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GreatRedSpirit
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CloseWe're probably on completely different wavelengths again. At least we agreed on something before going perpendicular again 
kayzorkross
25
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2377.msg41710#msg41710 date=1225768100
Hey, good post, new guy! Good to see you and welcome by the way.
However, I think you misinterpreted me a bit. I know that Shinra controls all of these places, that goes without saying and that's fact. It just seems that for being a world encompassing mega corporation, said places don't really seem to be much more than little hamlets and dirt holes. Almost every single town in FF7 except for Midgar, Junon, Wutai, and MAYBE Costa Del Sol are just little podunk villages. I mean what was around before Shinra? No major cities, no castles, no presidential buildings, no anything. It's all a bunch of small towns. The world of FF7 seems sparse and empty and void.
And by the way, Shinra isn't capitalized.
Thank you for the welcome. :)
I see your point. I can only think that Midgar's such a residential/economic superpower that the world was forced to leave their towns and seek residence there. Mako reactors made more manual means of acquiring energy obsolete reducing the number of jobs etc.
Your argument makes a lot more sense with your elaboration though I see where you are coming from.
I tend not to get political in my games. For the most part, since you are generally an average citizen (in their 20's), it doesn't have an impact on them. They won't be seeing kings or whatever, the most they'll do is take pictures of a government building because it looked cool then get yelled at by a guard because they're not supposed to take pictures there.
This Overworld discussion is pretty interesting. If I see a boring overworld with 7 towns, generic forests, open plains, caves and mountains, I'll basically assume that the world is boring and empty. I'm fine with imagining stuff if they at least hint at it. It's true that if they place a physical town on, that people will want to explore it or assume it's relevant. But I don't like worldmaps much anyway, I like connected areas better, like a Secret of Mana type of thing. Plus, it kills the exploration for me to have all these random encounters. I don't feel like exploring until I get something like an airship that prevents encounters. And it's usually still not fun exploring because all you see are the same grass/water/forest/mountain textures/tiles.
I do both a small world map (basically select the areas you want to go to), and a connected world. You mostly travel through the connected world, so you can see the entire Island. It's small, but it's pretty much all explorable. I don't need to hint at any non-existant towns because they don't exist. For other projects, I am thinking about how I am going to restrict access to only certain areas while still having the player really feel like there's a lot more out there, without allowing them to go there. Especially when it's supposed to have a modern feel.
I've always felt there were too many caves in RPGs. First town, cave, second town, cave, third town, cave, tower, lava cave, ice cave, empire, final cave, castle. Besides generally being really dull, I wonder how towns trade between each other, if these caves are dangerous and long. Also, if they have seperate trade routes, why couldn't the player use that instead of the stupid caves? Since a lot of an RPG is about exploration since it's so big (unless it's completely linear like FFX), the exploration and how the world is built should make sense too, not just be like "Cave, Town, I guess they'll need another cave here, Town, Tower, Town, another fight monsters area, Town, Cave, Town, Final dungeon"
I've been to a cave in real life, and unlike an RPG cave, it was actually interesting.
This Overworld discussion is pretty interesting. If I see a boring overworld with 7 towns, generic forests, open plains, caves and mountains, I'll basically assume that the world is boring and empty. I'm fine with imagining stuff if they at least hint at it. It's true that if they place a physical town on, that people will want to explore it or assume it's relevant. But I don't like worldmaps much anyway, I like connected areas better, like a Secret of Mana type of thing. Plus, it kills the exploration for me to have all these random encounters. I don't feel like exploring until I get something like an airship that prevents encounters. And it's usually still not fun exploring because all you see are the same grass/water/forest/mountain textures/tiles.
I do both a small world map (basically select the areas you want to go to), and a connected world. You mostly travel through the connected world, so you can see the entire Island. It's small, but it's pretty much all explorable. I don't need to hint at any non-existant towns because they don't exist. For other projects, I am thinking about how I am going to restrict access to only certain areas while still having the player really feel like there's a lot more out there, without allowing them to go there. Especially when it's supposed to have a modern feel.
