RMN3 CHANGES (EVERYONE READ)

I'm completely against that decision. There'll be no real way to discuss and advertise releases, and even if freshly updated games get 'bumped' to the top of the list on the front page, I feel too many games will be neglected and ignored.

The changes to the game pages sound great, but getting rid of the Game Releases forum sounds like an absolutely terrible idea. I'll be blunt and state that whoever came up with that must've had a screw loose at the time.

You claim this'll bring games back to being the focus of this community, but I feel that by getting rid of the Game Releases forum in it's entirety will have the opposite effect on a gigantic scale. I wouldn't be suprised if many long term members stopped visiting the forums.

author=DE link=topic=2801.msg53346#msg53346 date=1230821878
I doubt many paople will want to comment on a game on a special "game page" compared to a forum topic. At least judging from the current state of RMN gamebase and a few other gamebases.

People don't comment on the games page because people put all the effort in the topic and have the game page as a throwaway place with outdated information and a download link.

Having both is essentially the worst solution of them all.

author=Shinan link=topic=2801.msg53348#msg53348 date=1230824254
People don't comment on the games page because people put all the effort in the topic and have the game page as a throwaway place with outdated information and a download link.

Having both is essentially the worst solution of them all.

Why? It's basically like that right now and it doesn't strike me as bad.

It's not that I'm opposed to the idea of a detailed gamebase, it's that people are more willing to post their comments on forums and not in gamebases. That's what forums are for. For posting comments.

When people come to a site and are not able to post about a game in the forums it's very likely they will not post about it at all. They are accustomed to using forums, and are not accustomed to using gamebases. It's that simple. They don't want to learn how to use a gamebase, they want to post on forums, because they're familiar with how forums function, and they always function in an identical way. Gamebases do not.

That's my main issue with removing the ability to present and discuss games on the forums. I'm afraid it will lead to even lower activity.

One of the biggest problems I have with this is the impression that I get from WIP that he's completely unwilling to compromise or take ideas from the userbase. It's one thing to be set in an idea, but...

I just don't like how stubborn he is, and I wish he was more open to suggestion from the very userbase that's loyal to the site and keeps it running (and by running, I mean keeps it circulating by downloading and adding games, tutorials, articles, etc). He gives the impression that everyone besides him is retarded or something, and it throws user input completely out the window.

I think this isn't a horrible idea, but I can't say I like it completely because it completely takes away from the forums. I understand part (if not most) is because WIP doesn't want people neglecting or not using something that he spent a lot of time making, but forcing people to do so is not the way to go.

I see it as a focus on "site" rather than "forum". Every single site is essentially a forum nowadays and I like that the page perhaps tries to get away from that a little bit.

I mean look at Gaming World, which is little more than a forum. Or RMXP.org which is ONLY a forum. I think that it's very good that one of these sites actually... you know... have a site?

Take Gamecake.net - it's just a collection of game pages, and doesn't have a sense of community. While that's totally useful, is that the direction we want to go?

I think it might be a good direction to go in. Communities are scary. It takes a certain investment to join one (for me anyway). I'd rather browse around than dig into forum posts. If I was a casual visitor that is. The page will obviously still keep enough personality to be something an interested party might want to join.

I'd say going for something a bit like Wikipedia is good. It's something you browse and read and use. And under it all is a huge community that you, yourself decide if you want to be part of. It's not obviously in your face but it's clearly there for anyone who wants it.


I also think the main page needs to be updated. I hear it isn't updated now because of waiting for RMN3, but when all has happened I think that there need to be "news" fairly often. There's "recently updated games" but the "news" can cover "significant updates" to "interesting games". Throwing in the Human Touch.

Now I've written a lot about things I really don't know anything about because I haven't really been following the development process nor contributed in any way. This is random thinking.

EDIT: Shite, a lot of posts happened while I was writing.

EDIT2:
I say when we remove GD&R, we introduce the Feedback forum I talked about:

Feedback -> game making drive posts, review request threads, reviewers requesting games threads, General Feedback Topic, screenshot topic, blog topic, podcasts

One thing I've seen work on another site (may not work here obviously), is user-submitted news. Of course it'd have to be moderated but important announcments by members could easily be thrown on the main page for everyone to see (Stuff like podcasts).

Even though I'm not opposed to the idea, I do wish we had a stable compromise.

I think it might be a good direction to go in. Communities are scary. It takes a certain investment to join one (for me anyway). I'd rather browse around than dig into forum posts. If I was a casual visitor that is. The page will obviously still keep enough personality to be something an interested party might want to join.

I'd say going for something a bit like Wikipedia is good. It's something you browse and read and use. And under it all is a huge community that you, yourself decide if you want to be part of. It's not obviously in your face but it's clearly there for anyone who wants it.

Oh, please, man. Are you kidding, communities are what keeps anything alive and running. That should never, ever be compromised. Besides, the option to keep to yourself instead of being a part of the community has always been there.

author=Shinan link=topic=2801.msg53363#msg53363 date=1230828806
One thing I've seen work on another site (may not work here obviously), is user-submitted news. Of course it'd have to be moderated but important announcments by members could easily be thrown on the main page for everyone to see (Stuff like podcasts).

Good idea. Implemented...after a fashion. Check out the new News Request thread in General.

Also, let the record show that WIP disagrees with my efforts to make RMN a fun place to hang out. I made Moronic, pushed for Game Design, Top 10 topics, the Introduction forum, and the Videogames forum. (Le tme stress efforts - I'm not saying that he's opposed to fun, but just the way I go about adding things willy nilly).

WIP is yang and I am yin.

Is it really going to be that much different?

You'll be able to leave comments and post reviews on games, there's no reason we can't have "Newest Reviews" and other "Newest X" content blocks where you can follow what you're interested in.

If you look at the forum right now it's just a list of the most recently "bumped" games, and it pretty accurately reflects the most recently updated as well. Honestly you can think of the game listing as a specialized forum with preview images and extra options.

Looking at the projects now the "comments" section is nothing but replies to the synopsis of your project... maybe it's just me but it seems that they're pretty close to the same.

I can see why that might feel more empty, but I think it's worth a try. The method we're using now is the standard one for basically every other RM site I've been on, I don't think it's a terrible idea for us to try something new.

Right now the thing that's being neglected is the Games section. Most people see it as a tack-on where you can upload your game and screenshots for Maker points, but most threads don't even link to their game pages!

Either can (and will/is being) abused, but having the duplicate functions is kinda silly.

I think a better focus would be how to better integrate the forums and the game sections; maybe like doing reviews in threads and being able to link threads with a tag to a game project? You could link a "Resource" thread to your project if you took resources from it, a "Review" thread could be linked by the reviewer once approved, etc.

It's always a bit scary to try something new, and not everyone will like it or be willing to adapt, but isn't everyone saying "Get away from the same old fantasy setting!" "Learn to make a new story!" "Be original!" "Too cliche!" over and over and over about games?

Let's follow that example and give something new a go to see if it will work. Unless we're okay being just another tired cliche.

@Feld: The reason there are people 'in charge' is that sometimes tough decisions need to be made that a lot of people aren't going to like. I'm not sure if this is the right decision or not, but this initiative wouldn't happen any other way.

But then that brings to the table the belief that having a functional, active, exciting main site page and a bustling forum based community are mutually exclusive, and they're not. You can have both!