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Anaryu
8848
Anaryu
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Closeauthor=Sam link=topic=2801.msg53334#msg53334 date=1230815996
I'm completely against that decision. There'll be no real way to discuss and advertise releases, and even if freshly updated games get 'bumped' to the top of the list on the front page, I feel too many games will be neglected and ignored.
The changes to the game pages sound great, but getting rid of the Game Releases forum sounds like an absolutely terrible idea. I'll be blunt and state that whoever came up with that must've had a screw loose at the time.
You claim this'll bring games back to being the focus of this community, but I feel that by getting rid of the Game Releases forum in it's entirety will have the opposite effect on a gigantic scale. I wouldn't be suprised if many long term members stopped visiting the forums.
I can't speak for this site, but from my experiences at GW and RMXP.org, sometimes the "old and long term members" had become so elite and comfortable in the environment that new people were dissuaded from doing anything because of it.
If we're striving to find new blood instead of just rehashing the existing, maybe something to shake up and put everyone on a level playing field isn't such a bad idea?
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2801.msg53379#msg53379 date=1230831796
But then that brings to the table the belief that having a functional, active, exciting main site page and a bustling forum based community are mutually exclusive, and they're not. You can have both!
Right now we have a semi busy forum with the same games always bubbling to the top, but new uploads of games in the Games section are summarily ignored.
Right now there is a problem and we need a solution. Talking and talking and talking hasn't gotten us anywhere, looks like some action is being forced onto us, and a LOT of people are pretty scared.
I'm a newbie, so change doesn't scare me as much as it does a lot of the long term members and people who have been around on the RM scene for a long time.
And you will! It's not like the forums are being removed is it? It's just that the main part of the site will actually be at the site instead of inside the community (forums).
Like I said before, it's more of the spirit I have a problem with than the actual idea, and even then, If I had a say I'd work for a compromise and use this topic as an opportunity to gather ideas and input from the very community that I plan to use the site, then to have the topic as 'THIS IS WHAT'S GOING DOWN AND YOU WILL COMPLY' type of thing.
I can't speak for this site, but from my experiences at GW and RMXP.org, sometimes the "old and long term members" had become so elite and comfortable in the environment that new people were dissuaded from doing anything because of it.
Seniority can always be something to be wary for, but a situation like GW and RMXP (which are remarkably similar communities) happens because of the attitude of the community itself, not because of the fundamentals that it runs on.
Anaryu
8848
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2801.msg53382#msg53382 date=1230832214And you will! It's not like the forums are being removed is it? It's just that the main part of the site will actually be at the site instead of inside the community (forums).
Like I said before, it's more of the spirit I have a problem with than the actual idea, and even then, If I had a say I'd work for a compromise and use this topic as an opportunity to gather ideas and input from the very community that I plan to use the site, then to have the topic as 'THIS IS WHAT'S GOING DOWN AND YOU WILL COMPLY' type of thing.
Not to be rude, but do you really think this would even work? I imagine if you traced back how the community started it was mostly an idea or two would spring up, someone would implement it, and then based on if it was well liked or not it was changed, removed, or replaced.
This is no different. If we sat and discussed it, where would we end up? A million opinions and no final decision or direction. WIP never said there would be no chances for feedback from the community, or that it won't evolve with use, or that there won't be a beta, just that this is the direction we're trying right now.
I can't speak for this site, but from my experiences at GW and RMXP.org, sometimes the "old and long term members" had become so elite and comfortable in the environment that new people were dissuaded from doing anything because of it.
Seniority can always be something to be wary for, but a situation like GW and RMXP (which are remarkably similar communities) happens because of the attitude of the community itself, not because of the fundamentals that it runs on.
But the only way to disrupt that is to break away the patterns that emerge. Honestly the thing that damages seniority the most is action and initiative. :V (This is a little something I've noticed over 5 years as an IT consultant.)
Not to be rude, but do you really think this would even work? I imagine if you traced back how the community started it was mostly an idea or two would spring up, someone would implement it, and then based on if it was well liked or not it was changed, removed, or replaced.
