STATS AND DAMAGE

Posts

Pages: 1
Craze
why would i heal when i could equip a morningstar
15170
Most of you game designers use rm2k3, which is pretty limited in what you can do with stats if you use the basic formulas (and not using them is a pain), even if you use the attribute trick to make the INT stat not suck. Do you use these stats outside of battle, though? Maybe you added in a skill that heals based on the user's DEF. Maybe you're not using rm2k3 and have your own battle system! TELL ME.

I want to know what makes those numbers in your game NIFTY. If they are not NIFTY, maybe this topic can help you create some ideas!


My numbers:
Endurance It's HP with a longer name.

Spirit It's MP. Only En and Sp increase during level-ups.

Weapon How shiny your weapon is. When attacking physically, this is used against the target's Willpower to generate a damage multiplier. The higher this is, the more damage you CAN do--but it won't actually cause damage by itself.

Talent The same as Weapon, but a measure of how potent your magical apparatus is.

Brawn Your innate strength that determines physical damage. While this might stay at 100 the entire game, its power will grow with levels (much like Final Fantasy games).

Willpower Controls most aspects of a good defense. This works against Weapon and Talent to determine a damage multiplier. It also increases how much healing you recieve from spells on an exponential scale.

Mysticality Works exactly like Brawn, but determines the damage for various spells. Also used to decide whether or not you can equip extremely magical armor.

Dexterity Essentially decides your place in the turn order of battle. It does more, though--the higher your Dexterity, the exponentially better you'll be at evading attacks and adding bonus damage to your attacks and heals (yes, you can perform a CRITICAL HEAL).

Sex Appeal An invisible stat that alters the chance of an enemy hitting you, and influences some minor plot points. Certain pieces of equipment can toy with this....


::)
IMO, it's not the stats and the formulas and the number-crunching that turns the DBS into something fresh and unique, it's the skills and battle events. When it comes to stats, though, I try to keep them as low as possible to make things simpler and easier to balance.
Current battle system:
Health- HP. Dur.
Offense- Raw damage
Defense- Buffers damage
Skill- Effects hit % chance, critical hit % chance and spell damage
Speed- Effects hit % chance, attack frequency, and spell avoidance



Old project's battle system:
Mana: HP
Charge: MP, increases by 1 with each normal attack
Attack: Raw damage
Defense: Buffers damage
Will: Raw magical damage, and effects strength of offensive parries
Aura: Buffers magical damage, and effects strength of defensive parries
Weight: Weight of the character and their armor/weapon
Agility: Quickness
Speed: Agility minus weight, determines dodge rates and who strikes first in battle.
even if you use the attribute trick to make the INT stat not suck.

Hmm?
Craze
why would i heal when i could equip a morningstar
15170
Toasters: See, I like bigger numbers (100+) because I find it easier to balance things with CHUNKS, not little tiny numbers. That said, almost everything I do deals with oodles of percentages--little 3% boosts or whatever aren't that great when you have 14 ATK!

MOG: Go download Gutts' goliath patch for rm2k3 (or david patch, if you have a small screen). Set physical attack attributes (you know, where you set up BLUDGEON RANGED FIRE HOLY etc) to 400% at rank C and magic attacks to 800% at rank C. Voila! Now when you have your skills set to "5 magic influence" the damage gained from the INT stat will be equal to the stat itself, instead of some microscopic boost. 10 magic influence is the statx2, 5 atk influence is your ATK stat added to base damage, etc etc etc etc etc etc ET CETRA

I suggested the goliath patch because it bumps your max attribute % to 2000, so you can still set rank B to 1200% and rank A to 1600% if you want the traditional 200%/150%/100%/50%/0%/-100% damage attributes.


MODIFY: btw, RMVX/RUBY ftw
The trick Craze mentions has only been used in a few games.

