the tools bellow the shops in Figaro Castle along with furnaces and the other rare technological objects we see in Figaro.
False. Machinery in Figaro is mass produced in Figaro Castle, assembly lines, and factories. I read this much in the old guidebook I saw.
And I´d like to see the proof you spoke of =^.^=
Here's an example; in Xenogears, we find out that Sigurd was born in Aveh's southern deserts. In the world map if you were to go there, there's nothing there on the world map. However, in Xenogears Perfect Works, the Xenogears plot bible, it tells you that Sigurds hometown's name was Noln and it even points out it's location on the world map. The explanation the guide gives for not being in the game is pretty much "It wasn't important to go there so we didn't put it in, deal with it"
The proof is in the pudding.
http://
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2377.msg41715#msg41715 date=1225769542That's passing the responsibility of world building to the audience. So if you're supposed to assume there's all this infrastructure thats invisible to the audience but it should logically be there, why isn't it ever used? Figaro Castle to South Figaro. Why would you ever take the land route? Its through a cave that's filled with nasty critters and even if it was empty its still narrow and progress would be slow carrying a lot of goods and dealing with two way traffic. Its basically a rediculous land route but if there's all this implied infrastructure, it wouldn't be a problem! Figaro Castle is close to the ocean, and the cave between South \Figaro\ Castle is pretty much a stone's throw away. Ocean travel is also faster than land travel in almost every way and weather conditions are half the problem since all it takes to get a ship from one Figaro to the other would be a coastal route.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that a sense of nationality and population should be better implied in RPGs, but I'm not going to arrive to the default conclusion of 'well I don't see it so it's not there' route.
So logically there should be a pier that has a direct land connection with Figaro Castle. If there was a pier there, traffic between the two plot important cities of Figaro would be much quicker and far more efficient than what's already there. However the pier that should exist is never mentioned by the party who decide to take the slow route via some cave. If the party went to the pier, they'd even have the protection of the Figaro Navy (which would logically exist as Figaro should be a maritime power due to the logical existance of the aforementioned pier). I doubt the Imperial Navy would be able to stop them unless they were informed of Figaro's betrayal and prepared in advance to fight against Figaro's capital's fleet. The party should logically have headed to the pier to get to South Figaro and that much closer to the Returner's HQ in less time. That makes it an important plot location (more than Maranda), and therefore it should be a place the player can see and go to.
So why doesn't the Pier exist? Because how the world works was tossed aside and given to the player to assume everything. Its much easier to see a huge uncovered hole than it is to see one filled with something and given a neat cover. Its still there and it isn't difficult to notice but its a hell of a lot better than absolutely nothing and pretending it isn't a problem.
This pier problem is in a lot of RPGs. The city should have a pier because it isn't 2000 BC so the player should be able to use it to get around instead of going through caves. Dismissing it for gameplay issues means the world is set up in a way that isn't logical and then you can't logically assume what is there and what isn't because the world conforms to the whims of the designers instead of logical consequence.
YOU HAVE A POINT GRS BUT ONCE AGAIN YOU'RE THINKING TOO HARD ABOUT IT ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING IT'S A 15 YEAR OLD VIDEO GAME
Don't get me wrong, you make a LOT of sense, but just because the party took a weird way through a cave doesn't mean that 'WHOOPS NO OTHER INFRASTRUCTURE EXISTS EITHER LOL'. I mean it's kinda weird but no need to take the absolutism path either. You know what I mean?
No, it's going 'hey, we're trying to fit a story in a video game, so just use common sense where it applies'
Because I don't know about you, but I don't care to pass through a whole bunch of farms, factories, lumberyards, forts, etc to get from point A to B. Maybe from point A to P, but not A to B.
Don't get me wrong, you make a LOT of sense, but just because the party took a weird way through a cave doesn't mean that 'WHOOPS NO OTHER INFRASTRUCTURE EXISTS EITHER LOL'. I mean it's kinda weird but no need to take the absolutism path either. You know what I mean?
That's passing the responsibility of world building to the audience.
No, it's going 'hey, we're trying to fit a story in a video game, so just use common sense where it applies'
So if you're supposed to assume there's all this infrastructure thats invisible to the audience but it should logically be there, why isn't it ever used?
