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CHALLENGING THE STANDARDS
Posts
McDohl
120
McDohl
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CloseI hate that monsters drop world currency. I do. I think it's irresponsible for socialized, intelligent people and governments to depend on financial solvency on magical, quasi-random cash from terrors that are trying to ruin civilization. More reasonably, it doesn't make any sense; why does the blue slime have 5G anyway? Why do bosses usually have significantly larger wallets?
There are ways around this. The latest version of my game has implemented an "sell item drops for cash" system instead of the magical G dropping system. This, however, has led me to ask myself, "well, why exactly do these guys in shops want to buy Blue Slime Goo? They've assigned a value to it after all." So then I added an alchemy/synthesis store, created the idea of pawn shops, and tied it all to a story point of a mercantile union that works with the governments to provide necessary standards for both themselves and the people they provide their service.
I have obsessive-compulsive disorder when it comes to these things. A capital city, for example, is not going to have a giant mountain range, a massive ocean, or some other kind of progress-impeding obstacle in the way of its port town - there should be direct access. Even if you're the mighty hero off to save the world, people are going to be very reluctant about letting you into their house, let alone ransack it for potions and swords. What billionaire maniac is two steps ahead of you and leaving conveniently placed treasure chests with gradually progressing equipment in them as you adventure?
A lot of what I criticize, however, is expected with your standard RPG. You go to the next area, get better loot, get better gear, level up, rob homes, talk to kings, and it's all matter of fact. It's what happens.
So, my question to you, denizens of RMN: At what point do, or should, you let go of a game and let the fantasy aspect take over?
There are ways around this. The latest version of my game has implemented an "sell item drops for cash" system instead of the magical G dropping system. This, however, has led me to ask myself, "well, why exactly do these guys in shops want to buy Blue Slime Goo? They've assigned a value to it after all." So then I added an alchemy/synthesis store, created the idea of pawn shops, and tied it all to a story point of a mercantile union that works with the governments to provide necessary standards for both themselves and the people they provide their service.
I have obsessive-compulsive disorder when it comes to these things. A capital city, for example, is not going to have a giant mountain range, a massive ocean, or some other kind of progress-impeding obstacle in the way of its port town - there should be direct access. Even if you're the mighty hero off to save the world, people are going to be very reluctant about letting you into their house, let alone ransack it for potions and swords. What billionaire maniac is two steps ahead of you and leaving conveniently placed treasure chests with gradually progressing equipment in them as you adventure?
A lot of what I criticize, however, is expected with your standard RPG. You go to the next area, get better loot, get better gear, level up, rob homes, talk to kings, and it's all matter of fact. It's what happens.
So, my question to you, denizens of RMN: At what point do, or should, you let go of a game and let the fantasy aspect take over?
Mine basically never do. And never have. Only humanoid enemies or sentient monsters drop currency in like 90% of my games.
Monsters dropping currency is an easy, if cliche way to reward the player for fighting. I'd MUCH prefer something that ties into the fantasy world and actually makes sense like what McDohl is doing, but having monsters carry around a pocketful of gold isn't necessarily a bad thing.
It does make sense if you consider it a way to make the game more user-friendly.
How, you ask? Simple.
Let's say you go the way of FF12 and make all monsters drop loot, which the player then has to bring to a merchant and sell for money.
Gold-dropping enemies make it all an automated process. You don't have to approach a store and then clickity click and then click some more just to sell all the junk you've been carrying. It is assumed that your characters take the loot and sell it automatically, and for the sake of convenience you get your money right after slaying a monster.
TBH I prefer the old-fashioned way. I really HATED the loot aspect of FF12 (and some other RPGs), because I never knew how much money I REALLY had ATM, and whether to stay and grind some more. Plus even if I killed an enemy, I was never sure how valuable a loot (if any) I would get.
In the end, I guess I really don't care if slimes drop gold.
How, you ask? Simple.