I am always disappointed when looking in a game's element tab and seeing no creative uses of them. It's so much better, because the magic stat is awful by itself.
Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9159
This is a great topic and I am excited to post in it later once I do a bunch of stuff I have to do that I don't have to do like fill out job applications for stupid menial retail jobs I could have done in fucking high school that are entirely beneath my education level and are really, really embarassing. :'(
MOG: Go download Gutts' goliath patch for rm2k3 (or david patch, if you have a small screen). Set physical attack attributes (you know, where you set up BLUDGEON RANGED FIRE HOLY etc) to 400% at rank C and magic attacks to 800% at rank C. Voila! Now when you have your skills set to "5 magic influence" the damage gained from the INT stat will be equal to the stat itself, instead of some microscopic boost. 10 magic influence is the statx2, 5 atk influence is your ATK stat added to base damage, etc etc etc etc etc etc ET CETRA

Now everyone's doing hundreds-thousands of damage to each other. Uh, is this supposed to happen?
I tend to work on a tabletop RPG basis when it comes to stats and skills and stuff. Usually translating everything to die rolls.

Things like skills checks are always a top priority. Though I've also used the technique of automatic success at certain levels. Such as certain dialogue options appear when a certain skill is high enough. Or even certain locks are pickable once you've reached a certain skill level. The pro in the automatic success is that it removes one of the "grinding" elements (trying to lockpick a door until it opens), the con is that there's no random factor.

As for actual stats I tend to go with as basic as possible and expand when there's need for it. I liked the (again tabletop) division of Mental and Physical stats that you can then expand on (so that strength, agility and stamina are Physical and intelligence, willpower and wisdom are Mental. Charisma I suppose is a bit of both, though it could be split into two: Charisma (mental) and Appearance (physical), but by then you already have too much and I just want to go back to the two original ones)

If possible I like to have alignment/reputation meters, though I guess they aren't really stats. Though on the other hand they kinda are.

I don't do anything strange with stats. I just steal completely from tabletop RPGs.

Sex Appeal An invisible stat that alters the chance of an enemy hitting you
certainly you mean the chance of an enemy hitting on you?
Craze
why would i heal when i could equip a morningstar
15170
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2396.msg42491#msg42491 date=1226179064
MOG: Go download Gutts' goliath patch for rm2k3 (or david patch, if you have a small screen). Set physical attack attributes (you know, where you set up BLUDGEON RANGED FIRE HOLY etc) to 400% at rank C and magic attacks to 800% at rank C. Voila! Now when you have your skills set to "5 magic influence" the damage gained from the INT stat will be equal to the stat itself, instead of some microscopic boost. 10 magic influence is the statx2, 5 atk influence is your ATK stat added to base damage, etc etc etc etc etc etc ET CETRA

Now everyone's doing hundreds-thousands of damage to each other. Uh, is this supposed to happen?

Perpetual Moogle (4:41:49 PM): hello
Perpetual Moogle (4:42:29 PM): plz help its feld
CrazeTex (5:08:34 PM): Attribute trick?
Perpetual Moogle (5:08:55 PM): yes
CrazeTex (5:08:44 PM): Heh.
Perpetual Moogle (5:09:19 PM): Everyone is doing freakishly high damage to each other
CrazeTex (5:09:47 PM): Well, you have to balance out the stats to work. I don't suggest adding it to an existing project!
CrazeTex (5:09:58 PM): But if you really want to make it "normal" again--
CrazeTex (5:10:46 PM): try dividing all ATK+ objects and stats by three, and all skill base damages by 4-5.
CrazeTex (5:11:16 PM): That should return things to normalish levels. Also, remember that INT is going to be 4x as strong with the percentages I listed.
CrazeTex (5:11:31 PM): However, the nice thing is that it will do actual damage. =D
Perpetual Moogle (5:12:00 PM): Can you post an example in the topic for posterity?
Perpetual Moogle (5:12:05 PM): I know once I close this AIM box I
Perpetual Moogle (5:12:10 PM): am gonna forget it
CrazeTex (5:12:06 PM): ...what kind of example?
CrazeTex (5:12:20 PM): Like, an actual game?
Perpetual Moogle (5:12:41 PM): I mean just more or less repeat what you told me
CrazeTex (5:12:34 PM): Oh, okay.



