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CYBERBULLYING AND THE LAW
Posts
aprilschild
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CloseSo I was bored and the internet swept me away to a magical land called "Youtube," where I found out about a girl named Megan Meier. This girl was already emotionally unstable, and at the young age of 13, she hung herself due to some exceptionally cruel Myspace shit:
This was a few years ago, and Lori Drew ended up being indicted on three counts of accessing protected computers without authorization to obtain information to inflict emotional distress, and one count of criminal conspiracy. When the case went to trial, there was a mess of controversy surrounding the violation of Myspace's ToS. Some people were of the opinion that violation of ToS should be made illegal.
Setting aside the fact that this woman was probably the most immature human being to date (seriously, a grown woman CYBERBULLYING someone?), I feel that her actions were definitely the least of the cruelty that can come from the internet. For example, several people have personal photos spread around to strangers, spouses contacted and harassed, and - definitely the most detrimental - had their PERSONAL INFO (such as their address and phone number) posted to sites like Encyclopedia Dramatica. Not only is this a gross violation of personal identity, but it's also very unsafe.
I love free speech. I'm all for defending peoples' rights to say things that I disagree with, no matter how provocative. If someone wants to come online and talk about how great Hitler was, and what an awesome group of people the KKK are, that's fine with me, as long as no one is standing in the way of my being able to say the opposite. If you want free speech for one group or one opinion, you can't discriminate - it's all or nothing.
But I think it crosses the line when people post addresses, phone numbers, photographs, and other personal information. That's a violation of the safety of others, and I think the people who do that - and the webmasters who allow that kind of harassment - should be jailed.
But I've always found that this is an interesting topic of conversation. What do you think should be done about "cyberbullying?" When does it become serious... and when should the law be involved?
Her suicide was attributed to cyber-bullying through the social networking website MySpace. The account through which the bullying took place purportedly belonged to a 16-year-old male named "Josh Evans." However, it was actually created by an 18-year-old employee of Lori Drew, the mother of a former friend of Meier. Several people contributed to running the faked account, including Drew.
This was a few years ago, and Lori Drew ended up being indicted on three counts of accessing protected computers without authorization to obtain information to inflict emotional distress, and one count of criminal conspiracy. When the case went to trial, there was a mess of controversy surrounding the violation of Myspace's ToS. Some people were of the opinion that violation of ToS should be made illegal.
Setting aside the fact that this woman was probably the most immature human being to date (seriously, a grown woman CYBERBULLYING someone?), I feel that her actions were definitely the least of the cruelty that can come from the internet. For example, several people have personal photos spread around to strangers, spouses contacted and harassed, and - definitely the most detrimental - had their PERSONAL INFO (such as their address and phone number) posted to sites like Encyclopedia Dramatica. Not only is this a gross violation of personal identity, but it's also very unsafe.
I love free speech. I'm all for defending peoples' rights to say things that I disagree with, no matter how provocative. If someone wants to come online and talk about how great Hitler was, and what an awesome group of people the KKK are, that's fine with me, as long as no one is standing in the way of my being able to say the opposite. If you want free speech for one group or one opinion, you can't discriminate - it's all or nothing.
But I think it crosses the line when people post addresses, phone numbers, photographs, and other personal information. That's a violation of the safety of others, and I think the people who do that - and the webmasters who allow that kind of harassment - should be jailed.
But I've always found that this is an interesting topic of conversation. What do you think should be done about "cyberbullying?" When does it become serious... and when should the law be involved?
This is the folly when people take the stance 'It's only the Internet' and 'Internet; Serious Business' and so on.
It's really a cop out move that downplays the fact that the Internet has grown to be a paramount and almost universal method of human communication. People like to assume that their actions, words, and sentiments 'don't count' when they're behind a computer screen and a username, but the fact is, when you're talking to someone online, it's a real person. Your words can hurt, and that power should be respected offline and on.
It's really a cop out move that downplays the fact that the Internet has grown to be a paramount and almost universal method of human communication. People like to assume that their actions, words, and sentiments 'don't count' when they're behind a computer screen and a username, but the fact is, when you're talking to someone online, it's a real person. Your words can hurt, and that power should be respected offline and on.
When some people aren't held accountable, (meaning they have nothing keeping them in line but their conscience or lack thereof) their potential for raw cruelty and unrestrained douchebaggery is huge. What a sad story.
When some people aren't held accountable, (meaning they have nothing keeping them in line but their conscience or lack thereof) their potential for raw cruelty and unrestrained douchebaggery is huge.
