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COMMUNITY DISCUSSION: SO LET'S TAKE MORE PRIDE IN OURSELVES.
Posts
kentona
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CloseYou forgot yourself, Max. You've been a lightningrod for activity at any forum you've frequented. Plus you've released a lot of quality games and reviews.
And good ol' Holb pays the bills.
And good ol' Holb pays the bills.
Anaryu
8848
@Anaryu: This statement comes with a caveat of my personal bias, but I would say on the whole, there are far less "GREAT" RMXP games than there are "GREAT" RM2k3 games, even though each engine had an equal time being the "newest" maker, and each engine has now had an equal time being the "second newest" maker. Why do you think this is?
1. People stick to the XP/VX or 2K/2K3 culture so their experience is lost and the newer culture is 'starting from square one' in design
2. 2K/2K3 culture lacks the flood of new comers, instead having mostly experienced members releasing games that have been working on for a long time already
3. XP/VX usually expect original graphics, with RTP being the red-headed step-child newbies depend on (rips are heavily frowned upon)
4. Ignorance of the other side: Neither side experienced the growth by being a part of the the other culture and a majority hasn't even played more than one or two games from the other culture. (I don't know any good 2K3 games outside of Sacred Earth: Bonds, and that's only because I know Skie a bit.)
5. We're all too happy calling the other side stupid for not seeing the truth, it's easier.
There are lots more hurdles and problems, but I believe those are the major ones. Again, this is only my opinion though.
As for pride in the community? I still feel too much like an outsider to feel much pride; every time I start to feel in, arguments like this break out and we talk and talk and talk and rips each others arguments apart.
Not conductive to community togetherness since we spend too much time worrying about who is right and spin-doctoring so we sound like we're the ones with the answers. (See: this post)
As for pride in the community? I still feel too much like an outsider to feel much pride;
I guess 'pride' was a wrong word (?) because I don't mean pride in a 'HA MY GAME IS BETTER THAN YOURS EGOOOOO' sort of way but more like a 'Hey this is my community and I'm going to take care of it' sort of way.
every time I start to feel in, arguments like this break out and we talk and talk and talk and rips each others arguments apart.
Not conductive to community togetherness since we spend too much time trying to prove ourselves right and dance around other people's points.
I have never really felt any less close or felt less 'in' because I disagreed with someone in a friendly debate. If having convictions of your own and disgreeing with someone makes you feel less of a member of a community, man I don't know what to tell you!
This post is not about the merits of VX over 2k3. This post is merely telling you exactly why I use VX to create--as Max says--interesting games that people tend to enjoy playing (crazy, I know).
In this screenshot, an encounter is chasing the player. This can be done in RM2k/3. Can RM2k/3 use a single line of an event to determine distance? Can it have a built-in RUNNING/NOT RUNNING toggle that works flawlessly in order to determine how far the player has to be before the event starts chasing? Can it do this at 60fps?
This is impossible in rm2k3, but not really a big deal. What's going on here is the player interacting with a mini-dungeon... while also having the functionality of a title screen. This might not be important. What is important is anti-aliased text.
This menu needs a LOT of work, so just know that this is a MAJOR WIP. Those five stats? Using RMVX, I very easily coded them in. They directly affect everything in battle and in some parts of the game world. Sure, you could set up variables in RM2k/3 to represent this--I actually made a 2k3 CBS once with custom graphics that used a similar idea--but, uh... this is much better.
If you visit other RMVX sites, you've seen this battle system. I do it better, however, and in this single screenshot alone I can show you five billion things that make this > RM2k3 to create an interesting game. For one, I coded a second form of MP (seen in parenthesis next to the 'Wp' total; I haven't made a seperate bar yet) to be used for more physical attacks or just MAJOR BOOM-BOOMS. This can be done with FACESETS in RM2k/3 (hahahahahahahahahaha), but not effectively shown in the menu. Yeah, fixed. Also look at the ATB. Instead of being based on the average party AGI and number of participants (which makes 2k3 suck), I have the game set to run on a static AGI amount set by me, and the speed is based on relativity to that. This BY ITSELF makes battles perform lightyears ahead of 2k3.
What I'm saying here is that the merits of a program surely don't matter--nope! They don't limit artistic vision/gameplay in the least. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha.aaaaaaahhhhaaaaa.ha.ha.ha.
