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SEPHIROTH IN A WHOLE NEW LIGHT, HOMESLICES. *ALSO DISCUSSION TOPIC, SEE INSIDE*
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Feldschlacht IV
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CloseSo I was dicking around on the Internet and I found some fanfic profile on Sephiroth. Now, let me say something. I like FF7, and I think Sephiroth is relatively pretty cool, but until Crisis Core, where they actually gave the guy a personality and made him seem like a human person, I was always unimpressed with Sephiroth. In FF7 itself, he didn't really have too much of a personality and I always thought that besides for the iconic SEPHIROTH thing that's hard to forget, his personality was pretty forgettable. Until I stumbled on this unofficial profile that someone wrote.
http://ffmux.savingthrow.org/wiki/index.php?title=Sephiroth
Now keep in mind that most of the stuff in there was made up by the creator and isn't canon in the FF7 Compilation universe. If you're curious as to what's canon and what was made up by the author, feel free to ask me. However, the Personality section is what proved to be the most interesting of the article. Not only does it not contradict what's already established in the FF7 games (except the names Ivy and Laguna who do not exist in FF7 and was made up by the creator), the Personality section was surprisingly accurate given what we DO see of Sephiroth, like his Crisis Core and a lot of his actions there, why he hates Cloud, and his actions in the series in general.
So that got me thinking. This article (although Crisis Core helped a lot) turned my perception of Sephiroth's personality from a generic 'HA HA HA' to someone who was a man that had a certain personality that even stayed with him as he fell from grace in Crisis Core, became the villain in FF7, and cheesily came back in the cheesy AC movie that I thought was really cheesy. The article did a better job of establishing his personality than Square did.
Now the point of this topic. How will YOU convey personality to important characters in your games? Basically, this whole ordeal taught me how someone with a really bland personality at first glance could be reexamined and really given a new life. How can we as game developers avoid the pithole of making boring, one sided characters, and how can we improve our skills so our antagonists, protagonists, and bystanders in our stories have human like personalities and reasons for how they act? Is it possible to look at our stories, and look at the most boring (important) characters, and breath new life in them? I mean, if it can happen to me for what I thought was one of the most boring antagonists out there, we all can make sure our characters in our games are interesting, right?
Also, keep in mind, only the PERSONALITY section of that article is really canon. The rest of it (although interesting), although nothing in there really goes AGAINST the FF7 canon, is added on by the creator.
http://ffmux.savingthrow.org/wiki/index.php?title=Sephiroth
Now keep in mind that most of the stuff in there was made up by the creator and isn't canon in the FF7 Compilation universe. If you're curious as to what's canon and what was made up by the author, feel free to ask me. However, the Personality section is what proved to be the most interesting of the article. Not only does it not contradict what's already established in the FF7 games (except the names Ivy and Laguna who do not exist in FF7 and was made up by the creator), the Personality section was surprisingly accurate given what we DO see of Sephiroth, like his Crisis Core and a lot of his actions there, why he hates Cloud, and his actions in the series in general.
So that got me thinking. This article (although Crisis Core helped a lot) turned my perception of Sephiroth's personality from a generic 'HA HA HA' to someone who was a man that had a certain personality that even stayed with him as he fell from grace in Crisis Core, became the villain in FF7, and cheesily came back in the cheesy AC movie that I thought was really cheesy. The article did a better job of establishing his personality than Square did.
Now the point of this topic. How will YOU convey personality to important characters in your games? Basically, this whole ordeal taught me how someone with a really bland personality at first glance could be reexamined and really given a new life. How can we as game developers avoid the pithole of making boring, one sided characters, and how can we improve our skills so our antagonists, protagonists, and bystanders in our stories have human like personalities and reasons for how they act? Is it possible to look at our stories, and look at the most boring (important) characters, and breath new life in them? I mean, if it can happen to me for what I thought was one of the most boring antagonists out there, we all can make sure our characters in our games are interesting, right?
Also, keep in mind, only the PERSONALITY section of that article is really canon. The rest of it (although interesting), although nothing in there really goes AGAINST the FF7 canon, is added on by the creator.
This is a weakness of mine. But lately, I've just been trying to think about "what would this person say if they were type X personality?"
It's easy to fall into the trap where all the important characters start sounding like the game creator, with slight differences. Makes it really bland and awful.
It's easy to fall into the trap where all the important characters start sounding like the game creator, with slight differences. Makes it really bland and awful.
Scribble
1
Usually, my characters start off as nothing but one personality type/archetype. Then I think of possible flaws for that character, and what would make them angry or sad or happy, excited, etc. then apply those to more complicated situations. A lot of JRPG characters seem to be one exaggerated personality the whole way through, at least until a major event occurs (Their past is revealed, they realise that they love the protagonist, etc.). The really interesting characters are ones that are full of conflicting characteristics.
Also, the 'fish out of water' scenario is quite good for creating interesting characters. Some creators/writers keep their boring characters in environments/situations where their 'one exaggerated personality type' can prevail, i.e. the badass villain always being one step ahead.
And I agree with harmonic's point about all characters sounding like the game creator. That's definitely a problem I have when it comes to writing dialogue.
Also, the 'fish out of water' scenario is quite good for creating interesting characters. Some creators/writers keep their boring characters in environments/situations where their 'one exaggerated personality type' can prevail, i.e. the badass villain always being one step ahead.
And I agree with harmonic's point about all characters sounding like the game creator. That's definitely a problem I have when it comes to writing dialogue.