Yeah I think a fan site for this phenomenon unveiled their newest version recently. :)
Seriously, this is a ridiculous story, but I mean, you can hardly call the "bullies" murderers. You'd have to be preeeetttty fucked up in the first place to kill yourself over something like that.
Tyranos
1115
This is a lot like a site that was taken down about a week after it hit the news. Apparently girls who were disgruntled with boyfriends could post pictures and info on those boys on this site. Well then 3 of those boys went missing and were found later on.
Anyways the site was taken down quickly because despite what injustice those girls may think they suffered from their boyfriends posting personal info of someone else online is a violation of someone's right to privacy and also puts them in danger. Courts ruled it illegal to do after those 3 boys were murdered and the girls that set up the site were arrested and are in prison on 3 counts of accessory to murder, invasion of privacy, and harrassment. One boys profile contained info on his "baby penis" thus netting all three girls sexual harassment on one case.
The point is. Anyone who violates privacy and endangers a life gets jailed. Whether they do it online or off. However if this girl was not put in danger then the most her antagonist should have gotten was harrassment and only if the girl reported it.
Still hooking murder on someone because they annoyed and bullied you? Even worse it was over the internet...this strikes me as bull. No one forces you to read something. It's not like the people sending her mean messages were physically holding her eyes open and forcing her face at the computer screen. She read of her own free will and, after seeing an insult or two she should have stopped because anyone who insults someone personally over the net is a dumbass anyways so don't bother paying attention to it, kept reading of her own free will. She made the choice to kill herself because of a IM. SHE MADE THE CHOICE.
This is like saying if someone is mean to you and you kill yourself your family has the right to press murder charges. Simply because you were not nice to them. I'm sorry but this country does not force people to be nice. Live with it. No one has to kiss your, or my own, ass and be a suck up who doesn't stop throwing compliments.
Anyways the site was taken down quickly because despite what injustice those girls may think they suffered from their boyfriends posting personal info of someone else online is a violation of someone's right to privacy and also puts them in danger. Courts ruled it illegal to do after those 3 boys were murdered and the girls that set up the site were arrested and are in prison on 3 counts of accessory to murder, invasion of privacy, and harrassment. One boys profile contained info on his "baby penis" thus netting all three girls sexual harassment on one case.
The point is. Anyone who violates privacy and endangers a life gets jailed. Whether they do it online or off. However if this girl was not put in danger then the most her antagonist should have gotten was harrassment and only if the girl reported it.
Still hooking murder on someone because they annoyed and bullied you? Even worse it was over the internet...this strikes me as bull. No one forces you to read something. It's not like the people sending her mean messages were physically holding her eyes open and forcing her face at the computer screen. She read of her own free will and, after seeing an insult or two she should have stopped because anyone who insults someone personally over the net is a dumbass anyways so don't bother paying attention to it, kept reading of her own free will. She made the choice to kill herself because of a IM. SHE MADE THE CHOICE.
This is like saying if someone is mean to you and you kill yourself your family has the right to press murder charges. Simply because you were not nice to them. I'm sorry but this country does not force people to be nice. Live with it. No one has to kiss your, or my own, ass and be a suck up who doesn't stop throwing compliments.
author=Tyranos link=topic=2798.msg53193#msg53193 date=1230765703
This is like saying if someone is mean to you and you kill yourself your family has the right to press murder charges. Simply because you were not nice to them. I'm sorry but this country does not force people to be nice. Live with it. No one has to kiss your, or my own, ass and be a suck up who doesn't stop throwing compliments.
I'd agree except for the fact that this wasn't just someone saying "u suck lol."
It was a long-standing relationship, like a bf/gf relationship, between a teenaged girl and A GROWN WOMAN pretending to be a TEENAGED BOY.
Now think about if I'd replaced "woman" with "man."
Yeah, that's what I thought.
But instead of this ADULT feigning a romantic relationship with a young girl to get sex, she did it to ruin her life and get revenge.
It may not be illegal, but that kind of behavior is SERIOUSLY f*cked up.
Tyranos
1115
author=aprilschild link=topic=2798.msg53207#msg53207 date=1230767363author=Tyranos link=topic=2798.msg53193#msg53193 date=1230765703
This is like saying if someone is mean to you and you kill yourself your family has the right to press murder charges. Simply because you were not nice to them. I'm sorry but this country does not force people to be nice. Live with it. No one has to kiss your, or my own, ass and be a suck up who doesn't stop throwing compliments.