Let's say you go the way of FF12 and make all monsters drop loot, which the player then has to bring to a merchant and sell for money.
Gold-dropping enemies make it all an automated process. You don't have to approach a store and then clickity click and then click some more just to sell all the junk you've been carrying. It is assumed that your characters take the loot and sell it automatically, and for the sake of convenience you get your money right after slaying a monster.
TBH I prefer the old-fashioned way. I really HATED the loot aspect of FF12 (and some other RPGs), because I never knew how much money I REALLY had ATM, and whether to stay and grind some more. Plus even if I killed an enemy, I was never sure how valuable a loot (if any) I would get.
In the end, I guess I really don't care if slimes drop gold.
Clest
0
My my McDohl, we suffer from the same symptoms.
However in my game civilization is more advanced so they don´t need to survive on killing savage animals, in fact savage animals are free only in areas where humans don´t even visit often. For food and organic materials, there are farms.
My point is that I find killing animal life for exp and model anti-ecologic, I think it is far more correct to terminate inteligent bandits who do bad stuff consciously then to butch ramdom animals.
So in my game you hardly face wild monsters, most of the time, the monsters you do fight are mutations who broke out from labs and even so, only to control crisis. Most of the time you spend fighting humanoids or machines really. Monster´s might drop itens but it is usually cheap stuff. However you may be rewarded later for saving a village from mutations with something nice.
As for the main point: Standards
I don´t mind games like Hero´s Realm (yes Kentona, I don´t hate you or your game XD) who try to hold to standards INTENTIONALLY in a way where it is made to be fun. But I do have a beef with ppl who does things without thinking and claim "but Final Fantasy did that, so it is fine!" no it is not fucking fine unless you find YOUR OWN reason to note why in hell do that work on your game since your game is not Final Fantasy.
It is not because companies are lazy and just want to rip your money with anything uber flawed that you should follow in and limit your game to their shitty standards.
Each game is diferent and things work different for each game, just note the differences between McDohl concept and mine around the monster drop issue.
However in my game civilization is more advanced so they don´t need to survive on killing savage animals, in fact savage animals are free only in areas where humans don´t even visit often. For food and organic materials, there are farms.
My point is that I find killing animal life for exp and model anti-ecologic, I think it is far more correct to terminate inteligent bandits who do bad stuff consciously then to butch ramdom animals.
So in my game you hardly face wild monsters, most of the time, the monsters you do fight are mutations who broke out from labs and even so, only to control crisis. Most of the time you spend fighting humanoids or machines really. Monster´s might drop itens but it is usually cheap stuff. However you may be rewarded later for saving a village from mutations with something nice.
As for the main point: Standards
I don´t mind games like Hero´s Realm (yes Kentona, I don´t hate you or your game XD) who try to hold to standards INTENTIONALLY in a way where it is made to be fun. But I do have a beef with ppl who does things without thinking and claim "but Final Fantasy did that, so it is fine!" no it is not fucking fine unless you find YOUR OWN reason to note why in hell do that work on your game since your game is not Final Fantasy.
It is not because companies are lazy and just want to rip your money with anything uber flawed that you should follow in and limit your game to their shitty standards.
Each game is diferent and things work different for each game, just note the differences between McDohl concept and mine around the monster drop issue.
RPG's are very rarely based upon fiction...
Giving monsters currently is basically cutting out the middle man. So a monster drops an item, you sell it. Now you have money anyway. Trying to be realistic almost feels pointless at some places because there are so many unrealistic ideas in an RPG. If you stop monsters dropping currency then will you stop having treasure chests to find? Will you stop using magic, hold on, waiting for turns is silly too, lets get rid of that! RPGs have been doing it since the start, if you WANT to do it, by all means. You can just end up defeating the purpose of an RPG. Changing monsters dropping money to items isn't exactly a big thing I know, you just want be careful by changing something small like this but leaving in things like your world is a floating island.
Loads of things in RPG's don't make sense in the real world. That's why we love them! I for one, will continue to have monsters drop money.