Neophyte
155
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2560.msg47175#msg47175 date=1227682110Aaaand this is where it goes bad.
The article did a better job of establishing his personality than Square did.
If you (the creator) cannot portray your characters personality in a game and must rely on other peoples articles or things that are not in the actual GAME to find out about their personality, chances are you didn't do a good job. Nobody except the hardcore fans will even look at this.
It's extremely tough to make memorable characters in a game. I think the key to it all is creating a bond between the player and the characters in the game. Changing the dialogue is not the only way to turn a boring character into someone interesting. If you can create individual conflicts that are unique to that specific character and have it bond with the player as well, you have a good chance of making things interesting.
Asalieri
200
the topic has too much Sephiroth in it. It's hard to read the rest with the blinding
haze of Sephirothness... Perhaps if the Sephiroth quotient was lower I'd be able to
properly respond to the real subject at hand?
haze of Sephirothness... Perhaps if the Sephiroth quotient was lower I'd be able to
properly respond to the real subject at hand?
kayzorkross
25
I always did find Sephiroth to be quite human; he was an artifical human experiment and yet it was his human side that drove him to madness. I could empathise with why he felt so betrayed. I also think he is such a memorable villain because he barely got much 'screen time' he was always 'just beyond your grasp' in the game and yet his presence was always felt and it was bloody terrifying. He wasn't the type of person to open up to people (why would he?) and so you didn't get a feel for who he was but I felt that was a realistic portrayal of such a character. At the risk of sounding like a fan boy or something I think the writers did a good job.
Anyways onto the topic at hand... I have a huge problem with some of the amateur RPGs I play regarding characters because their personalities are expressed through dialogue but their actions then completely contradict it. A person's personality dictates reaction, manner, belief, interests, relationships with other characters, attitudes and a range of other things and this should always be shown. I don't like using the aforementioned personality archetypes because while a psychological theory that is practised commonly they are merely guidelines and I personally believe personality is far too multi-faceted for such an approach.
Basically my process is too describe my character's personality first. I then list the main events that occur in the storyline that will affect this character and also characters they will develop some kind of close relation to. I then imagine myself as that character and...
"If <Character A>'s brother were to die... how would she feel, how would she react, would her attitudes/beliefs change?"
"If <Character B> saved <Character A> from drowning... how would <Character A> feel about B, how would she react, would her attitudes/beliefs about people like B change?"
Etc etc.
Anyways onto the topic at hand... I have a huge problem with some of the amateur RPGs I play regarding characters because their personalities are expressed through dialogue but their actions then completely contradict it. A person's personality dictates reaction, manner, belief, interests, relationships with other characters, attitudes and a range of other things and this should always be shown. I don't like using the aforementioned personality archetypes because while a psychological theory that is practised commonly they are merely guidelines and I personally believe personality is far too multi-faceted for such an approach.
Basically my process is too describe my character's personality first. I then list the main events that occur in the storyline that will affect this character and also characters they will develop some kind of close relation to. I then imagine myself as that character and...
"If <Character A>'s brother were to die... how would she feel, how would she react, would her attitudes/beliefs change?"
"If <Character B> saved <Character A> from drowning... how would <Character A> feel about B, how would she react, would her attitudes/beliefs about people like B change?"
Etc etc.
One problem with how characters interact in several games is that they interact with the main character but not each other. When there's no disconcernable relationship between most non-main characters then characters are just going to feel even flatter because they aren't acting human. People aren't loners and each have their own beliefs and these affect how they interact with others who have their own beliefs and ideologies. One character could act different if he was talking to the main character or some other guy which helps develop that character. Interaction is important for showing a character, and RPGs usually have a lot of characters that can interact. Exploit this!
GRS, have you played KOTOR (or any of the other Bioware games)? I think it was the first game that really tried to have character interact between party members and still have some meaningful gameplay effects to it. I liked it.
Clest
0
GRS said something important (which I always say in topics about characters). It is funny how characters hardly interact between thenselves or how everything seems to be centered around main character.
An interesting game which breaks that IMO is Septerra Core, where you have characters talking to each other and you can chose who talks to an NPCs and npcs react different to each character. (try to get info on the docks with a poor sailor using the nuble woman, it is damn funny, she expects him to reply nicely while she treats him like shit, then if you use a more regular character the guy might say something :P).
An interesting game which breaks that IMO is Septerra Core, where you have characters talking to each other and you can chose who talks to an NPCs and npcs react different to each character. (try to get info on the docks with a poor sailor using the nuble woman, it is damn funny, she expects him to reply nicely while she treats him like shit, then if you use a more regular character the guy might say something :P).
Just the KOTOR games (well, not KOTOR2 but I've seen the entire game with a lot of its cut content so I think I'm better not playing it) and I agree that they're good examples of character interaction. Something I liked is that the party didn't get along like a happy merry band. Some party members didn't like or outright hated other party members. Or in other words, they acted like real people.
I liked it too. Too bad KOTOR 2 got snuffed like it did
I liked it too. Too bad KOTOR 2 got snuffed like it did
Septerra Core was a pretty terrible game - mostly thanks to bugs.
Interesting at times, though, especially since party members might attack each other in battle if they don't get along.
Interesting at times, though, especially since party members might attack each other in battle if they don't get along.
Clest
0
Never found a bug in the game O.o
Another plus is that it has in map battles like Chrono Trigger ;) And the mechanic chick was cute :D
Another plus is that it has in map battles like Chrono Trigger ;) And the mechanic chick was cute :D
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