I'd agree except for the fact that this wasn't just someone saying "u suck lol."
It was a long-standing relationship, like a bf/gf relationship, between a teenaged girl and A GROWN WOMAN pretending to be a TEENAGED BOY.
Now think about if I'd replaced "woman" with "man."
Yeah, that's what I thought.
But instead of this ADULT feigning a romantic relationship with a young girl to get sex, she did it to ruin her life and get revenge.
It may not be illegal, but that kind of behavior is SERIOUSLY f*cked up.
Okay I replaced...no real effect other than that person is a loser for pretending to be a teenager. Oh wait. I already thought that when it was woman. I've heard of a midlife crisis but wow. Thats recapturing your youth.
Still though I wouldn't go and charge a clearly insane person with murder. I would charge her with insanity and delusional behavior. Why else would a grown woman act like this?
No one forces you to read something. It's not like the people sending her mean messages were physically holding her eyes open and forcing her face at the computer screen.
Tell that to little kids being bullied on the playground.
author=Tyranos link=topic=2798.msg53214#msg53214 date=1230767742author=aprilschild link=topic=2798.msg53207#msg53207 date=1230767363author=Tyranos link=topic=2798.msg53193#msg53193 date=1230765703
This is like saying if someone is mean to you and you kill yourself your family has the right to press murder charges. Simply because you were not nice to them. I'm sorry but this country does not force people to be nice. Live with it. No one has to kiss your, or my own, ass and be a suck up who doesn't stop throwing compliments.
I'd agree except for the fact that this wasn't just someone saying "u suck lol."
It was a long-standing relationship, like a bf/gf relationship, between a teenaged girl and A GROWN WOMAN pretending to be a TEENAGED BOY.
Now think about if I'd replaced "woman" with "man."
Yeah, that's what I thought.
But instead of this ADULT feigning a romantic relationship with a young girl to get sex, she did it to ruin her life and get revenge.
It may not be illegal, but that kind of behavior is SERIOUSLY f*cked up.
Okay I replaced...no real effect other than that person is a loser for pretending to be a teenager. I've heard of a midlife crisis but wow. Thats recapturing your youth.
Uh, it's definitely actually for real a crime for an adult to have a relationship with a 13-year-old. If it had been a male, there definitely would have been sexual harrassment/statutory rape charges made.
Tyranos
1115
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2798.msg53216#msg53216 date=1230767839No one forces you to read something. It's not like the people sending her mean messages were physically holding her eyes open and forcing her face at the computer screen.
Tell that to little kids being bullied on the playground.
Sure. As soon as they tell me how someone sitting at a computer miles away PHYSICALLY forced a little girl to look at her computer screen.
And as being anything similar to their own disposition.
Sorry for edit messed that up a little.
Also you are right that persuing a relationship with a kid is a crime. WHEN IT GETS PHYSICAL. Otherwise nothing can be said about it since a daughter and father would normally be friends. Or is it that they can't be because you automatically think he is in it for the sex? Are you implying that people only pursue relationships for sex? If so then at what age does this start.
Remember that if you wish to say something you should have info on backup. Because now you have me curious as to how someone pretending to be in a relationship with a kid is wrong? Don't kids play house?
Seriously...answer those questions.
author=Tyranos link=topic=2798.msg53219#msg53219 date=1230767970author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2798.msg53216#msg53216 date=1230767839No one forces you to read something. It's not like the people sending her mean messages were physically holding her eyes open and forcing her face at the computer screen.
Tell that to little kids being bullied on the playground.
Sure. As soon as they tell me how someone sitting at a computer miles away PHYSICALLY forced a little girl to look at her computer screen as being anything similar to their own disposition.
I don't know dude, it would be like if you were dating a girl IRL for a really long time (which no one forced you to do), and then one day she kicked you in the nuts and told you she was sleeping with your best friend and hated everything you stood for and told you to kill yourself. Maybe this wouldn't phase you, yeah, but what if you'd told her all your deepest secrets/fears and she used all those against you to hurt you.
And let's pretend for a second you're 13 and clinically depressed.
That is what happened to this girl. That is all she knows happened to her. She died before she found out that "lol someone was faking it the whole time."
Tyranos
1115
Being depressed does not give you any special treatment. If you are at the age of 13 you should know DAMN WELL that anything that happens online is pretty much moot and stupid. Why would a 13 year old even look for a relationship online? That's stupid and depression would not lead to such behavior.