This is no different. If we sat and discussed it, where would we end up? A million opinions and no final decision or direction.
Hitler and Benito Mussolini would love you. No, I wasn't comparing anyone to Hitler or anything, but my point is having an overlord sentiment where decisions are made and finalized without any form of community input or 'democratic' (for lack of a better word) process just doesn't seem the way to go. We're not all little kids, and we all use this community. A parent figure isn't really needed.
WIP never said there would be no chances for feedback from the community, or that it won't evolve with use, or that there won't be a beta, just that this is the direction we're trying right now.
That's right, he never did say that, but you've never talked to him, have you?
But the only way to disrupt that is to break away the patterns that emerge. Honestly the thing that damages seniority the most is action and initiative. :V
No offense, but you've said you're relatively new to this community. Trust me, I've been around for a while, and what you say doesn't really apply to something like that.
Anaryu
8848
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2801.msg53389#msg53389 date=1230833457Not to be rude, but do you really think this would even work? I imagine if you traced back how the community started it was mostly an idea or two would spring up, someone would implement it, and then based on if it was well liked or not it was changed, removed, or replaced.
This is no different. If we sat and discussed it, where would we end up? A million opinions and no final decision or direction.
Hitler and Benito Mussolini would love you. No, I wasn't comparing anyone to Hitler or anything, but my point is having an overlord sentiment where decisions are made and finalized without any form of community input or 'democratic' (for lack of a better word) process just doesn't seem the way to go. We're not all little kids, and we all use this community. A parent figure isn't really needed.
Ah, taking it to the extreme? What I said was that no action HAS or very like WILL based on the past, happen purely from this "feedback."
Remember your post about new blood? Lots of great new ideas were given. Where did they all go? Nowhere.
If a parent figure wasn't needed, we wouldn't have all these concerns in the first place.
We can go back and forth all day; my point is merely that action doesn't usually result from discussion. Look at all the initiatives that exist; they weren't "discussed" they were simply started and improved each iteration.
Same. Thing.
I can also attribute your "community think" to being the basic Communist idea, but I didn't see a need to bring in terms that dredge up negative images because I don't like to make my point by trying to associate the other person with things we hold as "bad" values.
WIP never said there would be no chances for feedback from the community, or that it won't evolve with use, or that there won't be a beta, just that this is the direction we're trying right now.That's right, he never did say that, but you've never talked to him, have you?
Honestly? I've talked to him a few times. He had me giving him feedback on RMN3 graphics, design, and even the site functionality. He implemented a lot of fixes and thoughts while I was in an IRC chat with him.
Does that count?
But the only way to disrupt that is to break away the patterns that emerge. Honestly the thing that damages seniority the most is action and initiative. :VNo offense, but you've said you're relatively new to this community. Trust me, I've been around for a while, and what you say doesn't really apply to something like that.
Then why are so many of the long-term members so scared by the changes and newer less visible ones like me seemingly okay with it? Probably because we have no idea how the world is or how this community works, we're new and we don't really have an educated say in what this community really needs, right? :)
Ah, taking it to the extreme? What I said was that no action HAS or very like WILL based on the past, happen purely from this "feedback."
Remember your post about new blood? Lots of great new ideas were given. Where did they all go? Nowhere.
If a parent figure wasn't needed, we wouldn't have all these concerns in the first place.
We can go back and forth all day; my point is merely that action doesn't usually result from discussion. Look at all the initiatives that exist; they weren't "discussed" they were simply started and improved each iteration.
Same. Thing.
I can also attribute your "community think" to being the basic Communist idea, but I didn't see a need to bring in terms that dredge up negative images because I don't like to make my point by trying to associate the other person with things we hold as "bad" values.
To be honest with you I'm combing through the topic right now and there wasn't really anything that we 1. Already didn't have 2. The administration was cooking up or planning to or 3. Weren't practical to implement.
