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A RACIAL AND CULTURAL TOPIC!
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bahlete442456234996
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I'm German so I MUST be a Nazi, and I must LOVE beer.
Actually, I don't mind alcohol, but that's not the point. I'll say it: Stereotypes are fine. It's making stupid choices BASED on those stereotypes that's not cool.
Actually, I don't mind alcohol, but that's not the point. I'll say it: Stereotypes are fine. It's making stupid choices BASED on those stereotypes that's not cool.
For example, words like nigger are just that - words. They should be no more insulting than other words that have historical context (like bastard, for example, possibly the worst insult of the middle ages). They are adjectives that were invented specifically for describing a situation and became insults on that absis. Nigger, for example, comes from negro which obviously comes from European words for the colour black. Calling someone black, though, is politically correct whereas nigger isn't when the words derive from the same source. Is it not so unrealistic to believe that, in the future, out "politically correcrt" words could also become insults on the basis that they are accurate descriptions? It's completely retarded and shortsighted to assume they won't (ironically, retard is another word that was at first a perfectly acceptable description but has now become insulting and has had to be been replaced by something more "politically correct").
Like suzi was saying, I too think that the word should just be reduced to that; a word. Not only will that stop the negativity, but the word will lose it's power as well. A word only holds powers depending on how the person who heard it interprets it. This much is true, especially considering that black people aren't the only race who is discriminated against.
However, that is the responsibility of black people to overcome, no matter how much we all think that it should be overcome. That doesn't make it hunky dory to use the word and everything should be okay. Calling someone a name and expecting them to be alright with it is wrong; yes, you can argue that they shouldn't be so sensitive, but it's not right for me to insult the person in the first place.
Also, Fallen, I think you're missing the point when you explained the origin of the word. Sure, it's etymologically correct to say that the word 'nigger' came about as simply a description for someone's skin color, but the fact is it evolved to be one of the most hurtful pejoratives to ever describe a black person. So when a black person hears the word, they don't think 'Oh gee that's just a word that was invented to describe us in the distant past', they think 'Oh, that's the word that they called us on the horrible boat ride over here, while they were whipping us, what they shouted at us as we walked away when the Proclamation set us free, when they didn't let us vote, when they denied us work, when they didn't let our children go to school from theirs, when they hung us from trees, etc'. As a person of color do I think we should get over the word? Yes! But it's not right for someone to use it expecting the other person to get over it.
suzuricho
283
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2621.msg48803#msg48803 date=1228317114For example, words like nigger are just that - words. They should be no more insulting than other words that have historical context (like bastard, for example, possibly the worst insult of the middle ages). They are adjectives that were invented specifically for describing a situation and became insults on that absis. Nigger, for example, comes from negro which obviously comes from European words for the colour black. Calling someone black, though, is politically correct whereas nigger isn't when the words derive from the same source. Is it not so unrealistic to believe that, in the future, out "politically correcrt" words could also become insults on the basis that they are accurate descriptions? It's completely retarded and shortsighted to assume they won't (ironically, retard is another word that was at first a perfectly acceptable description but has now become insulting and has had to be been replaced by something more "politically correct").
Like suzi was saying, I too think that the word should just be reduced to that; a word. Not only will that stop the negativity, but the word will lose it's power as well. A word only holds powers depending on how the person who heard it interprets it. This much is true, especially considering that black people aren't the only race who is discriminated against.
However, that is the responsibility of black people to overcome, no matter how much we all think that it should be overcome. That doesn't make it hunky dory to use the word and everything should be okay. Calling someone a name and expecting them to be alright with it is wrong; yes, you can argue that they shouldn't be so sensitive, but it's not right for me to insult the person in the first place.
Also, Fallen, I think you're missing the point when you explained the origin of the word. Sure, it's etymologically correct to say that the word 'nigger' came about as simply a description for someone's skin color, but the fact is it evolved to be one of the most hurtful pejoratives to ever describe a black person. So when a black person hears the word, they don't think 'Oh gee that's just a word that was invented to describe us in the distant past', they think 'Oh, that's the word that they called us on the horrible boat ride over here, while they were whipping us, what they shouted at us as we walked away when the Proclamation set us free, when they didn't let us vote, when they denied us work, when they didn't let our children go to school from theirs, when they hung us from trees, etc'. As a person of color do I think we should get over the word? Yes! But it's not right for someone to use it expecting the other person to get over it.