If she honestly thought this person who she met only online was in a relationship with her only at the age of 13 then she wasn't just depressed. She was stupid.
My sisters are all REALLY stupid and two are depressed constantly. One because she found out that she can never have kids of her own.
This did not contribute to her blatantly stupid actions as a child. Because she only got depressed afterwards. So don't bother to try the "she was depressed" card. Stupidity is not linked with depression. Not to this extent where you throw out all common sense. Otherwise depressed people would be unable to commit suicide because they wouldn't have the know how to do it by that logic.
If she honestly thought this person who she met only online was in a relationship with her only at the age of 13 then she wasn't just depressed. She was stupid.
My sisters are all REALLY stupid and two are depressed constantly. One because she found out that she can never have kids of her own.
This did not contribute to her blatantly stupid actions as a child. Because she only got depressed afterwards. So don't bother to try the "she was depressed" card. Stupidity is not linked with depression. Not to this extent where you throw out all common sense. Otherwise depressed people would be unable to commit suicide because they wouldn't have the know how to do it by that logic.
author=Tyranos link=topic=2798.msg53226#msg53226 date=1230768395
Being depressed does not give you any special treatment. If you are at the age of 13 you should know DAMN WELL that anything that happens online is pretty much moot and stupid. Why would a 13 year old even look for a relationship online? That's stupid and depression would not lead to such behavior.
If she honestly thought this person who she met only online was in a relationship with her only at the age of 13 then she wasn't just depressed. She was stupid.
Wow, this is incredibly offensive. I was a 14-year-old once, and yeah, I did have an online relationship. I really liked the guy. I like him as a friend even now. He was a real human being and our conversations were real.
Non-romantically, one of my very best friends, I met online. We didn't meet for eight years... I only just met him IRL this past year. Our friendship was just as real as any friendships I have in life, especially now that many of my friends have moved away and I can only talk to them online.
If someone feels ugly, sad, unpopular, and unloved, yeah, they're going to be thrilled when someone on myspace says "you're really beautiful," "i love your eyes" (actual quotes). Especially in a world that's getting smaller and smaller because of the internet. Maybe it's different for boys (I doubt it), but when you're an insecure teenaged girl, you can get won over pretty easily when someone says that they think you're great.
It wasn't like she did the stupid 13-year-old thing and went to have sex/got abducted. Instead, she was just told by someone she trusted that they suddenly and inexplicably hated her. IRL or OL, hearing that kind of thing sucks. Like Max said, she was definitely already not in a healthy state of mind to have killed herself over that...
But the fact remains that an ADULT feigned a romantic relationship WITH A CHILD... just to fuck with them.
Tyranos
1115
I'm not trying to defend the woman or be a cruel bastard to get my rocks off here. I am in no way a mean and nasty guy. But I can't accept that a girl killed herself based on something so intangible should be able to blame this choices result on someone else. You may be right that most guys are forced to see things this way due to the way we are raised as opposed to girls.
But if I think she was stupid then I will say so. I won't be an enabler or nice simply because she has a mental ailment. I have a mental ailment and I don't ever want anyone to try and use that to get me special points on any case not even this one. You are to treat me the way you would a person who does not have aspergers.
If you can do that then you can treat this girl the same way. You cannot grant special treatment to someone because one thing wrong with them or their life. You must take responsibility for your actions. Your being no different by enabling this then a religious nutjob who thinks that they can attack someone and say it happened because they were unrighteous. No it happened because you picked up a stick and attacked them you can't blame god or the devil that's just stupid.
This girl made her own choice and must deal with it and the grown woman made her choice and must deal with it. But I refuse to take sides and say who is in the right. I am just saying that because you are taking the girls side your judgement is altered to favor harsher punishment of the grown woman.
Please remember this. That is all I am trying to convey.
But if I think she was stupid then I will say so. I won't be an enabler or nice simply because she has a mental ailment. I have a mental ailment and I don't ever want anyone to try and use that to get me special points on any case not even this one. You are to treat me the way you would a person who does not have aspergers.
If you can do that then you can treat this girl the same way. You cannot grant special treatment to someone because one thing wrong with them or their life. You must take responsibility for your actions. Your being no different by enabling this then a religious nutjob who thinks that they can attack someone and say it happened because they were unrighteous. No it happened because you picked up a stick and attacked them you can't blame god or the devil that's just stupid.