The reason some ideas have trouble being implemented is because of a lack of power to make it happen. It's not because we're all a bunch of wishy washies, it's because for a lot of great ideas, there's little room to turn it into a reality. And besides, that's not being fair; do you know how many ideas that have been suggested that have turned into great things? None of what you're saying requires a parent figure, just a team of people that want to make things happen for the sake of the community.
Honestly? I've talked to him a few times. He had me giving him feedback on RMN3 graphics, design, and even the site functionality. He implemented a lot of fixes and thoughts while I was in an IRC chat with him.
Does that count?
Yeah it does. I'm not saying that WIP is bad person or anything so please nobody get that impression. I'm just speaking from the angle that I have from having a lot of debates and disagreements with him.
Then why are so many of the long-term members so scared by the changes and newer less visible ones like me seemingly okay with it? Probably because we have no idea how the world is or how this community works, we're new and we don't really have a good say in what this community really needs, right?
People fear change, I'm aware. I'm not saying that we shouldn't change, this idea shouldn't happen (in some capacity anyway) and that everyone shouldn't stop being scared. I'm just iffy about the spirit and the principle of this change.
http://wip.rpgmaker.net/images/rmn3_comparison.png
This is an image taken from RMN3. Top section is a cut from the forum, bottom from the game list. We can see in both of these that there is a Beloved Rapture link. The information displayed is not much different between the two at the moment. With the game list, however, it can show a screenshot and the game's average review rating. I plan to include extra information on here such as engine and genre.
There will be options to sort and filter the game list. You can filter by genre, engine, minimum rating and sort by pretty much everything.
RSS feeds are going to be integrated into part of the site, but I haven't worked on it yet.
Mog, why is it that instead of offering reasons against this idea (such as DE, iish, and Sam have done), you immediately jump in to attack me and question the "spirit" behind the decision? If you are going to attack or question anything, please make it the idea and not me.
This is an image taken from RMN3. Top section is a cut from the forum, bottom from the game list. We can see in both of these that there is a Beloved Rapture link. The information displayed is not much different between the two at the moment. With the game list, however, it can show a screenshot and the game's average review rating. I plan to include extra information on here such as engine and genre.
There will be options to sort and filter the game list. You can filter by genre, engine, minimum rating and sort by pretty much everything.
RSS feeds are going to be integrated into part of the site, but I haven't worked on it yet.
Mog, why is it that instead of offering reasons against this idea (such as DE, iish, and Sam have done), you immediately jump in to attack me and question the "spirit" behind the decision? If you are going to attack or question anything, please make it the idea and not me.
Mog, why is it that instead of offering reasons against this idea (such as DE, iish, and Sam have done), you immediately jump in to attack me and question the "spirit" behind the decision? If you are going to attack or question anything, please make it the idea and not me.
I apologize! I don't mean to attack you or anything, man. But as I already said before (to you on AIM and in this topic) I don't really have that much of an issue with the idea itself, I'm just concerned about how you'll implement it and the community, etc. This whole thing is your creation, and the idea and you can be considered as one and the same. Considering the conversations we've had in the past, I'm concerned. I'm just voicing that concern but I don't mean to attack you in particular.
(it also feels futile to attack or question the idea if you have the feeling that it won't be changed no matter what we say)
But if you want feedback on the idea or me to focus my questions towards that, here's what I think; the idea you have for posting games on the site is fantastic. It's literally one of the best ideas for a gamemaking site I've ever seen, and that's sincere. However, the idea to completely disallow the traditional gamemaking topics on the forums seems like a bad idea at first glance. DE put it very well when he said
It's not that I'm opposed to the idea of a detailed gamebase, it's that people are more willing to post their comments on forums and not in gamebases. That's what forums are for. For posting comments.
When people come to a site and are not able to post about a game in the forums it's very likely they will not post about it at all. They are accustomed to using forums, and are not accustomed to using gamebases. It's that simple. They don't want to learn how to use a gamebase, they want to post on forums, because they're familiar with how forums function, and they always function in an identical way. Gamebases do not.
