[MAFIA] SPY VS. MAFIA II DAY 3

For what it's worth, I don't think chasing Milk is productive because this is likely to be lylo.

It never once mentioned a traitor or gray agent in the Role PM.

It did, however, have Piano mention in the agent chat at the beginning to "not reveal our identities" and "you have no idea who you can trust not even each other" stuff.

author=Jeroen_Sol
Assuming Odd is telling the truth and the last agent is gray, then only 1 scum should be left. So while mislynching today could make us lose, lynching correctly today could make us win the game.

Yes, exactly this.

author=psy_wombats
The term "gray agent" would be important because it would be a term only known to non vanilla players. In the comics, the character is the gray spy, vs gray agent.

Or it's a thing I (in no special chats at all) said that then got repeated. I'll ask again, if someone repeating that who was scum is suspicious, then why did you use it too?

author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK

author=AlaskanEmily
Also based on what Odd said happened in agent chat, Milk isn't the other agent.

actively hunting for who the agents are, huh.

Or knowing who is guaranteed not to be an agent means we won't accidentally lynch an agent.

I'm this close to wanting to lynch Cave now. He's been making statements and then outright refusing to follow up on them, and keeps saying "I have this excellent explanation of why this is a genius play which the margins of this chat are too narrow to contain". To be fair the only other game I played with him his style was erratic at best, but this doesn't feel like he's really trying to solve things, more trying to find ways start trains on random people.

none of this is going to be a slam dunk because apparently the scumteam don't know who each other are, but I'm assuming they're still trying to find who each other are, and would be making attempts to not scumhunt/interact with each other. they might have also just brazenly identified eachother immediately, who knows. for similar reasons this is going to be more barebones as to not give scum ideas, and I won't be bringing certain things up unless I think we're about to execute someone who's town. So basically I'm going to be focusing on what I think is the strongest link here.

author=demonlord5000
AE is weird, but AE is always weird. Given he was like this the last game too, I'm more inclined to think he's town.

pretty wishy-washy reasoning for townreading someone. scum are forced to make fake reads on both town and scum, I can't say this means anything on its own. demonlord never goes after alaskanemily but I don't actually think that points to anything either.

author=AlaskanEmily
Ah, OK. I had thought the agents were basically just masons, and we needed at least one to stay alive. I didn't realize there could be more to them than that, I thought only items granted abilities.

This seems to imply a level of awareness about how items worked that...uh...was this common knowledge at this point? I don't think so.

author=AlaskanEmily
@Demon: I don't think there can be nolynch, even in a tie it becomes a coin flip.

I'll try to reread and rethink things knowing Fomar is town thanks to the battle tuba. I might or might not be able to really devote much more time to this before D1 ends though.

I am OK with a demon lynch too, I guess. I guess I'm also in disagreement with most people about whether Ozzy is scummy, but I'm not feeling anywhere near as confident in Demon as I was last game.

I'm quoting this because this is the first time (pretty far into day 1) that AE mentions demonlord at all. the read given is vague and without specifics. Just, not feeling confident. It doesn't read as very genuine to me. I actually don't know how to parse the part about ozzy r/n.

author =AlaskanEmily
Alright, I'll put a vote on demon. I said before he seems a bit different now. I'm not convinced he is definitely scum, but sadly that's the best read I have.

I do agree the bandwagoning isn't a good look, and the way it was phrased was unfortunate at best. He also keeps ignoring the no-nolynch part of the rules, which I guess could just be that he hasn't noticed it, but it also means his reason sounds like it could be an excuse. Especially since his style was usually to be a tad focused on rules, and so you would expect that he would have really read the first post.

#lynch Demon

this vote doesn't mean much since plurality meant demonlord was going to die anyway. moreover, the reason for voting is bad. demonlord didn't have every single mechanic memorized....

So? How is that inherently scummy? Why would a scum demonlord be more likely to forget a rule than a town demonlord? That's just an indictment of "Well, demonlord made a mistake." It's like voting someone for making a typo or something.

author=Jeroen_Sol
I don't think there is a very big deal either. I don't think Psy is scum, and I think Emily's demon vote is too wishy-washy to be a bus for town cred.

Scum not knowing each other's identities makes the concept of bussing a lot less important. What's more useful is looking at bad reasons for voting. that said, scum are wishy-washy all the time. it's like, their number one defining characteristic.


this isn't a very good case but I think it's the best one here now. Also, I don't like this post.