Because I don't know about you, but I don't care to pass through a whole bunch of farms, factories, lumberyards, forts, etc to get from point A to B. Maybe from point A to P, but not A to B.
Clest
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Funny you mention Perfect Works as I was exactly cite it regarding the FF6 guidebook you mentioned: Perfect works was a book in the project that Xenogears would be, but ended not being, so half the information there doesn´t apply to the released game. As for Sigurd village, I always assumed south of Aveh desert was Dazil, or if not, that his village was destroyed or something.
As for Figaro: I wonder what the hell they produce so much in those assembly lines since the only Figaro exclusive technology we ever see are Edgar´s tools and Figaro Castle underground moving system.
I won´t go as far as to doubt your world on the guidebook thingy, I have no reason (or proof) that it doesn´t exist, but I still think it probably countains things that were thought to be in but cut out from the game and since those were not even mentioned in game, the characters whose hometowns for example, were not mentioned, could be born in any of the existing towns.
Also if you can assume things like that, how can you not assume that there are castle or old capital ruins in FF7 which were just not shown on the world map?
But again: I thought the point of the topic was to discuss on ways to better portray geopolitical aspects of a setting into RPGs, one of my suggestions is exactly to avoid traditional world maps, or to make the more accurate to what should be portayed, even if certain towns are there just as markers but can´t be entered.
Even if we make an effort to believe there are towns were the map shows nothing, the overall feel is that there is nothing in there, same as no matter how much I accept ramdom encounters I still don´t feel as confortable with an empty dungeon which actually hides creatures which can´t be seen than with something like Chrono Trigger´s dungeons where enemies make the setting more lively.
And none of my suggestions compromise gameplay in any aspect.
As for Figaro: I wonder what the hell they produce so much in those assembly lines since the only Figaro exclusive technology we ever see are Edgar´s tools and Figaro Castle underground moving system.
I won´t go as far as to doubt your world on the guidebook thingy, I have no reason (or proof) that it doesn´t exist, but I still think it probably countains things that were thought to be in but cut out from the game and since those were not even mentioned in game, the characters whose hometowns for example, were not mentioned, could be born in any of the existing towns.
Also if you can assume things like that, how can you not assume that there are castle or old capital ruins in FF7 which were just not shown on the world map?
But again: I thought the point of the topic was to discuss on ways to better portray geopolitical aspects of a setting into RPGs, one of my suggestions is exactly to avoid traditional world maps, or to make the more accurate to what should be portayed, even if certain towns are there just as markers but can´t be entered.
Even if we make an effort to believe there are towns were the map shows nothing, the overall feel is that there is nothing in there, same as no matter how much I accept ramdom encounters I still don´t feel as confortable with an empty dungeon which actually hides creatures which can´t be seen than with something like Chrono Trigger´s dungeons where enemies make the setting more lively.
And none of my suggestions compromise gameplay in any aspect.
author=Clest link=topic=2377.msg41765#msg41765 date=1225776875
Funny you mention Perfect Works as I was exactly cite it regarding the FF6 guidebook you mentioned: Perfect works was a book in the project that Xenogears would be, but ended not being, so half the information there doesn´t apply to the released game. As for Sigurd village, I always assumed south of Aveh desert was Dazil, or if not, that his village was destroyed or something.
No, it definitely applies to the finished product! They just couldn't fit in in a 50 hour game. You guys keep seem to forgetting that all of this discussion applies to the very relatively limited format of a video game!
As for Figaro: I wonder what the hell they produce so much in those assembly lines since the only Figaro exclusive technology we ever see are Edgar´s tools and Figaro Castle underground moving system.
This is because that's all we ever need to see in the story. If there was a segment of the game where the Figaro's army fought the Empire, then sure, we would have seen those things, but since the game's story didn't take that turn, we didn't!
I won´t go as far as to doubt your world on the guidebook thingy, I have no reason (or proof) that it doesn´t exist, but I still think it probably countains things that were thought to be in but cut out from the game and since those were not even mentioned in game, the characters whose hometowns for example, were not mentioned, could be born in any of the existing towns.
Like I said, the books were released because all of that information couldn't be contained in a 1995 video game. The books were released to share info that's still canon however.
Also if you can assume things like that, how can you not assume that there are castle or old capital ruins in FF7 which were just not shown on the world map?