That's my main issue with removing the ability to present and discuss games on the forums. I'm afraid it will lead to even lower activity.
That's something to consider. New people may not be willing to do all of this technical stuff just to get their game out and known. Learning an entire new set of skills (and having to maintain your game page, etc) just to say 'Hey guys check out my demo' will alienate a lot of people, I believe. Gamebases aren't a reliable enough way yet to completely sustain a game making community, given that many people just would like simple feedback on a demo, and wouldn't be willing to maintain a gamebase and keep it at the top of the page just to get some simple feedback on something.
To those people, you may say 'fuck em', their loss', but that's a very substantial part of the community, I feel. That's why I think the best thing to do is to give people options. By all means keep the gamebases idea and don't change a thing, but allowing people the option to post their game on the forums allows security, activity, and circulation, and here's the best part, if the gamebase idea turns out to be a huge hit, people will see that for themselves, gravitate from the forums to post their games on their own, and learn to use the gamebase, without being forced to.
Mog, invoking Godwin's Law? Seriously? :/
I think you guys also underestimate the number of lurkers that hang out on game pages and have no interest in posting on the forums at all. There's quite a few of them and they often post comments on game pages. Want an example? Look at LoD's comments page.
In a way, this is actually about combining those two separate communities. If you really want to talk about games outside of the game pages, try IRC. It's getting busier.
And for the record, I have been around this community since 1999-2000 and I personally like the idea. Every RM* community that has become large through a forum has honestly turned out pretty shit, including the modern XP/VX-oriented sites. Whether the idea fails or succeeds, at least we tried a differing method from the norm.
I think you guys also underestimate the number of lurkers that hang out on game pages and have no interest in posting on the forums at all. There's quite a few of them and they often post comments on game pages. Want an example? Look at LoD's comments page.
In a way, this is actually about combining those two separate communities. If you really want to talk about games outside of the game pages, try IRC. It's getting busier.
And for the record, I have been around this community since 1999-2000 and I personally like the idea. Every RM* community that has become large through a forum has honestly turned out pretty shit, including the modern XP/VX-oriented sites. Whether the idea fails or succeeds, at least we tried a differing method from the norm.
Yikes, I did invoke Godwins Law. Ouch, low point for me. But yeah, I'm all about options. Let the people choose what they want to do, and if the better option presents itself (like gamebases over forum topics about games, if we could have both) were to present itself, people aren't stupid, they'll go with that. The reason why completely forum based RM communities got bad was because that was the only option they had.
I realize my word/opinion isn't more important than anyone elses, I'm just passionate about my opinion, and with that, I'll step out and let others voice theirs.
I realize my word/opinion isn't more important than anyone elses, I'm just passionate about my opinion, and with that, I'll step out and let others voice theirs.
S. F. LaValle
1069
If this subject wasn't open to discussion, the topic would have been locked after first post.
To say this is a good idea or bad idea is premature. The reasoning and "spirit" if you will behind the decision is good. RMN is a website. And, just like other gaming community websites, most people will click straight to the forums or even bookmark directly to them. Games on this site essentially exist as forum posts. No one here has a problem with that. Why? Because people who do have a problem with it have moved on.
This change isn't about segregating games and community. It's about bringing games to the forefront, along with the community. It gives the bypasser a glance at what's cooking in the community as soon as the website is loaded. On top of that, it is providing our game developers with much better tools in which to advertise and discuss our games. This is natural because amateur games is what this site is all about.
So let's talk about the price this comes with: no more GD&R. The old, worn, but undeniably reliable vehicle that delivers us to the heart of this community. I admit that it is a frightening proposition. I also happen to agree that these changes could have been made without the loss of GD&R. However, I also believe that doing so will allow us to provide greater focus and functionality on games, their development, and their discussion.