I've always felt there were too many caves in RPGs. First town, cave, second town, cave, third town, cave, tower, lava cave, ice cave, empire, final cave, castle. Besides generally being really dull, I wonder how towns trade between each other, if these caves are dangerous and long. Also, if they have seperate trade routes, why couldn't the player use that instead of the stupid caves? Since a lot of an RPG is about exploration since it's so big (unless it's completely linear like FFX), the exploration and how the world is built should make sense too, not just be like "Cave, Town, I guess they'll need another cave here, Town, Tower, Town, another fight monsters area, Town, Cave, Town, Final dungeon"
I've been to a cave in real life, and unlike an RPG cave, it was actually interesting.
VideoWizard
2842
About the places being implied but you never go to thing- there's a path in Final Fantasy X/X-2 on the first island, Besaid, that you never take. If you try to go that way, the game won't let you. And there are more islands on the airship map than you ever go to. Conclusion: Final Fantasy X/X-2 have more towns than are shown in the story. They just aren't important.
Suikoden I through V (and now VI) more than likely take place on the same world, at different times. What is implied in Suiko1 isn't visited until Suiko2 or even Suiko3.
Breath of Fire did well at implying other towns/villages/continents even from its first game (well, maybe not continents in the first two). On the path to the Clock tower, there are several demolished villages shown on the map.
Breath of Fire III has several areas closed off (Northern Checkpoint, Western Checkpoint, etc.) where, undoubtedly, something exists. More than likely, Monster Island from the first two BoFs would be somewhere above the final town, as an example. And let's not forget the huge expanse of land never visited in Breath of Fire IV.
Dragon Quest VIII has several smaller areas than towns while wandering the map, so they probably existed in earlier games, they just weren't necessary. Dragon Quest I probably had farms and the like, too. Wasn't that the one where some girl was selling tomatoes? You couldn't actually buy them, but it did suggest that there are farms around somewhere.
As for my own game, I try to make it where each area looks different enough from the last. That way, it feels like a different country.
Why is Final Fantasy so terrible at portraying the possible existence of other towns and villages?
Suikoden I through V (and now VI) more than likely take place on the same world, at different times. What is implied in Suiko1 isn't visited until Suiko2 or even Suiko3.
Breath of Fire did well at implying other towns/villages/continents even from its first game (well, maybe not continents in the first two). On the path to the Clock tower, there are several demolished villages shown on the map.
I think all those towns got aged to oblivion.
Breath of Fire III has several areas closed off (Northern Checkpoint, Western Checkpoint, etc.) where, undoubtedly, something exists. More than likely, Monster Island from the first two BoFs would be somewhere above the final town, as an example. And let's not forget the huge expanse of land never visited in Breath of Fire IV.
Dragon Quest VIII has several smaller areas than towns while wandering the map, so they probably existed in earlier games, they just weren't necessary. Dragon Quest I probably had farms and the like, too. Wasn't that the one where some girl was selling tomatoes? You couldn't actually buy them, but it did suggest that there are farms around somewhere.
As for my own game, I try to make it where each area looks different enough from the last. That way, it feels like a different country.
Why is Final Fantasy so terrible at portraying the possible existence of other towns and villages?
Clest
0
author=Ocean link=topic=2377.msg41781#msg41781 date=1225789219
I tend not to get political in my games. For the most part, since you are generally an average citizen (in their 20's), it doesn't have an impact on them. They won't be seeing kings or whatever, the most they'll do is take pictures of a government building because it looked cool then get yelled at by a guard because they're not supposed to take pictures there.
This Overworld discussion is pretty interesting. If I see a boring overworld with 7 towns, generic forests, open plains, caves and mountains, I'll basically assume that the world is boring and empty. I'm fine with imagining stuff if they at least hint at it. It's true that if they place a physical town on, that people will want to explore it or assume it's relevant. But I don't like worldmaps much anyway, I like connected areas better, like a Secret of Mana type of thing. Plus, it kills the exploration for me to have all these random encounters. I don't feel like exploring until I get something like an airship that prevents encounters. And it's usually still not fun exploring because all you see are the same grass/water/forest/mountain textures/tiles.