This girl made her own choice and must deal with it and the grown woman made her choice and must deal with it. But I refuse to take sides and say who is in the right. I am just saying that because you are taking the girls side your judgement is altered to favor harsher punishment of the grown woman.
Please remember this. That is all I am trying to convey.
author=Tyranos link=topic=2798.msg53234#msg53234 date=1230769534
I am just saying that because you are taking the girls side your judgement is altered to favor harsher punishment of the grown woman.
I'm totally not saying that what this woman did was illegal, or even should have been. As I said before, (and we agree on this), that what should be illegal is posting people's info online without their consent, which could endanger others "for teh lulz."
I also agree that what she did was not sane or rational, and this is coming from someone who is a fairly insecure girl with depression.
But I do hold adults to a higher accountability than I do teens/preteens. And what this woman did was inexcusable, because not only did she act like a teenager herself, but she did this knowing that this young girl suffered from depression already. I am, and always have been, an ageist. I believe that children, and even some teens, do irrational and retarded and stupid things. But I also expect my age demographic and older to behave in a more rational and, well, adult manner.
No, what this woman did was NOT murder, not even a little. That, I could even understand more. There are PLENTY of adult murderers, plenty of adults that murder children.
But for a grown woman to stoop to the kind of stuff her teenage children would do, that to me is mindboggling.
Tyranos
1115
I wouldn't think about too hard though. That might just be want rationalized such behavior to her. After all the weak humans are always looking for ways to justify and rationalize their views.
I really would like to know what made her tick. For a grown woman to do something like this is very confusing. I think most people must have been confused about it after hearing about it.
Also don't put too much stock into women getting more mature as they get older. I still see older women gossiping about other people just like they did in middle school and high school. Just look at my mother talking with her friends about other women and men... :-\
I really would like to know what made her tick. For a grown woman to do something like this is very confusing. I think most people must have been confused about it after hearing about it.
Also don't put too much stock into women getting more mature as they get older. I still see older women gossiping about other people just like they did in middle school and high school. Just look at my mother talking with her friends about other women and men... :-\
The real Tyranos wouldn't be this cold :( j/k
My thoughts on this girl: She obviously shouldn't have killed herself. 13 is incredibly young, she couldn't possibly have any idea how the world works.
However, it's kind of sad how much focus and blame is thrown at the victims/targets. Harassing, insulting, profanity, cruel pranks, etc, are never justifiable. No one puts a gun to someone's head and tells them to harass people online, so the blame should fall on the aggressor. There are several ways to react to bullcrap, but in most cases, there shouldn't be anything to react to. This opinion is amazingly less prevalent than one would think, though.
My thoughts on this girl: She obviously shouldn't have killed herself. 13 is incredibly young, she couldn't possibly have any idea how the world works.
However, it's kind of sad how much focus and blame is thrown at the victims/targets. Harassing, insulting, profanity, cruel pranks, etc, are never justifiable. No one puts a gun to someone's head and tells them to harass people online, so the blame should fall on the aggressor. There are several ways to react to bullcrap, but in most cases, there shouldn't be anything to react to. This opinion is amazingly less prevalent than one would think, though.
Tyranos
1115
author=harmonic link=topic=2798.msg53246#msg53246 date=1230777728
The real Tyranos wouldn't be this cold :( j/k
Your right he would have just killed them both and stolen their money. :D
author=harmonic link=topic=2798.msg53246#msg53246 date=1230777728
My thoughts on this girl: She obviously shouldn't have killed herself. 13 is incredibly young, she couldn't possibly have any idea how the world works.
However, it's kind of sad how much focus and blame is thrown at the victims/targets. Harassing, insulting, profanity, cruel pranks, etc, are never justifiable. No one puts a gun to someone's head and tells them to harass people online, so the blame should fall on the aggressor. There are several ways to react to bullcrap, but in most cases, there shouldn't be anything to react to. This opinion is amazingly less prevalent than one would think, though.
Your way of thinking is interesting but honestly getting people to be nice to each other around the world is a bit unrealistic. It's like world peace. It CAN be done it's just not going to GET done.
It's because I'm not that foolish that I would much rather take the easier route of helping people become stronger mentally and emotionally. It's better then trying to make everyone in the entire world like each other.
Besides it takes more strength and courage to live then it does to die. Anyone can die. It's not that hard to die. Now show me you can live.
"Any fool can swing an axe, but it takes a true warrior to make it sing it's melee melody."
This means much more than one thing.