After only a few minutes of speaking with WIP, I was able to determine that WIP does have something in the works to bring the games page to the forums in the form of a post listing, just like the existing GD&R forum. The only difference will be that the link will take you to the game's homepage where you can view updates, media, reviews and more along with the forum-style discussion we're all used to. WIP said it's also possible to implement sorting this list by recent discussion, as opposed to recent updates, so that we can all continue to be involved in the hottest discussions. With these features possibly implemented, would you see any disadvantages to the new changes?
WIP does have the right to change or focus the direction of this site. However, he is not a dictator that wants to do only what serves him best. It takes a good deal of money and time to bring us this community, and it is very gracious of RMN's staff to continually look toward the site's improvement. They do not cater us yet, yet they seek a grander scheme to bring more of us together. For this reason, if you are someone that is simply happy with the way things are, please bear with the changes and continue to provide input to help the heart of the community flourish.
Most importantly, discuss.
To say this is a good idea or bad idea is premature. The reasoning and "spirit" if you will behind the decision is good. RMN is a website. And, just like other gaming community websites, most people will click straight to the forums or even bookmark directly to them. Games on this site essentially exist as forum posts. No one here has a problem with that. Why? Because people who do have a problem with it have moved on.
This change isn't about segregating games and community. It's about bringing games to the forefront, along with the community. It gives the bypasser a glance at what's cooking in the community as soon as the website is loaded. On top of that, it is providing our game developers with much better tools in which to advertise and discuss our games. This is natural because amateur games is what this site is all about.
So let's talk about the price this comes with: no more GD&R. The old, worn, but undeniably reliable vehicle that delivers us to the heart of this community. I admit that it is a frightening proposition. I also happen to agree that these changes could have been made without the loss of GD&R. However, I also believe that doing so will allow us to provide greater focus and functionality on games, their development, and their discussion.
After only a few minutes of speaking with WIP, I was able to determine that WIP does have something in the works to bring the games page to the forums in the form of a post listing, just like the existing GD&R forum. The only difference will be that the link will take you to the game's homepage where you can view updates, media, reviews and more along with the forum-style discussion we're all used to. WIP said it's also possible to implement sorting this list by recent discussion, as opposed to recent updates, so that we can all continue to be involved in the hottest discussions. With these features possibly implemented, would you see any disadvantages to the new changes?
WIP does have the right to change or focus the direction of this site. However, he is not a dictator that wants to do only what serves him best. It takes a good deal of money and time to bring us this community, and it is very gracious of RMN's staff to continually look toward the site's improvement. They do not cater us yet, yet they seek a grander scheme to bring more of us together. For this reason, if you are someone that is simply happy with the way things are, please bear with the changes and continue to provide input to help the heart of the community flourish.
Most importantly, discuss.
author=Shinan link=topic=2801.msg53348#msg53348 date=1230824254author=DE link=topic=2801.msg53346#msg53346 date=1230821878
I doubt many paople will want to comment on a game on a special "game page" compared to a forum topic. At least judging from the current state of RMN gamebase and a few other gamebases.
People don't comment on the games page because people put all the effort in the topic and have the game page as a throwaway place with outdated information and a download link.
Having both is essentially the worst solution of them all.
I also use the website for things! And I've got lots of comments on it I haven't gotten on the forums! However, and this is important...ALSO VICE VERSA! I've gotten comments on the forums I haven't gotten from the game pages. And I have the same info up both places!
author=Fallen-Griever link=topic=2801.msg53350#msg53350 date=1230825031
And RPGMaker forum where people can't post about their RPGMaker games...
Wait, what?! Was someone doing drugs when they were designing the new version of the website? I honestly never look at the game pages unless I go through forum links, because the forum is an easier way to quickly scan through what is new and what I might want to play.
I completely disagree with the bolded text, and am still totally against this idea! I think the bolded text is exactly WHY WIP is implementing these changes in the first place though.
Oh, please, man. Are you kidding, communities are what keeps anything alive and running. That should never, ever be compromised. Besides, the option to keep to yourself instead of being a part of the community has always been there.