This requires a type of healing on both sides. The users of the word probably intend to offend by it, not just use it as a joke between friends. The victims need to let the word just slip on by when they hear it. If people weren't so intent on hating on ethnic groups, and the victims weren't so sensitive, I think the whole issue would be dissolved over time. "Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words can never hurt me" may not be the best advice in the whole world, but I think more people should be that way.
I don't understand the hatred, really, because I'm not a part of either group. I don't like using the word. I don't like hearing the word, because I know of the hurt that word contains to other people. My ancestors probably did - as my family can be traced back to France, they crossed over and lived in the Southern states. However, they weren't the rich plantation owners most people think about, they were sharecroppers.
And besides, while this may sound offensive as it can get, I'll say it anyway: your ancestors were the ones that had the real abuse. While you carry that strong and rich heritage, none of the black people alive today have actually been a slave. They have had to deal with other pressures, yes, but not slavery.
maladroithim
1495
author=ChaosProductions link=topic=2621.msg48796#msg48796 date=1228313431
I'm German so I MUST be a Nazi, and I must LOVE beer.
Actually, I don't mind alcohol, but that's not the point. I'll say it: Stereotypes are fine. It's making stupid choices BASED on those stereotypes that's not cool.
People having this stereotype is much less harmful than someone being afraid of you because you are black. Unlike my bro Feld, nobody is afraid you are going to jack his car stereo (I've got my eye on you buddy...)!
The N word!
The only time the word "nigger" is appropriate is when Chris Rock is telling you the difference between a nigger and a black person. It's not just a word or a put down - it's really a horrible horrible thing to call a black person. It's easy to be an armchair philosopher when you are a suburban white and especially if you are also a teenager. It would be nice if the average black could shrug off being called a nigger and move on with his day, but it would also be nice if racist whites would stop using it. I mean we can talk about esoterics all day, but we could always do a field exercise where one of us calls a random black guy a nigger and the rest of us watch what happens. I am assuming the result would prove that it is an extremely hurtful word!
The phrase "African American"
I do not like the phrase "African American". I know that we're going out of our way to not offend anyone, but phrases like that are so pandering that I would assume they become demeaning. But I am a suburban white and am armchair philosophizing!
I am certainly not outwardly racist and I do not judge people based on their race, but like Azn said, there are probably always subversive unconscious things going on in the back of my mind. I do no think living in the ghetto for a couple of years was any help.
One interesting thing that has been brought up is that a black person is only shown respect if he dresses and acts like a white person.
People having this stereotype is much less harmful than someone being afraid of you because you are black. Unlike my bro Feld, nobody is afraid you are going to jack his car stereo (I've got my eye on you buddy...)!
Yeah I wish white people (not all white people obviously) would stop being all afraid and awkward around black people. It's really obvious. We won't rob you.
The only time the word "nigger" is appropriate is when Chris Rock is telling you the difference between a nigger and a black person.
You know, I read that Chris Rock actually regrets that skit and no longer does it because he regrets making it seem acceptable to call someone a nigger under any circumstances.
Shinan
4314
I'm a huge racist. I'm suspicious of any "outsiders". My prejudices helps me through life. I may not always show things like it, but in the back of my head I'm thinking "these gypsies are going to steal something I know it".
I don't really have any of the pure negro fear, other than the slight wonderment of seeing one. ("Is that a real negro?") Being in a country that only recently has been exposed to multiculturalism. (I don't remember any "non-locals" in my first six years of school. Except of course for a couple of guys from out-of-town, who obviously got a bit of shit. Being from out-of-town and all strange and things)
Of course that's all changed recently with all the refugees and whatnot. And the early suspicion and (since it is a small town) the dividing between those "who are nice people" and those "who try to haggle". You can't trust hagglers, they just pollute the culture.
So if I didn't see any of those tensions in the first ten years of my life there was quite a bit of it in the following ten years and now everyone just seem to be getting along.