Giving monsters currently is basically cutting out the middle man. So a monster drops an item, you sell it. Now you have money anyway. Trying to be realistic almost feels pointless at some places because there are so many unrealistic ideas in an RPG. If you stop monsters dropping currency then will you stop having treasure chests to find? Will you stop using magic, hold on, waiting for turns is silly too, lets get rid of that! RPGs have been doing it since the start, if you WANT to do it, by all means. You can just end up defeating the purpose of an RPG. Changing monsters dropping money to items isn't exactly a big thing I know, you just want be careful by changing something small like this but leaving in things like your world is a floating island.
Loads of things in RPG's don't make sense in the real world. That's why we love them! I for one, will continue to have monsters drop money.
Clest
0
LWG: you, as most ppl who discussed against me when I promoted topics like this one in other forums have a misconception: we are not talking about REALISM but COHERENCE TO YOUR OWN SETTING/WORLD :) Not screaming, just making it really clear on the difference.
I play RPGs to virtually live in another world different exactly from our real world, to do that I need that world to be coherent within itself as much as world is (think laws of physics here, they will always work one way or another, cause and consequence etc).
I don´t mind monster dropping currency if it is well elaborated in detail inside the game in a way that regular villagers would say to each other.
The problem is: People prefer to just ignore those aspects of coherence instead of trying to turn then into FUN systems or aspects, which is possible, just takes effort which is never a bad thing, specially in RM when all we have on our side compared to commercial games is creativity.
After ppl ignore those coherency holes, they make even more holes by creating completely new systems which doesn´t make sense with the rest of the setting plot. Why do that if they could just make a system to represent something useful that had fun potential?
As for turn based combat, if you read any table top RPG book, they will explain that turns are just a form to represent the flow of battle in gameplay and most of then have even a defined tima value for turns (like 10 to 60 seconds) so in practice, characters aren´t waiting each other´s turns, it is supposed to be happening all at the same time. More or less like a movie or even a book.
Now you never see ppl finding money inside forest wolves in fantasy novels and less the wolf ate a wallet/sack full of gold from a traveller :P
As for floating continents and magic: again, not realistic, but coherent. In fact I hate it when a game presents magic laws in X way (having for elements for example) and its sequel changes it to Y way without any explanation as to how the magic flow was shifted or how come ppl learned about new elements or forgotten about others. Chrono Cross raped Chrono Trigger magic system in that.
I play RPGs to virtually live in another world different exactly from our real world, to do that I need that world to be coherent within itself as much as world is (think laws of physics here, they will always work one way or another, cause and consequence etc).
I don´t mind monster dropping currency if it is well elaborated in detail inside the game in a way that regular villagers would say to each other.
The problem is: People prefer to just ignore those aspects of coherence instead of trying to turn then into FUN systems or aspects, which is possible, just takes effort which is never a bad thing, specially in RM when all we have on our side compared to commercial games is creativity.
After ppl ignore those coherency holes, they make even more holes by creating completely new systems which doesn´t make sense with the rest of the setting plot. Why do that if they could just make a system to represent something useful that had fun potential?
As for turn based combat, if you read any table top RPG book, they will explain that turns are just a form to represent the flow of battle in gameplay and most of then have even a defined tima value for turns (like 10 to 60 seconds) so in practice, characters aren´t waiting each other´s turns, it is supposed to be happening all at the same time. More or less like a movie or even a book.
Now you never see ppl finding money inside forest wolves in fantasy novels and less the wolf ate a wallet/sack full of gold from a traveller :P
As for floating continents and magic: again, not realistic, but coherent. In fact I hate it when a game presents magic laws in X way (having for elements for example) and its sequel changes it to Y way without any explanation as to how the magic flow was shifted or how come ppl learned about new elements or forgotten about others. Chrono Cross raped Chrono Trigger magic system in that.
Clest: A-ha! I see exactly what you're saying now!