Feld:
Most of my favorite feedback on my games- let's be honest, not bug reports or harsh critiques but unadulterated praise- has come from random strangers totally outside of the community. Usually via random e-mails to my yahoo mail account. What WIP is doing will cause us to have a larger AUDIENCE but less critical response from our peers.
I would prefer a system that allows both!
author=WIP link=topic=2801.msg53396#msg53396 date=1230835904
http://wip.rpgmaker.net/images/rmn3_comparison.png
This is an image taken from RMN3. Top section is a cut from the forum, bottom from the game list. We can see in both of these that there is a Beloved Rapture link. The information displayed is not much different between the two at the moment. With the game list, however, it can show a screenshot and the game's average review rating. I plan to include extra information on here such as engine and genre.
There will be options to sort and filter the game list. You can filter by genre, engine, minimum rating and sort by pretty much everything.
RSS feeds are going to be integrated into part of the site, but I haven't worked on it yet.
Mog, why is it that instead of offering reasons against this idea (such as DE, iish, and Sam have done), you immediately jump in to attack me and question the "spirit" behind the decision? If you are going to attack or question anything, please make it the idea and not me.
You need a system for users being able to flag or notify about bad, BS, or spite fueled reviews. Either that or remove the rate up rate down system. Game ratings right now only have like a 40% chance of correlating to the game's actual quality AT ALL, and I think if we took a poll we'd find out this isn't a subjective statement. Removing the stupid "rate up, rate down" thing and instead relying on reviews with some degree of intelligent reasoning would help.
But if you want feedback on the idea or me to focus my questions towards that, here's what I think; the idea you have for posting games on the site is fantastic. It's literally one of the best ideas for a gamemaking site I've ever seen, and that's sincere.
YOU DO KNOW WE ALREADY HAVE THIS, RIGHT? If more people paid attention to the site in the first place, this god damn change wouldn't necessarily be so drastic.
author=Max McGee link=topic=2801.msg53408#msg53408 date=1230841498
I also use the website for things! And I've got lots of comments on it I haven't gotten on the forums! However, and this is important...ALSO VICE VERSA! I've gotten comments on the forums I haven't gotten from the game pages. And I have the same info up both places!
Welcome to the Twilight Zone.
I think critical response is likely to be improved, Max. Instead of having to dig through random forum topics that you incessantly bump, they can just go to your game page to do so. Please read SFL's post for why this is likely, especially the bit on the aggregate game page forum. The result is the same, but based on actual updates and not stuff like "I BUMP HERE"(which, for the record, is a terrible way to ask for critiques).
Also worth noting, in regard to Max's concern about reviews:
The rate up/down system will be gone. Also, bullshit reviews (blame Kentona! I wasn't staff yet*) are already being rejected. Unfortunately, this site's lax policies regarding submissions early on resulted in a fair helping of crappy reviews on some of the older games. And it simply takes a lot of time to get rid of them.
You shouldn't have random crap reviews for your games, though. We have gotten much more strict in the last six months or so, and will have guidelines for what kind of reviews can/will be accepted in RMN3.
* P.S - I love you Kentona. =)
Also worth noting, in regard to Max's concern about reviews:
The rate up/down system will be gone. Also, bullshit reviews (blame Kentona! I wasn't staff yet*) are already being rejected. Unfortunately, this site's lax policies regarding submissions early on resulted in a fair helping of crappy reviews on some of the older games. And it simply takes a lot of time to get rid of them.
You shouldn't have random crap reviews for your games, though. We have gotten much more strict in the last six months or so, and will have guidelines for what kind of reviews can/will be accepted in RMN3.
* P.S - I love you Kentona. =)
Few points:
1) Rate up/rate down is being removed.
2) Release Something is staying.
3) A game's rating is based solely upon reviews. Reviews have a word minimum.
1) Rate up/rate down is being removed.
2) Release Something is staying.
3) A game's rating is based solely upon reviews. Reviews have a word minimum.
Instead of having to dig through random forum topics that you incessantly bump, they can just go to your game page to do so.