I do both a small world map (basically select the areas you want to go to), and a connected world. You mostly travel through the connected world, so you can see the entire Island. It's small, but it's pretty much all explorable. I don't need to hint at any non-existant towns because they don't exist. For other projects, I am thinking about how I am going to restrict access to only certain areas while still having the player really feel like there's a lot more out there, without allowing them to go there. Especially when it's supposed to have a modern feel.
I've always felt there were too many caves in RPGs. First town, cave, second town, cave, third town, cave, tower, lava cave, ice cave, empire, final cave, castle. Besides generally being really dull, I wonder how towns trade between each other, if these caves are dangerous and long. Also, if they have seperate trade routes, why couldn't the player use that instead of the stupid caves? Since a lot of an RPG is about exploration since it's so big (unless it's completely linear like FFX), the exploration and how the world is built should make sense too, not just be like "Cave, Town, I guess they'll need another cave here, Town, Tower, Town, another fight monsters area, Town, Cave, Town, Final dungeon"
I've been to a cave in real life, and unlike an RPG cave, it was actually interesting.
It is funny how we agree in everything on this despite having such different concepts for our projects, after all most of the time my characters are part of an army and are heavily influenced by politics making alliances and trying to confront political enemies.
Anyway, you can limit a modern area by saying thaty if the characters take a road out the area you limited (assuming it is not an Island, cause it is just make boats and helicopters unavaliable due to many ppl renting then or lack of money from the characters or even wheather) they mightjust say that walking that road further would take then nowhere without too much walking, then they´d step and face back to your area.
If by all means you need to give then a car or helicopter or boat, make it so they borrowed/rented and the owner limit´s their usage area and tracks it via GPS, so if the player try to go past your limits border character A says: "We can´t go further , we´d be transpassing the limit of the rental car usage area!"
I think the dream world map would be a cross between suikoden and Chrono Trigger: A small area with no ramdom encounters and all important (to the world, not to the story) places present :P
Anyone else want to discuss or throw a comment in before I let this topic hit the depths of the proverbial topic ocean?
Most of my games take place in the real world or the distant future of the real world anyway, so this topic is kind of not for me. let it sink, I say.
Clest
0
I disagree Mcgee, in fact working with the real world takes all that much more into account since rather than creating a convincing political system, you must emulate the systems that run our world or would in a hypothetical future.
And to that I think you have a lot you can say since I tottally dig your Systems Malfunction setting which takes root in our world´s stuff but mix it with other elements and felt solid when I read the wiki :)
And to that I think you have a lot you can say since I tottally dig your Systems Malfunction setting which takes root in our world´s stuff but mix it with other elements and felt solid when I read the wiki :)
That's true I am basically a master at extrapolating real world social, economic, and political trends into science fiction settings. But that seems to me to be less what this topic is about. This topic seems to be more about CREATING NATIONS from whole cloth, which is much less my strong suit.
Also, none of my games are overtly political, but the Iron Gaia games, especially Virus, have some political undertones, especially if you look at obscure things like Dr. Cross's backstory.
Also, none of my games are overtly political, but the Iron Gaia games, especially Virus, have some political undertones, especially if you look at obscure things like Dr. Cross's backstory.
Clest
0
Well I think the issue here is more on how things are portrayed in game rather than how they are created.
And regarding that, there is the diary of the dead frozen dude who looks like Elmdor from FFT in Iron Gaia, where it shows all the backstory of how the station plan came in :P
I still want a game set on systems malfunction though, that would be suit :D (specially if the Sinners make a cameo ;) ).
And regarding that, there is the diary of the dead frozen dude who looks like Elmdor from FFT in Iron Gaia, where it shows all the backstory of how the station plan came in :P
I still want a game set on systems malfunction though, that would be suit :D (specially if the Sinners make a cameo ;) ).
Whatever you do don't look at the first, fourth, and fourteenth pages of the screenshot topic.
Yeah, most RPGs are really, really bad at this. Like, whether fantasy or science fiction or whatever. The political landscape of Front Mission basically makes no sense. I don't know, Maybe it's just because it comes form such a Japanese world view that I can't understand it.
Yeah, most RPGs are really, really bad at this. Like, whether fantasy or science fiction or whatever. The political landscape of Front Mission basically makes no sense. I don't know, Maybe it's just because it comes form such a Japanese world view that I can't understand it.