In this screenshot, an encounter is chasing the player. This can be done in RM2k/3. Can RM2k/3 use a single line of an event to determine distance? Can it have a built-in RUNNING/NOT RUNNING toggle that works flawlessly in order to determine how far the player has to be before the event starts chasing? Can it do this at 60fps?
This is impossible in rm2k3, but not really a big deal. What's going on here is the player interacting with a mini-dungeon... while also having the functionality of a title screen. This might not be important. What is important is anti-aliased text.
This menu needs a LOT of work, so just know that this is a MAJOR WIP. Those five stats? Using RMVX, I very easily coded them in. They directly affect everything in battle and in some parts of the game world. Sure, you could set up variables in RM2k/3 to represent this--I actually made a 2k3 CBS once with custom graphics that used a similar idea--but, uh... this is much better.
If you visit other RMVX sites, you've seen this battle system. I do it better, however, and in this single screenshot alone I can show you five billion things that make this > RM2k3 to create an interesting game. For one, I coded a second form of MP (seen in parenthesis next to the 'Wp' total; I haven't made a seperate bar yet) to be used for more physical attacks or just MAJOR BOOM-BOOMS. This can be done with FACESETS in RM2k/3 (hahahahahahahahahaha), but not effectively shown in the menu. Yeah, fixed. Also look at the ATB. Instead of being based on the average party AGI and number of participants (which makes 2k3 suck), I have the game set to run on a static AGI amount set by me, and the speed is based on relativity to that. This BY ITSELF makes battles perform lightyears ahead of 2k3.
What I'm saying here is that the merits of a program surely don't matter--nope! They don't limit artistic vision/gameplay in the least. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaha.aaaaaaahhhhaaaaa.ha.ha.ha.
ZPE
1562
How is ripping graphics considered a lowly act? Not everyone has the same computer art skills (or free time) as others, even then hunting for artists to make graphics is a turn off for most people anyway.
I agree with debates slightly, mostly it's counter-productive to what game making is about so on another forum it might be okay but here I'd rather stay away from wall reading things that can be discussed for entirety.
edit: Again, scripting. Bah.
I agree with debates slightly, mostly it's counter-productive to what game making is about so on another forum it might be okay but here I'd rather stay away from wall reading things that can be discussed for entirety.
edit: Again, scripting. Bah.
Anaryu
8848
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2884.msg55905#msg55905 date=1231875263As for pride in the community? I still feel too much like an outsider to feel much pride;
I guess 'pride' was a wrong word (?) because I don't mean pride in a 'HA MY GAME IS BETTER THAN YOURS EGOOOOO' sort of way but more like a 'Hey this is my community and I'm going to take care of it' sort of way.every time I start to feel in, arguments like this break out and we talk and talk and talk and rips each others arguments apart.
Not conductive to community togetherness since we spend too much time trying to prove ourselves right and dance around other people's points.
I have never really felt any less close or felt less 'in' because I disagreed with someone in a friendly debate. If having convictions of your own and disgreeing with someone makes you feel less of a member of a community, man I don't know what to tell you!
Case in point. Are these really friendly debates? We all act like they are, but it really just builds up pent-up frustration because nothing is ever solved. We just quote each other back and forth. And when the thread gets old? We make a new one and quote each other back and forth some more.
No new and original points were made here, this is stuff that's been rehashed a dozen times on multiple forums.
And I wasn't talking ego or anything like that when I talked about pride either, I meant whether or not I feel able to express my opinion openly here, and whether I feel welcome among the members in general.
I meant whether I can go somewhere else and say "I'm part of the RMN community." or if I feel I'd have to word it "I'm a member on the RMN site."
I agree with debates slightly, mostly it's counter-productive to what game making is about
I didn't intend on this topic to turn into a friendly debate, but even with that said, I don't really agree with that. You can learn (and I have learned) a lot of things in a friendly debate; it opens your mind to differing points of view and you learn from others opinions, which in turn translates to how you game is.
Case in point. Are these really friendly debates? We all act like they are, but it really just builds up pent-up frustration because nothing is ever solved. We just quote each other back and forth. And when the thread gets old? We make a new one and quote each other back and forth some more.
Seems pretty friendly to me! I'm not really frustrated at all, and I'm just discussing one viewpoint with another. There aren't any hard feelings or anything like that.
No new and original points were made here, this is stuff that's been rehashed a dozen times on multiple forums.