The game world didn't do a good job of implying they were there. I don't have to be shown something directly to believe it's there if it's implied.
But again: I thought the point of the topic was to discuss on ways to better portray geopolitical aspects of a setting into RPGs, one of my suggestions is exactly to avoid traditional world maps, or to make the more accurate to what should be portayed, even if certain towns are there just as markers but can´t be entered.
Considering games like Tales of Destiny and Xenogears conveyed geopolitical aspects very well while still being traditional RPGs, I'd like to stick to that route of suggestion.
Even if we make an effort to believe there are towns were the map shows nothing, the overall feel is that there is nothing in there, same as no matter how much I accept ramdom encounters I still don´t feel as confortable with an empty dungeon which actually hides creatures which can´t be seen than with something like Chrono Trigger´s dungeons where enemies make the setting more lively.
You're in a minority, as far as I know!
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Figaro´s army actually support the raid on the empire capital (though it sems they just supplied technology since you only see Narshee soldiers during the siege) so Immagine the narshee and figaro dudes stormed in Vector wielding drills and autocrossbows madly :P But well yeah, nothing much besides that.
Also I didn´t say it is impossible to convey a good world through traditional world map, as I said, aside from the stuff with Figaro, FF6 has a nice world as it is shown even if I don´t imagine anything else. Not perfect but good enough. Same for the two you mentioned. However it means that specially in ToD case, the world map portrayed well what it was supposed to.
In fact, Xenogears disc 2 uses the suggestion I made about having city notations even if they are just there so you know they are, but can´t enter.
And lastly: I know and understand your point, it was a 1995 RPG and all, however what we are saying here are ways to make something better, suggestions for improvement, I don´t think justifying what commercial games did is productive in that sense.
Just to note: My top 3 RPGs are FF6, Chrono Trigger and Phantasy Star 4
Also I didn´t say it is impossible to convey a good world through traditional world map, as I said, aside from the stuff with Figaro, FF6 has a nice world as it is shown even if I don´t imagine anything else. Not perfect but good enough. Same for the two you mentioned. However it means that specially in ToD case, the world map portrayed well what it was supposed to.
In fact, Xenogears disc 2 uses the suggestion I made about having city notations even if they are just there so you know they are, but can´t enter.
And lastly: I know and understand your point, it was a 1995 RPG and all, however what we are saying here are ways to make something better, suggestions for improvement, I don´t think justifying what commercial games did is productive in that sense.
Just to note: My top 3 RPGs are FF6, Chrono Trigger and Phantasy Star 4
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2377.msg41764#msg41764 date=1225776722
YOU HAVE A POINT GRS BUT ONCE AGAIN YOU'RE THINKING TOO HARD ABOUT IT ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING IT'S A 15 YEAR OLD VIDEO GAME
Don't get me wrong, you make a LOT of sense, but just because the party took a weird way through a cave doesn't mean that 'WHOOPS NO OTHER INFRASTRUCTURE EXISTS EITHER LOL'. I mean it's kinda weird but no need to take the absolutism path either. You know what I mean?
I agree there isn't much point to showing all the small stuff besides burning valuable manhours away, but not showing stuff like roads instead of throwing it under the "imagine its there because logic" blanket is what bugs me. They don't take much to implement but it would help out a lot. Chrono Trigger with its roads felt more like a real world than most pre-FF10 games ever did. It even had a pier and a ship you could ride that served no purpose in the entire game.
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2377.msg41767#msg41767 date=1225777240Work with what you've got. There doesn't seem to be any traces of an older civilization in most of the world so odds are the civilization inhabiting most of the world wasn't that advanced. Think of the Midgar continent as Europe, Costa de Sol as New World North America, and Wutai as Japan. The big established Midgar empires (focused in Junon and Midgar) set off to find new lands with their fancy colonial technology and found the Costa De Sol continent filled with backwards nomads with no standing civilization. Commense aggresive colonization to seize the new lands from the nomads, Midgar empires take foot but make sure their colonies don't expand to become completely self sustaining. This way the ancient capitals are Midgar and Junon (demolished for renovations with new technology), the Costa De Sol never had any ancient capitals or empires, just a lot of nomadic people. Is there any strucutures left of the various NA tribes like the Huron or Cherowkee tribes? No, they never had any so there was nothing to be left behind.author=Clest link=topic=2377.msg41765#msg41765 date=1225776875
Also if you can assume things like that, how can you not assume that there are castle or old capital ruins in FF7 which were just not shown on the world map?
