AMERICAN EXCEPTIONALISM: I DRANK THE KOOL-AID. DID YOU?

author=Holbert link=topic=2433.msg44051#msg44051 date=1226757661
Sure I can say that. While French nationalism is indeed a media stereotype, well, stereotypes exist for a reason -- there is usually some truth to it.

I'd have to disagree somewhat with that statement; after all, there's no conclusive study that race has anything to do with penis size, for example. Kinsey's tests concluded "...the difference between Caucasian and African American penis size found in these tests was insignificant. "

Mexicans do most of the farming jobs in the Southwest, and they also tend to be hired for the menial, low-wage work (which is mostly physical in nature). Most of the ones i've been able to work with have been pretty hard workers. This would contradict the stereotype that they are lazy, sombrero wearing people who doze under trees most of the time.

Stereotypes are idiotic, is the point I am trying to make. Having beliefs based on stereotypes, well... not exactly the best way to go, either.

Having been to France and had the opportunity to have some interesting conversations with some of em', I can say with a certain degree of confidence that they exhibit just about the same degree of nationalism that WE do.

@Holbert : What I wanted to mean with my post is that you cannot really know what the population think just by judging from the media. Okay, Sarkozy was elected so for sure the governement is leading the country in a righty way. But what it is to say "France is nationalist?" Sarkozy was elected with 53,06% voices against the left-wing candidate, and today he is strongly criticized from the left and the right wings. Of course, media don't show what the opposition do. Yes, of course, media show things. But they don't show other things that happen too. Also, nationalism can take several shapes. In France you will not see a politician wearing a french flag on his jacket. You will not see blue-white-red colors everywhere during elections. You will not see a politician saying "we're the best nation in the world" (and it seams to be, in the US, the same speech for the democrates as well as for the republicans, from what the french media show me - actually, if I had to sum up what TV showed me during the recent elections in the US, I would say "democrat and republican people in the US are nationalist" - and I'm certainly wrong! I'm pretty sure I'm wrong. But this is what TV channels showed me). I would say that, for what concern the word nationalism, in France it's more linked to institutions, to the Republic, not to the "people" (historical figures...). I'm probably not clear, no matter.

About the veil, it's a matter of secularism (secularity?). France, since the Revolution, has put the religion on "taboo". You even could say that religion is banned of our schools, in the politics' speech, etc. Our president don't swear on the Bible, etc. That affair of veil at school was here a long time before Sarkozy's election in 2007.

But the subject is not here. To me, the problem is that there are people to say "us" and "them". "Our boys, their bad guys". It's a narrow-minded vision of the world. Of course it's temptating to regard "our" respective nations as "great" nations. But what's in a nation? A complex construction over centuries including migrations, wars, crisis... US people? Historical migrants. French people? A mix of several gaulish, celtic, roman peoples. Why should a country refuse to a man to choose the country he wants to live in? If he pays the taxes, where's the problem? :P There's nothing more arbitrary than being born in THAT country and not THAT other country. It's all about determinism. You have no choice at all...

No, I meant various scientific studies.

This topic:

Is America the best?
a) Yes.
b) YES.
c) Maybe.
d) You're scaring me.
e) Conferred historian.
f) Waffles.

Ody I would respond to you but I have no idea what you just said.

author=Asalieri link=topic=2433.msg44085#msg44085 date=1226769734
Having been to France and had the opportunity to have some interesting conversations with some of em', I can say with a certain degree of confidence that they exhibit just about the same degree of nationalism that WE do.

That was my point exactly, Asalieri. I wasn't saying it was a bad thing, I was just wondering why America, China and Japan were being picked on for "scary" nationalism.

and how does g) come into picture this time? ???

Just for the record, i'm venezuelan. I won't post a long rant about The u.s. or a good and detailed debate as holb's or some of you guys (Because i'm too lazy to do so) but i gotta say i really agree with both asalieri and mcgee:

Personally, I believe we Americans shouldn't police the world anymore. We should take care of our own a lot better than we are currently doing, and stop worrying so much about what country is likely to attack us at every turn. As unlikely a hope as it is, i'd like to see more of our jobs come back home to us, where we need em'.

If not actual capital I ISOLATIONISM, what I meant to say is that we can no longer police the world, build an empire, or control other countries' ideologies. During the Bush Administration I feel like every country in the world has wanted us to mind our own business and it probably would not be a bad idea to take heed of that. This country is fraught with its own problems and this isn't the 20th century.

It is a new century and we need to first and foremost TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN SHIT.

I can agree to that for sure specially from this side of the world. :P

author=Holbert link=topic=2433.msg44653#msg44653 date=1226889102
zomg Chavez

YES. =_=

I canstand any insults to the country. I get mad and worked up whenever I see a flag flown improperly. Is this good or bad?