Although I still stand by my original comment about Loot vs. Money, which regardless of coherence, cuts out the middle man, I just don't see the deal, nor with having treasure chests to find etc. Those don't seem like big issues to me.
Wanting coherence with your setting is natural, you want things to make sense. Of course you do. For example, in my game monsters explode when you kill them, I've explained exactly why this happens. I like to see games explain things via game play or have puzzles that make sense. I do agree with you, it's just how far you go into it that I disagree with (it's obviously different for everyone).
I don't think fantasy novels and games can be compared.
Although I still stand by my original comment about Loot vs. Money, which regardless of coherence, cuts out the middle man, I just don't see the deal, nor with having treasure chests to find etc. Those don't seem like big issues to me.
Wanting coherence with your setting is natural, you want things to make sense. Of course you do. For example, in my game monsters explode when you kill them, I've explained exactly why this happens. I like to see games explain things via game play or have puzzles that make sense. I do agree with you, it's just how far you go into it that I disagree with (it's obviously different for everyone).
I don't think fantasy novels and games can be compared.
Clest
0
The problem with cutting the middle man is that it just doesn´t seem make sense. NOW if in game you were informed that "you earn spoils from monsters which are used as currency, we at the market have specific values for then, so you can just count then as money based on this table" the NPC hands a plot only written table of prices and whenever you muder an innocent monster you get "you received 5g equivalent in monster parts according to the table".
And I think coherence should be there as long as it won´t cut then fun, and that all depends on creativity.
Regarding novels: Simple, The difference between RPGs and novels lies in interactivity and setting scope. Both of then have narrativedevices to ensure the reader/player gets the best from the book/game, however in both, coherence is diferent from narrative devices.
Turn battle system is pretty much the same you have when you read a book narrating a battle between two groups of 4 ppl. The author will separate the events happening in a way that the reader can understand what each character did in the scene, just that the narration flow won´t exactly follow a turn order, but it will follow the order that the author preceives as best for the situation.
Same as in: RPGs characters hardly eat, but it is assumed they do eat and tend to woulds when they sleep at an INN. In books you sometimes has that too "The night has passed while our heroes had a relaxing time at the jumping taurus INN and the morning came..." unless something relevant happened at that night, the author would just write something like that, specially for novels which spam years of story in a single book.
My point with that is: diferentiating what is fictional aspect (Magic), what is narrative mechanics (turn based system/menus) and what is just coherence hole (finding gold coins inside a wild wolf without any clear reason).
And I think coherence should be there as long as it won´t cut then fun, and that all depends on creativity.
Regarding novels: Simple, The difference between RPGs and novels lies in interactivity and setting scope. Both of then have narrativedevices to ensure the reader/player gets the best from the book/game, however in both, coherence is diferent from narrative devices.
Turn battle system is pretty much the same you have when you read a book narrating a battle between two groups of 4 ppl. The author will separate the events happening in a way that the reader can understand what each character did in the scene, just that the narration flow won´t exactly follow a turn order, but it will follow the order that the author preceives as best for the situation.
Same as in: RPGs characters hardly eat, but it is assumed they do eat and tend to woulds when they sleep at an INN. In books you sometimes has that too "The night has passed while our heroes had a relaxing time at the jumping taurus INN and the morning came..." unless something relevant happened at that night, the author would just write something like that, specially for novels which spam years of story in a single book.
My point with that is: diferentiating what is fictional aspect (Magic), what is narrative mechanics (turn based system/menus) and what is just coherence hole (finding gold coins inside a wild wolf without any clear reason).
Whenever I come to issues like this, I always have to consider three things.
1. Coherency - how does this subject tie into the world, and if it doesn't, what must be done to make it do so?
2. Game balance - how does this affect the way the game plays? Is it integral for the game to work right? Can it function better in a different way?
3. Payoff - is this actually worth changing? How much effort needs to be put forward to make this work, and will it make a big enough difference to warrant it?