All of this said. Even more than I'm racist I'm anti-anti-racist. Man I hate those anti-racists. "You can't say anything to anyone". Well fuck that if I want to tell someone's an asshole (because he clearly is) then I should obviously be allowed to do so. Schoolyard bullying is for everyone everywhere, you shouldn't get more punishmen for bullying a kurd than one of those fifteen-generation pure-bred Finland-Swedes. (no Russian nor Finnish heritage, pure Finland-Swede. I wonder how one of those would look. And if there's anyone he/she wouldn't be related to...)
So yeah I'm a racist. And very prejudiced. We all know that *insert neighbouring town here* are a bunch of wacks. But when it comes to *insert neighbouring country here* our neighbour town are our allies. And when it comes to *insert separate country far away, possibly coalition of countries or superpower*, the neighbours stand together. And then when it comes to *different continent* that obviously suck balls all the previous country stand together and point and laugh and so on. And so on.
And then there's anime geeks. The only thing lower I guess is furries who write anime fan fiction. I mean honestly.
I don't really have any of the pure negro fear, other than the slight wonderment of seeing one. ("Is that a real negro?") Being in a country that only recently has been exposed to multiculturalism. (I don't remember any "non-locals" in my first six years of school. Except of course for a couple of guys from out-of-town, who obviously got a bit of shit. Being from out-of-town and all strange and things)
Of course that's all changed recently with all the refugees and whatnot. And the early suspicion and (since it is a small town) the dividing between those "who are nice people" and those "who try to haggle". You can't trust hagglers, they just pollute the culture.
So if I didn't see any of those tensions in the first ten years of my life there was quite a bit of it in the following ten years and now everyone just seem to be getting along.
All of this said. Even more than I'm racist I'm anti-anti-racist. Man I hate those anti-racists. "You can't say anything to anyone". Well fuck that if I want to tell someone's an asshole (because he clearly is) then I should obviously be allowed to do so. Schoolyard bullying is for everyone everywhere, you shouldn't get more punishmen for bullying a kurd than one of those fifteen-generation pure-bred Finland-Swedes. (no Russian nor Finnish heritage, pure Finland-Swede. I wonder how one of those would look. And if there's anyone he/she wouldn't be related to...)
So yeah I'm a racist. And very prejudiced. We all know that *insert neighbouring town here* are a bunch of wacks. But when it comes to *insert neighbouring country here* our neighbour town are our allies. And when it comes to *insert separate country far away, possibly coalition of countries or superpower*, the neighbours stand together. And then when it comes to *different continent* that obviously suck balls all the previous country stand together and point and laugh and so on. And so on.
And then there's anime geeks. The only thing lower I guess is furries who write anime fan fiction. I mean honestly.
author=brandonabley link=topic=2621.msg48812#msg48812 date=1228321257
One interesting thing that has been brought up is that a black person is only shown respect if he dresses and acts like a white person.
While this is true, it doesn't only apply to black people. I believe that clothes show your personality. If you dress like a gangster, people will avoid you. By saying this you are stereotyping a white person.
Ironically, if it wasn't for the slave trade then black people probably wouldn't be in a position to be dressing "like white people". You know, being stuck on a continent without much civilisation and all...
Oh, yeah, I went there.
Ironically, if it wasn't for the century long European disruption, colonization, and outright raping and taking advantage of the African continent and it's people, Africa would probably would be on equal standing with the rest of the planet. You know, with civilization and all.
Learn your history, homeslice.
author=Fallen-Griever link=topic=2621.msg48889#msg48889 date=1228345289
history stuff
You know, after the fall of Rome and before the Renaissance the height of culture existed in Northern Africa, the Middle East and Asia. Granted, by the colonial period they had slipped in stature as old Empires fell apart and alliances crumbled, but you almost make it sound as if the people themselves are inherently inferior.
I'm going to bump this topic with a question and a comment in hopes of getting new discussion and faces.
You know what I find funny as an American? People who I meet and they say they've never seen a black person until they were like 12 or something. Maybe it's because I'm a minority and because I grew up in a major city, but I find that almost hilarious. Of course that's not anyone's fault or even a bad thing. Just interesting.
Which leads me, how many friends of other races do you have? Are there any races or cultures you feel uncomfortable or nervous being around or talking to?
You know what I find funny as an American? People who I meet and they say they've never seen a black person until they were like 12 or something. Maybe it's because I'm a minority and because I grew up in a major city, but I find that almost hilarious. Of course that's not anyone's fault or even a bad thing. Just interesting.