SHINAN: I'll modify in a reply in a lil' bit.
harmonic
It's like toothpicks against a tank
4142
All the elemental percentages in LoD1 were very high, some around 1000% for the strongest affinity. Really made stats count.
Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9159
So that this is not 1,000 pages long, I will try and restrict this to the projects I currently have in development. Keep in mind I am expanding the topic way past how you have customized the algorythms (because, cough, I haven't yet) into all kinds of number crunching topics and my feelings on the use of elements. Ultimately, what I'm trying to work with you guys to create here is an overarching theory of STATS. Oh and this is going to be long and detailed so please, guys, discuss what I am saying, I would like to spur discussion and feedback. None of you fuckers tl;dr me.

Mage Duel
Probably my most mechanically intense game. Let's dive in. Oh yes, all of this is mildly spoilerish because half the fun of Mage Duel is figuring out how to 'sploit the mechanics without cheating.


Races: There is only one playable race in Mage Duel. Human(oid). Yawn.

Gender: Sexism alert. Gender makes a REAL MECHANICAL difference in Mage Duel, and a fairly significant one. Neither males or females are worse or better, just different. Men are sturdier (higher LIFE POINTS) but are less effective conduits for magical energy (lower MANA). Men are more willful (slightly higher ARCANE) but are less graceful (much lower SPEED). Women are more fragile (low LP), better conduits for magical energy (high MP) and are less willful (slightly lower ARCANE) but faster (much higher SPEED). You'll notice that the ultimate inequity of attribute importance (in a game called Mage Duel, your magic stat (ARCANE) is pretty king!) has been balanced by scaling the boosts and penalties accordingly and proportionally. 5 Points of Arcane is worth 10 Points of Speed, in this case.

Attributes: Okay, I personally feel that NAMES MAKE A MAJOR DIFFERENCE. Some explanation is in order, so, for example it is implicit in the names of statistics in Mage Duel that magic users, for the most part, don't give a shit about mundane weapons or armor. Oh, you have a sword, that's cute but I don't give a shit because I have fucking magic. Essentially, in a D&D sense, everyone has at least

Sidebar: Number size theory. The numbers in Mage Duel are right around RMVX's default numbers because it was my starter/test project for RMVX and I just took it and ran with it.

All distinctions between these and RMVX's default attributes are purely issues of flavor but I don't care I'm going to talk about them anyway because I think names and explanations are important.

LIFE POINTS (LP)
In other words, Hit Points, HP. How do they differ from Hit Points or Health? Purely on a philosophical level. Hit Points or Health measure the physical integrity of the body. Life Points are a magical abstraction, like all stats in Mage Duel, in this case they represent a kind of scale: at 0 you are dead, at full you are fully vibrant, healthy, and alive.

MANA:
MP. All characters have a generous amount and a way to recharge because running out of these in games where you are a caster really, really sucks. Most important for conjurers whose spells cost a metric fuckton of this; no one else SHOULD be running out under normal circumstances unless they're getting

Will Force replaces Attack:
It functions the same as "attack" which is to say it functions exactly like this:
(Normal Attacks
Damage = A's attack × 4 - B's defense × 2
If the results of the calculations would be a negative number, it will be made 0.)



Arcane is Magic Atk and Magic Def.
Probably the most important stat in all of Mage Duel, depending on your strategy. Everything depends on your strategy. Has an effect on the effectiveness of every healing or damaging spell you cast or have cast on you. This is the default functionality of RMVX, admitttedly but since physical attacks in Mage Duel are usually rendered at least somewhat inefficient by defensive or debuff spells or just the fact you're a wimpy caster, this stat is totally crucial.

There is rhyme/reason and a rationale to how much Arcane effects every spell from each school/class, but I won't get into that because we'd be here forever.

Magic Shield replaces Defense.
Once again, a FLAVOR distinction, but an important one. Wizards can't be bothered to wear fucking plate mail and carry around tower shields. Fuck that shit. The implication of this skill's very name is that this stat represents the strength of the MAGICAL FORCEFIELD around your character at all times. To clarify, this magical forcefield only effects physical attacks. Arcane is used to resist spells.