As far as money drops by monsters goes, it doesn't really bother me how it's done. I don't care if creatures that would never own a dime drop cash for the heroes, because it's more an aspect of gameplay than coherency (to me, at least). You can explain it like Clest did and make it coherent with the world, and that's just fine and dandy. But, it's not something that would make or break a game for me.
I draw my own lines of coherency where I like, as there are a lot of things I don't like about other RPGs. For example, I don't like having treasure chests lying around everywhere. That makes no sense to me. But then, I turn around and have monsters drop all the equipment you could ever hope for and hide special skill books around every corner instead. Does it make sense? Not in the least. But I know what I like and what I don't, and I divide the things that don't make coherent sense into what should be questioned and what should be accepted as part of the game.
The reason I don't make a big deal out of stuff like this is my third consideration up there: payoff. If something is so trivial that it makes almost no difference at all (like monsters dropping money), then I don't bother changing it. It all depends on the subject of what's being changed. A better example might be a CMS. I always use the DBS in my RPGs because CMS's are hard to script for and would serve virtually the same purpose (and probably be broken in a few places). So, I don't bother.
Just my lengthy two-cents...
1. Coherency - how does this subject tie into the world, and if it doesn't, what must be done to make it do so?
2. Game balance - how does this affect the way the game plays? Is it integral for the game to work right? Can it function better in a different way?
3. Payoff - is this actually worth changing? How much effort needs to be put forward to make this work, and will it make a big enough difference to warrant it?
As far as money drops by monsters goes, it doesn't really bother me how it's done. I don't care if creatures that would never own a dime drop cash for the heroes, because it's more an aspect of gameplay than coherency (to me, at least). You can explain it like Clest did and make it coherent with the world, and that's just fine and dandy. But, it's not something that would make or break a game for me.
I draw my own lines of coherency where I like, as there are a lot of things I don't like about other RPGs. For example, I don't like having treasure chests lying around everywhere. That makes no sense to me. But then, I turn around and have monsters drop all the equipment you could ever hope for and hide special skill books around every corner instead. Does it make sense? Not in the least. But I know what I like and what I don't, and I divide the things that don't make coherent sense into what should be questioned and what should be accepted as part of the game.
The reason I don't make a big deal out of stuff like this is my third consideration up there: payoff. If something is so trivial that it makes almost no difference at all (like monsters dropping money), then I don't bother changing it. It all depends on the subject of what's being changed. A better example might be a CMS. I always use the DBS in my RPGs because CMS's are hard to script for and would serve virtually the same purpose (and probably be broken in a few places). So, I don't bother.
Just my lengthy two-cents...
I don't really challenge the standards of the currency system... I usually have both GP and loot drops. Most of my STICKING IT TO THE MAN is based on skills and character roles.
I'm with DE, I guess, although I'm not nearly as vehement about FFXII.
I'm with DE, I guess, although I'm not nearly as vehement about FFXII.
I'm in total agreement with DE. Cutting out useless trekking just to get gold is a great gameplay decision. It automates a tedious sequence of events. Making "loot" drops is a step backwards in playability.
I am also highly in favor of monsters dropping gold.
HOWEVER! If someone has a really well-implemented crafting/alchemy system, that doesn't suck, is easy to use, and gives you good results, I can see monsters dropping "parts" or whatever. Like taking the teeth or claws from defeated beasts to make a fang necklace that enhances your STR.
HOWEVER! If someone has a really well-implemented crafting/alchemy system, that doesn't suck, is easy to use, and gives you good results, I can see monsters dropping "parts" or whatever. Like taking the teeth or claws from defeated beasts to make a fang necklace that enhances your STR.
author=DE link=topic=2605.msg48218#msg48218 date=1228136080Yes, I agree with this.
It does make sense if you consider it a way to make the game more user-friendly.
How, you ask? Simple.
Let's say you go the way of FF12 and make all monsters drop loot, which the player then has to bring to a merchant and sell for money.