Which leads me, how many friends of other races do you have? Are there any races or cultures you feel uncomfortable or nervous being around or talking to?
Canuck
0
I've met black people at a young age (in Vancouver), but it wasn't until I was 21 in Japan that I met an African-American, which was a completely different experience. It sometimes (not all the time) made me feel nervous about everything I said because of misinterpretations to racism and touchiness on certain subjects that a few of the African-American people I met seemed to have (perhaps with good reason, I'm not sure).
That's not race though, but culture. Black people I've met in Canada usually have a very different history and culture, and act very differently.
That's not race though, but culture. Black people I've met in Canada usually have a very different history and culture, and act very differently.
ZPE
1562
Hmmm well I'm "brown" myself but I've lived in England all my life. I've had lots of racial abuse especially when my family moved out of an area full of Asians to another area that was full of Whites.
Gradually, things got better as time went on. However, nowadays I have very diverse friends and this was all because I found myself in these situations (uni, training etc) and I found common ground with them (faith, sports, studies etc).
I reckon when you see someone for the first time, you bring up a lot of assumptions which you eventually confirm or find it's entirely false (this is what I usually find) if you stick around with them for a while or are made to do so.
Admittedly I used to be uneasy of black people because of the environment I was brought up in but I now live in a multicultural area where I can meet lots of new people who can share recipes I never heard of or talk about things I never dreamt of before. I'm grateful for that. :)
Gradually, things got better as time went on. However, nowadays I have very diverse friends and this was all because I found myself in these situations (uni, training etc) and I found common ground with them (faith, sports, studies etc).
I reckon when you see someone for the first time, you bring up a lot of assumptions which you eventually confirm or find it's entirely false (this is what I usually find) if you stick around with them for a while or are made to do so.
Admittedly I used to be uneasy of black people because of the environment I was brought up in but I now live in a multicultural area where I can meet lots of new people who can share recipes I never heard of or talk about things I never dreamt of before. I'm grateful for that. :)
Akane
0
Even though I've been living in a small town for several years now, I still go through racial and cultural messes. My first years in high school were difficult. Because I am so mixed, people generally thought I was Mexican--which I have developed a slight dislike towards.
Only because people racially profiled me before even knowing me because of the colour of my skin, hair, etc. The Mexicans mistreated me at school because I spoke English and not Spanish, did not have an accent, and wore the colour blue a lot. SO I had rocks thrown at me, fights broke out, etc.
I mean, it is California, but I'd prefer it if people didn't automatically assume I was of a Hispanic origin right off the bat because of how dark I am. Sometimes I feel bad, because some Spanish-only speakers will come up to me with that assumption and start asking me stuff in Spanish...while I can only wish they'll say something remotely close to English.
It's nothing major, but I just don't like being profiled right off the bat--especially when it's not what I am. Other than that, the local Filipinos denied me because I wasn't "asian" enough or something. They disliked me and my lack of a "bubble tea drinking, break dancing, rap loving, hip hop brand name wearing personality." Not to stereotype them, but that's what they were, and how they defined themselves, through voice and appearance.
All that was mostly high school identity crisis bullcrap, but some of it still happens in college.
Only because people racially profiled me before even knowing me because of the colour of my skin, hair, etc. The Mexicans mistreated me at school because I spoke English and not Spanish, did not have an accent, and wore the colour blue a lot. SO I had rocks thrown at me, fights broke out, etc.
I mean, it is California, but I'd prefer it if people didn't automatically assume I was of a Hispanic origin right off the bat because of how dark I am. Sometimes I feel bad, because some Spanish-only speakers will come up to me with that assumption and start asking me stuff in Spanish...while I can only wish they'll say something remotely close to English.
It's nothing major, but I just don't like being profiled right off the bat--especially when it's not what I am. Other than that, the local Filipinos denied me because I wasn't "asian" enough or something. They disliked me and my lack of a "bubble tea drinking, break dancing, rap loving, hip hop brand name wearing personality." Not to stereotype them, but that's what they were, and how they defined themselves, through voice and appearance.
All that was mostly high school identity crisis bullcrap, but some of it still happens in college.