Clest
0
OH so that is what you have been working on? :O
Anyway I like Front Mission political view, or rather how it is portrayed (execution let´s say) since for most FM games I played they focus on places far from where I live and USN is just mentioned and appears but you don´t actually come to America. Well there is FM Gun hazard which I played and shows some bits around here, but FM GH is very supperficial dealing with settings since it is more a side scroller game than an RPG.
Now FM3, for having a protagonist japanese guy, starting in japan and keeping mostly around OCU seemed good enough.
Anyway I like Front Mission political view, or rather how it is portrayed (execution let´s say) since for most FM games I played they focus on places far from where I live and USN is just mentioned and appears but you don´t actually come to America. Well there is FM Gun hazard which I played and shows some bits around here, but FM GH is very supperficial dealing with settings since it is more a side scroller game than an RPG.
Now FM3, for having a protagonist japanese guy, starting in japan and keeping mostly around OCU seemed good enough.
If I'm not mistaken...fully half of FM IV takes place right near where you live, Clest. I'm really curious what you'd think of their (sometimes very stereotypical, sometimes kind of interesting) depiction of South America.
Clest
0
Yeah, I actually should play it sometime. At least in FM Gun Hazard they created a fictional high tech city in Brasil which is a surprise when most games either show Brasil as beach, cave, jungle or lame slums XD
suzuricho
283
Hold on, though.
You guys mentioned Tales of Destiny as having a great set up with countries and politics. I'm currently in the process of playing that game, and I noticed it from the get go. You have Senegald, Phandaria, Aquaveil... each with their own history and economic/political problems. This was well executed.
I'm a Tales FANGIRL. I have to mention Tales of the Abyss, one of the newer games to the series. There is a lot of politics involved here, too. The two main countries, Kimlasca and Malkuth have big continents full of numerous cities and resources - you have to get passports, there's political meetings between the countries, they even go into how the world's main religion that both countries follow effects the trading around the world. Your main character ends up being an Ambassador from his home, and the party you control during the game are actually members of different political factions trying to fix problems for all parties across that world. It's not just a group of ragtag heroes go and save the world, it's made out to be much more than that - though in the end you end up saving the world anyway.
But as far as numerous countries, Destiny has it better thus far.
...
For my own game, I do have major countries established, Dwega and Mariba, as well as a few towns that are just controlled by a mayor or a bordertown that just doesn't have anybody ruling it... but I am not done with the story yet, and I still have plenty more to figure out. But I want to involve the politics between Dwega and Mariba as a crucial part of the story, I'm just not very good at anything political. I might need help with that.
You guys mentioned Tales of Destiny as having a great set up with countries and politics. I'm currently in the process of playing that game, and I noticed it from the get go. You have Senegald, Phandaria, Aquaveil... each with their own history and economic/political problems. This was well executed.
I'm a Tales FANGIRL. I have to mention Tales of the Abyss, one of the newer games to the series. There is a lot of politics involved here, too. The two main countries, Kimlasca and Malkuth have big continents full of numerous cities and resources - you have to get passports, there's political meetings between the countries, they even go into how the world's main religion that both countries follow effects the trading around the world. Your main character ends up being an Ambassador from his home, and the party you control during the game are actually members of different political factions trying to fix problems for all parties across that world. It's not just a group of ragtag heroes go and save the world, it's made out to be much more than that - though in the end you end up saving the world anyway.
But as far as numerous countries, Destiny has it better thus far.
...
For my own game, I do have major countries established, Dwega and Mariba, as well as a few towns that are just controlled by a mayor or a bordertown that just doesn't have anybody ruling it... but I am not done with the story yet, and I still have plenty more to figure out. But I want to involve the politics between Dwega and Mariba as a crucial part of the story, I'm just not very good at anything political. I might need help with that.
gyrus
0
For my game I'm really tring to get a good political landscape. There are 4 main continents, each loosely based off aspects of places in our world. They are several languages in the world (but luckily one of the main character pretty much acts as the interpreter). There are also divisions in some places and islands with indigenous people. For example, one continent is split into two sides by a huge mountain range. The northern side is icy and inhabited by people similar to Inuits. The southern side was discovered by another continent so is ruled by the same king, but wishes to become independant.