Gold-dropping enemies make it all an automated process. You don't have to approach a store and then clickity click and then click some more just to sell all the junk you've been carrying. It is assumed that your characters take the loot and sell it automatically, and for the sake of convenience you get your money right after slaying a monster.
TBH I prefer the old-fashioned way. I really HATED the loot aspect of FF12 (and some other RPGs), because I never knew how much money I REALLY had ATM, and whether to stay and grind some more. Plus even if I killed an enemy, I was never sure how valuable a loot (if any) I would get.
In the end, I guess I really don't care if slimes drop gold.
Plus, it's funny how the heros, who despite us knowing that they've never talked to an alchemist or anything (especially at the beginning when you're just leaving your burned town), know exactly what materials from the monster are valuable and which ones aren't. Unless they carry whole monster carcasses, which is even worse than the carrying 100 plate mails in your bag. It doesn't take a genius to know that you could get furs from some animals, though. You could solve this by having the hero have a book or something that goes over the useful materials and what they sell for. It'd also be nice to have an estimate of what you'd have before you actually go to town and sell it.
Having your inventory cluttered by useless item drops is also annoying. But making the items have a second purpose makes me save them instead of selling them thinking that I might need to use it somewhere, earning me even less gold.
I had no problems with monster drops instead of gold in Oblivion. There aren't too many varieties of things you can get, so you don't have to keep track of a million different useless items. A lot of the things can just directly be made into potions, and that's in a seperate category so you don't ever have to worry about it if you don't want to. Then, human enemies give you everything they have, so if you see one with a nice Golden armor, that armor is yours once you slay them. Human enemies are always the most rewarding ones to kill because of that.
Also, if equipment is pretty expensive, then it would be frustrating to have to grind, go back to realize that you don't have enough, then go back out and kill some more, when you could just get the money right there and then so you can tell if you have enough. Again, it's different in Oblivion since I've never had to buy equipment other than like arrows, so I could just save up for a house, which wasn't something I had to have immediately. Or save up for training and things like that. Then it's a nice feeling to go from 19 Gold to 3252 just by one merchant visit.
In Paradise Blue, I have the 4 guards protecting the main characters. They are paid to protect them, so rather than get a salary, they just get paid for winning the battles. If the creatures aren't a threat, then they aren't really getting anything for it.
Neophyte
155
I have no problem with monsters dropping currency. I prefer that method, actually. If you're going to make monsters drop loot that you have to sell, add some depth to it. An easy way would be to have several merchants throughout the game. Each merchant needs a specific loot drop and is willing to pay more than the standard price for that item. So that Blue Slime Goo that usually sells for 5G can be sold for 10G depending on the merchant. There are also games like Fallout 3, where you can make weapons or items if you have the necessary parts to create it, or just have the loot you sell be determined by your Bargain stat.
As for the actual question, I really have no idea. I guess it all has to do with the type of world you're trying to create. It's one of those things that I don't really think about. There are the obvious things, like not having certain terrain around a capital city. And I find it pretty stupid as well that the only way to get to the port city is through the EMERALD CAVE.
As for the actual question, I really have no idea. I guess it all has to do with the type of world you're trying to create. It's one of those things that I don't really think about. There are the obvious things, like not having certain terrain around a capital city. And I find it pretty stupid as well that the only way to get to the port city is through the EMERALD CAVE.
You are the laziest gamer ever, Ocean.
It's been a while since I've sat down and discussed game dev stuff with you guys.
Well, I have no problem with monsters dropping gold, NOR do I have a problem with monsters dropping loot. It's all the same, right? Monsters dropping gold is really an RPG mainstay, and you know what they say, if it isn't broke, etc...
As far as loot goes, I think it's a good idea as long as the creator has a purpose to having it there, instead of just trying to be original. I didn't mind FFXII's loot system because not only did it add an element of 'hunting', but you actually got things from selling loot; enough items of a certain type would give you another item, and it gives you an incentive to keep on going. FF12 wasn't my favorite FF, but holy shit did I spent hours and hours just killing random shit to get more shit just because of the loot system. If implemented well I think it can be a good idea.