In D&D terms, DEFLECTION BONUS.

Speed is a more accurate name than agility.
Effects how fast you go in combat and THAT'S IT since there is no escaping in Mage Duel. At first glance, the least important stat, but NOT REALLY. Its importance depends entirely on the situation. For instance, if you're just two evokers slinging FlareS at each other, the order makes little difference. But if you and your opponent both have a fight-ending, FUCK-YOU spell (like Seal Evil or Curse) set to go off first turn, you BETTER hope yours gets off first. In situations like this, speed becomes the only stat matters. Good thing there's a fair number of items that manipulate it (and every other stat) in Mage Duel.

Also interesting is VX's option to cause various spells to be cast faster or slower than others (by penalizing or bonusing speed) which is used quite heavily in Mage Duel. Hence, speed kind of either needs to be the uber stat or a dump stat for Conjurers because all of their spells are going off at a -a bunch to speed anyway.

Classes/Elements and their relationships:

Classes in Mage Duel have class features like classes in D&D. Their class features always involve resistance to status effects and elements. Also some elements are used for various TRICK purposes detailed below.

Evoker:
The big difference is that Evokers are resistant to Fire, Ice, and Thunder, the basic elements which make up at lest 50% of the damage dealt out in Mage Duel. This is VERY POWERFUL and likewise it makes odd elements like Wind and Water more powerful. Evokers are the only class that can also be damaged normally by Holy Magic (because they're BLACK MAGES) but they aren't super weak to it like undead creatures and demons.

Healer:
The big difference is that healers are 150% "weak" to HEALING (the attribute all healing magic is) meaning they get more healing for their buck than anyone else. They're also slightly resistant to poison. (They're resistant to all debuff status effects and very susceptible to all buffs, but I think the latter is probably redundant since buffs are all set to "ignore defense".) They are also HEALED by Holy Magic (Illusionist and Conjurer are just immune to it).

Illusionist
Very resistant to all mental status effects, and also resistant to the (rarely if ever used) mental element damage.

Conjurer:
They are the most powerful class overall in the early game, and as a trade off, they have no special bennies.

I'd like to point out that the class and gender perks are extra important because they (like bonuses for invisible "equipment") are applied to all enemy mages too. It is a very level playing field.

Holy Magic: Devastates evil/undead enemies, damages evokers normally, everyone else is immune.

Banishing: Instantly destroys all summoned creatures in one hit and has absolutely no effect on anyone else, at least, that was the plan.


Phew that was exhausting. I'll detail the stats for my other projects later if I feel like it. :)

Some of you guys are confusing stats and elements, by the way.
Explanation:

Stats/Attributes:
Strength
Constitution
Dexterity
Intelligence
Wisdom
Charisma
Body
Mind
Speed
Cyber Affinity
Purity
Health
Life Points
Hit Points
MaxHP
MaxMP
Attack
Defense
Spirit
Agility

Elements:
Force
Slashing
Piercing
Bashing
Bow
Whip
Mind
Absorbing
Fire
Ice
Thunder
Earth
Wind
Healing
Darkness
Holy
Summoning
Banish
Poison

Status effects are their whole own category.

LouisCyphre
can't make a bad game if you don't finish any games
4523
My Western really doesn't have a lot of statistics, that comes as a mixed bag sometimes...

Statistics

HP
A measure of physical harm a character can take before they are unable to escape a fatal wound. Think of it like this: As a character has higher HP, they take their blows - and bullet wounds - without slowing down as much as someone with less HP. Lower HP means you're an easier target to kill. Restoring HP is analogous to patching up an ally so that they can move more freely - becoming a harder target to kill.

Ammo (MP)
Varies based on weapon carried. As an obvious simplification, all weapons of the same category have the same ammo capacity. Thus, all revolvers carry 6 shots, all shotguns carry 2, etc.
Skills that consume Ammo often take a percentage. Some only take 1 - making them usable with any gun - and I'm trying to work a way to make multi-hit skills pay one for every foe struck.