We will lynch him if it gets too bad (arguably it is). Milk needs to read the topic and then say something useful. Not posting is not helpful if you are town, and generally a pretty basic scum play.

Also based on what Odd said happened in agent chat, Milk isn't the other agent.

Besides the pointing out of who isn't an agent, if milk was scum, wouldn't you think their scumfriends would be hollering at them in the scumchat? Especially since people view not posting as scummy (thus making it a pretty bad idea for scum to do)

also, there's a lot of mechanics BS and talking about gray agents or whatever instead of scumhunting.

if you think i've been making statements without backing them up and starting random trains on all of the 3 random people i voted, one of whom was scum and would have definitely not died if not for me, show your work. maybe I'l be convinced.


I have a gut feeling on lockez atm too. I need to reread him.

#cancel

Suspect list is thin. LockeZ behaved extremely town-LockeZ when he townread cave then refused to say why that I have to treat him as town. Jero I read as hard town earlier but I don't remember why, would have to reread, but I'm still really inclined to think he's town. I don't think scum-Cave would kill demon.

Leaving Milk (absolutely unreadable), cap (townish afaict) and AE (will reread her stuff at some point, it's frustrating that demon was probably telling the truth that scum didn't know each other)

author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
also, there's a lot of mechanics BS and talking about gray agents or whatever instead of scumhunting.

Obviously you're right, it is no use figuring out if we are lylo or not, or trying to figure out what different roles would do in different scenarios.

author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
this vote doesn't mean much since plurality meant demonlord was going to die anyway. moreover, the reason for voting is bad. demonlord didn't have every single mechanic memorized....

So? How is that inherently scummy? Why would a scum demonlord be more likely to forget a rule than a town demonlord? That's just an indictment of "Well, demonlord made a mistake." It's like voting someone for making a typo or something.

A scum demonlord would be more likely to lie about forgetting a rule, or lie about something to make an argument.

And demonlord was wrong about more than he was in the previous games. And he was scum. And I voted for him. I actually was tepidly for lynching him because he seemed "off" compared with previous games, and that must be scum. So therefor I am definitely scum? I noted he was getting the rules wrong (on purpose or not) more than he did in previous games, and that seemed odd given how he had played before. We can't even be sure if my reasoning was right or not, and I noted how my reasoning was not a smoking gun.

I would think that at best that should mean my vote for him was neutral.

OK, so an example of not following up:

author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
this reply doesn't really address what I said. maybe I need a translator.

What didn't my response address? I answered all the points other than how I wasn't obsessed with mechanics. Would you like me to tell you why I'm not obsessed with mechanics?

I kept asking what it was you wanted me to talk about, and you never explained.

Some examples (not in order) of never explaining some deductions you had that I would surely agree are brilliant, if I ever learned what they were:

https://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/24744/?post=889608#post889608

author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK

author=demonlord5000
I wouldn't normally do this but I'm going to sleep soon and I probably won't be back before the day ends. He's suspicious enough to warrant a vote at least.

scum. someone else make the case for me. nap time.

https://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/24744/?post=889500#post889500

author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
that's wrong for several reasons I won't get into. bye.

https://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/24744/?post=889560#post889560

author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
I just realized something terrible about this setup

And finally an example of BOTH AT ONCE:

author=CAVE_DOG_IS_BACK
I didn't follow up on it because it wasn't evolving into anything and the archfiend demonlord made his presence known to me.

I'll have more to say about this later, when i am not asleep, but the specifics of the saxophone don't make sense to me. there are several possible explanations. that i will go into l. later. hunrgy.

That's what I'm talking about.

Also you can rest assured that I have even more brilliant things to say but my left ear is itchy therefor I won't tell you what they are.

BTW, that was a sincere request, Emily. Right now, I'm leaning towards you not operating in good faith, both because I think you are only expressing an interest in voting me out of self-preservation because I have implied that you are scum, and because I don't see much in the way of content in your posts that seems particularly concerned with finding scum/bad vote reasons. There's a lot of emphasis on figuring the game out, but this is a game where scum have to do that too.

By process of elimination, Emily is town, I think I would have to go after Jeroen next.

Cave: To be clear, I am learning towards voting for you because repeatedly you haven't seemed to like to clarify things you've said, or explain your reasoning. If you want scumreads, that reads scum to me.