It's been a while since I've sat down and discussed game dev stuff with you guys.
Well, I have no problem with monsters dropping gold, NOR do I have a problem with monsters dropping loot. It's all the same, right? Monsters dropping gold is really an RPG mainstay, and you know what they say, if it isn't broke, etc...
As far as loot goes, I think it's a good idea as long as the creator has a purpose to having it there, instead of just trying to be original. I didn't mind FFXII's loot system because not only did it add an element of 'hunting', but you actually got things from selling loot; enough items of a certain type would give you another item, and it gives you an incentive to keep on going. FF12 wasn't my favorite FF, but holy shit did I spent hours and hours just killing random shit to get more shit just because of the loot system. If implemented well I think it can be a good idea.
Shinan
4314
When it comes to the loot one of the things I just don't see enough is having loads of useless loot on every single body. It's sort of ingrained in the gamer mind (at least in me) that I need to pick up everything a creature drops. What if, after you kill an enemy (let's say it's a human in this example because animals are bound to carry less useless shit) you can strip search the guy completely. Clothing, lint in the pockets, spare change, pocket knives, shoelaces. EVERYTHING. Then you'll as a player will be forced to decide just what crap you want to keep unless you walk five meters outside a town and is overburdened enough and have to get to the nearest merchant to sell off your shit. (and no one will buy the shaped rock with sentimental value the thief carried)
This idea reminded me of something and I just remembered what it was. I was playing STALKER Clear Sky and it had a bit of this in it. Without all the clothing obviously. But there was so much random loot lying around and so little possibility to carry it all that I had to leave some of it behind. And I was really sad every time I left a sawn off shotgun behind since I always wanted to get that 5 rubles it was worth... Because I'm always pack muling. After a while of the game though I started to get used to the idea of leaving weapons and ammo that I really didn't need behind. And in a way it did add to the atmosphere of things. Finding a hidden stash of goods but only picking up some of it.
I know Arcanum also had a bit of this. Especially in the looking-into-every-unlocked-chest syndrome. The cities in Arcanum was full of trash bins. And every trash bin had items in them. In the beginning of the game I was running around picking shit up from trash bins but obviously no one wanted to buy the trash I picked up. Being so used to being able to sell just about anything in RPGs I kept a lot of that trash around looking for a sucker that would buy it from me.
Eventually I realized that just because you can search it and there's items in it, doesn't mean it's worth squat. The game also sold numerous newspapers, which were fun to buy occasionally but they didn't really do much. Except of course that you threw them in the trash after you've read them. And suddenly it all sort of made sense.
This idea reminded me of something and I just remembered what it was. I was playing STALKER Clear Sky and it had a bit of this in it. Without all the clothing obviously. But there was so much random loot lying around and so little possibility to carry it all that I had to leave some of it behind. And I was really sad every time I left a sawn off shotgun behind since I always wanted to get that 5 rubles it was worth... Because I'm always pack muling. After a while of the game though I started to get used to the idea of leaving weapons and ammo that I really didn't need behind. And in a way it did add to the atmosphere of things. Finding a hidden stash of goods but only picking up some of it.
I know Arcanum also had a bit of this. Especially in the looking-into-every-unlocked-chest syndrome. The cities in Arcanum was full of trash bins. And every trash bin had items in them. In the beginning of the game I was running around picking shit up from trash bins but obviously no one wanted to buy the trash I picked up. Being so used to being able to sell just about anything in RPGs I kept a lot of that trash around looking for a sucker that would buy it from me.
Eventually I realized that just because you can search it and there's items in it, doesn't mean it's worth squat. The game also sold numerous newspapers, which were fun to buy occasionally but they didn't really do much. Except of course that you threw them in the trash after you've read them. And suddenly it all sort of made sense.