The game world didn't do a good job of implying they were there. I don't have to be shown something directly to believe it's there if it's implied.
I agree there isn't much point to showing all the small stuff besides burning valuable manhours away, but not showing stuff like roads instead of throwing it under the "imagine its there because logic" blanket is what bugs me. They don't take much to implement but it would help out a lot. Chrono Trigger with its roads felt more like a real world than most pre-FF10 games ever did. It even had a pier and a ship you could ride that served no purpose in the entire game.
I can agree.
Work with what you've got. There doesn't seem to be any traces of an older civilization in most of the world so odds are the civilization inhabiting most of the world wasn't that advanced. Think of the Midgar continent as Europe, Costa de Sol as New World North America, and Wutai as Japan. The big established Midgar empires (focused in Junon and Midgar) set off to find new lands with their fancy colonial technology and found the Costa De Sol continent filled with backwards nomads with no standing civilization. Commense aggresive colonization to seize the new lands from the nomads, Midgar empires take foot but make sure their colonies don't expand to become completely self sustaining. This way the ancient capitals are Midgar and Junon (demolished for renovations with new technology), the Costa De Sol never had any ancient capitals or empires, just a lot of nomadic people. Is there any strucutures left of the various NA tribes like the Huron or Cherowkee tribes? No, they never had any so there was nothing to be left behind.
See this is okay thinking until you realize that Shinra very recently became a world power and was just a lowly weapons company just a few decades ago.
Clest
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In FF7 I´d worry more about transportation, specially how they transported material to Rocket Town. Also Midgar suffers the thing of Figaro Caswtle in being close to the sea and having no port (even worse cause Midgar is even closer to the sea) and the fact that Shin-Ra is highly industrialized but never mass produced airsplanes/apirships despite already starting a space program.
It doesn't matter who did the steamrolling. Whatever authorative body there was before ShinRa took the reigns from them after they colonized the CostaDeSol continent.
Its all from the same horrible source as fanfiction but it is one explanation that does make some logical sense IMO. As long as the premise is canon (or at least not-canon) it is a possibility of why there aren't any ancient structures.
Why am I writing borderline FF7 fanfiction?
Clest: Following that minor infrastructure is invisible, there should be some sort of port near Rocket Town. The ship's components could be built in Junon and shipped to that port for transport to Rocket Town for assembly. The port isn't important since you get the Tiny Bronco right after Rocket Town and you don't need a ship anymore (well you can't go to Jidoor with the Tiny Bronco I suppose).
Its all from the same horrible source as fanfiction but it is one explanation that does make some logical sense IMO. As long as the premise is canon (or at least not-canon) it is a possibility of why there aren't any ancient structures.
Why am I writing borderline FF7 fanfiction?
Clest: Following that minor infrastructure is invisible, there should be some sort of port near Rocket Town. The ship's components could be built in Junon and shipped to that port for transport to Rocket Town for assembly. The port isn't important since you get the Tiny Bronco right after Rocket Town and you don't need a ship anymore (well you can't go to Jidoor with the Tiny Bronco I suppose).
author=Clest link=topic=2377.msg41773#msg41773 date=1225779780
In FF7 I´d worry more about transportation, specially how they transported material to Rocket Town. Also Midgar suffers the thing of Figaro Caswtle in being close to the sea and having no port (even worse cause Midgar is even closer to the sea) and the fact that Shin-Ra is highly industrialized but never mass produced airsplanes/apirships despite already starting a space program.
Shinra and the world of FF7 in general (and even some instances of citizens) has an incredibly high number of boats, planes, and helicopters, not to mention all kinds of land vehicles like cars and tanks. Hell, they even have submarines.
It doesn't matter who did the steamrolling. Whatever authorative body there was before ShinRa took the reigns from them after they colonized the CostaDeSol continent.
Its all from the same horrible source as fanfiction but it is one explanation that does make some logical sense IMO. As long as the premise is canon (or at least not-canon) it is a possibility of why there aren't any ancient structures.
wut