I just have one major concern about this change:
Advertising.
Yes, I know, active content will "float to the top" of the page." But, what about completed games? What about games that take months between people posting changes (let's face it, despite hard effort made on games, no one makes substantial changes within a day!)? Will people's most prized projects wither and die because they are complete? I feel this is counter-intuitive and actively discourages people from completing their games, or posting their completed games on the site.
Also, I don't know how the list will be, but giving us a bunch of titles in a row is not the same as advertising. More than likely, people will read a title and say "this isn't for me" automatically, ignoring what could have been a perfectly good game because more info is not given to them (and yes, they could just click on the game page, but if they don't know more about the project, they're likely not to do that).
By taking away gamemakers' means of advertising, you're taking away a HUGE part of the creative process. There is nothing, nothing more important to creating art than selling it.
Tell me the difference between what I have shown and a forum thread.
Not only that, here is a scenario: if you have a completed game and it has been completed for two months, how are people supposed to find it in a forum? You have to dig through pages and pages of old forum threads.
Know how you find completed games in RMN3? Just select "Completed".
Not only that, here is a scenario: if you have a completed game and it has been completed for two months, how are people supposed to find it in a forum? You have to dig through pages and pages of old forum threads.
Know how you find completed games in RMN3? Just select "Completed".
demondestiny
889
author=WIP link=topic=2801.msg53432#msg53432 date=1230847046
Few points:
1) Rate up/rate down is being removed.
2) Release Something is staying.
3) A game's rating is based solely upon reviews. Reviews have a word minimum.
Sounds good and i'm glad Release Something is staying.
author=WIP link=topic=2801.msg53434#msg53434 date=1230847423
Not only that, here is a scenario: if you have a completed game and it has been completed for two months, how are people supposed to find it in a forum? You have to dig through pages and pages of old forum threads.
Because it isn't adding content to a thread that bumps it, it's continued discussion about it that does.
You're removing that mechanic - therefore, old games will be more easily lost.
I think the main difference between your opinion of valid bumping and mine is pretty substantial - you think bumping should happen only when the CREATOR has something new to say. The forums make bumping happen whenever ANYONE has something to say about the subject.
When people see a creator add content, it doesn't tell them how good the content is. But when people see a forum with lots and lots of replies, aka a thread that keeps being bumped by OTHER users, they have more faith in the project.
Also, the difference between people seeing a list of game pages and a list of forum threads? It's all very mental/psychological. Your readers are used to looking at a forum when they want to discuss (bringing us back to the original purpose of a "forum," like in ancient times), and looking at a game page when they want to play.
Since a forum is engraved into all our minds as a "place of discussion," people are more likely to click on a thread and read about it, read the discussion about it, even if they don't initially intend to play the game. However, I fear that less people will click on a game page because of the mentality, "why would I play this? It doesn't sound interesting to me." No one equates a game page with discussion as much as one equates a forum is discussion - and for good reason!
Trying to ram a new paradigm down your consumers' throats is never a good idea, no matter how well intentioned. I know this from recent experience - you'll get more stubbornness in return than you ever thought possible. More than likely, people will continue in the way they've always continued, because humans are like that. When they like something, they don't easily change. So most likely your forumgoers will continue going on the forum and ignoring the game pages - as they have done. And if they see a game page they know nothing about, they will be more inclined to ignore it than a forum thread, which seems less threatening and more noncommittal.
Blind
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author=aprilschild link=topic=2801.msg53438#msg53438 date=1230848098
Trying to ram a new paradigm down your consumers' throats is never a good idea, no matter how well intentioned. I know this from recent experience - you'll get more stubbornness in return than you ever thought possible. More than likely, people will continue in the way they've always continued, because humans are like that. When they like something, they don't easily change. So most likely your forumgoers will continue going on the forum and ignoring the game pages - as they have done. And if they see a game page they know nothing about, they will be more inclined to ignore it than a forum thread, which seems less threatening and more noncommittal.