Attack
Measures the amount of harm a character can inflict to a target. Used only with those skills that affect one's enemies.

Toughness
Measure of how well a character copes with pain, and how resilient a character is to damage, poison, bleeding, and the like.

Intellect
Measure of a character's scholarly brains, not intelligence overall. Affects the effectiveness of medical abilities, and the accuracy of certain skills.

Speed
How quickly a character can discharge their firearm, reach a comrade to provide assistance, etc.

Gender
Only affects the skills Charm (sever attack reduction) and Heartbreaker (berserk).

Conditions

Dead
The character is mortally wounded and unable to continue living for much longer. affliction of this upon a posse member results in game over.

Jammed
The character's firearm is jammed and cannot be discharged. Takes time to unjam. Other actions not requiring a firearm can still be taken. Obviously doesn't affect those with melee weaponry or bare hands.

Bleeding
The character is bleeding profusely and loses a % of HP each turn. Easily cured by staunching the flow of blood with bandaging or binding.

Poison
The character has venom in their system and takes a set amount of damage each turn. Note that for purposes of mechanics, this does not refer to lead poisoning, otherwise every attack with a firearm would inflict poison. Instead, this refers to such hazards as rattlesnake venom, Indian arrows or bullets coated in toxins expressly for poison. (There is a skill called Lead Poisoning, assume it means "bullets coated with a lethal toxin").

Anger
The character is not thinking rationally/is caught up in the heat of combat, resorting to primarily physical attacks to harm the foe. The character does not follow orders or strategize. Note that there are two identical conditions, Anger ? and Anger ?. These are identical to Anger except for their causes and who they affect.

Focused
This is a positive status effect caused only by Lera's Innate Skills Concentrate and Group Effort. It causes the posse to evade physical damage for a moderate amount of time.

Delay
A character receives this upon being hit by a particularly forceful blow. It causes their next turn to arrive much later than normal. A character with Delay status cannot receive the condition again until it is gone, i.e. A delayd combattant will get at least a chance to respond.

Great
They character is bursting with vitality and vigor. They receive a percent of their maximum HP each turn. Gained by not using the character for a couple weeks, or from certain positive story events.

Tired
The character is fatigued and has trouble maintaining themselves in combat. Their stats are perpetually halved until they get the rest they need. Comes from overuse of the character is missions.

Sick
The character is ill to the point that they cannot leave the inn to go on missions. Such characters are unavailable for use in missions until they return to Normal status.

Buffs and Debuffs
All stats except HP and Ammo are open to halving or doubling. This is universal - NO ENEMY IDS IMMUNE TO STAT MODIFIERS.
There are three types of stat modifiers, ATK, DEF, and SPD. Each of these has a positive modifier (ATK ?) and a negative modifier (ATK ?). These may both be in effect at the same time - i.e. a character with ATK ? can also have ATK ? active. this is balanced by the fact that there are numerous ways to remove buffs and debuffs.

Attributes
These have little bearing on gameplay, and are used mostly to ensure certain skills can only be performed with certain gun classes. However, there is affinity attributes, such as vs. Animal. This is inherent to the skill Poach, which does quadruple damage to animals such as bears, deer, and snakes. Also, they are used to ensure certain attacks don't work when logic dictates that they shouldn't, i.e one cannot punch a hot-air balloon in mid-flight from the ground, etc.

*ugh*
harmonic
It's like toothpicks against a tank
4142
Some of these are actually pretty imaginative.

I was totally expecting someone to say this:

-------------

VITALITY: The amount of life force you have. When your Vitality reaches zero, you die.

MIGHT: Your ability to swing weapons and inflict damage. The higher your Might, the more damage you do with physical attacks.

DURABILITY: Your ability to absorb physical damage. This increases with better armor.

ARCANE MASTERY: The measurement of your magic power and magic defense. Higher Arcane Mastery means more magic damage dealt to enemies, and less dealt to you.

QUICKNESS: Your speed, reflexes, and dexterity. Higher quickness gives you more dodge, and affects turn order and ability to land a critical hit.

--------------
Pages: 1