I've certainly learned a lot.
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2884.msg55907#msg55907 date=1231875548
Well Craze, let me know when I can port my year long project to VX and I'll get right on board.
Can people shut up about this because really I never told you to switch IMMEDIATELY I am just strutin' my stuff
ZPE
1562
author=Craze link=topic=2884.msg55911#msg55911 date=1231875740author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2884.msg55907#msg55907 date=1231875548
Well Craze, let me know when I can port my year long project to VX and I'll get right on board.
Can people shut up about this because really I never told you to switch IMMEDIATELY I am just strutin' my stuff
Well I'd rather use 2k3 tbh. It looks crap.
author=ZPE link=topic=2884.msg55913#msg55913 date=1231876298
Well I'd rather use 2k3 tbh. It looks crap.
This is an incredibly intelligent post. I can only hope that we look up to it as solid COMMUNITY DISCUSSION material.
ZPE
1562
author=Craze link=topic=2884.msg55914#msg55914 date=1231876404author=ZPE link=topic=2884.msg55913#msg55913 date=1231876298
Well I'd rather use 2k3 tbh. It looks crap.
This is an incredibly intelligent post. I can only hope that we look up to it as solid COMMUNITY DISCUSSION material.
I'm sure posting screenshots of your incomplete game is much more contributing.
Hey guys, can we uh, keep on topic please? And to be honest ONE MAKER vs. ANOTHER MAKER wasn't the point of this topic in the first place!
No new and original points were made here, this is stuff that's been rehashed a dozen times on multiple forums.I'm not really sure about this as this topic has really inspired me a bit! Great job guys, if there's a right way to go, discussions like this are it.
Also
Can RM2k/3 use a single line of an event to determine distance?Craze bought me into the VX crowd
ZPE: ...because screenshots of only complete games are worth it?
MOG: It is on topic. In order to take more pride in our work, we need to be able to evolve and catch up with the times. We've played so many indentical rm2k3 games, and they grow stale fast. The last 2k3 game that I remember enjoying was Balmung Cycle, but I eventually stopped because I got sick of little rm2k3 things--occasional locking up of the battle command menu, wrong turn order, slow battles, those low-res sprites, small screen size...
Keep making your 2k3 games, but when they are done, STOP.
Look at Forbidden Kingdom. It is the same old story of an unwilling hero taken to the extreme. It is also an incredible movie. It would make an incredible RPG if the same amount of SHINY and PRESENTATION (xp/vx vs. 2k3) were used.
In rm2k3, you can't even do something as single as change how hard a critical hit is. Without some attribute fiddling, you can't even make the Magic stat work well (unless you give it in large bursts in a low-number game like DFII). To take pride in something, YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO MAKE IT WORK FOR WHAT YOU WANT TO MAKE.
This is maker vs. maker. Deal with it.
MOG: It is on topic. In order to take more pride in our work, we need to be able to evolve and catch up with the times. We've played so many indentical rm2k3 games, and they grow stale fast. The last 2k3 game that I remember enjoying was Balmung Cycle, but I eventually stopped because I got sick of little rm2k3 things--occasional locking up of the battle command menu, wrong turn order, slow battles, those low-res sprites, small screen size...
Keep making your 2k3 games, but when they are done, STOP.
Look at Forbidden Kingdom. It is the same old story of an unwilling hero taken to the extreme. It is also an incredible movie. It would make an incredible RPG if the same amount of SHINY and PRESENTATION (xp/vx vs. 2k3) were used.
In rm2k3, you can't even do something as single as change how hard a critical hit is. Without some attribute fiddling, you can't even make the Magic stat work well (unless you give it in large bursts in a low-number game like DFII). To take pride in something, YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO MAKE IT WORK FOR WHAT YOU WANT TO MAKE.
This is maker vs. maker. Deal with it.
author=Craze link=topic=2884.msg55920#msg55920 date=1231877576
To take pride in something, YOU NEED TO BE ABLE TO MAKE IT WORK FOR WHAT YOU WANT TO MAKE.
Right on. Yes, you can make Dragon Fantasy II in rm2k3 just fine. With some eventing, you can make a primitive version of FF6.
Alternatively, you could pick up XP or VX and do it with a snap of your finger and some much prettier pixels. Like Karsuman pointed out, rm2k3 graphics look better in VX. If you don't agree, you're stubborn and need to stop gripping rm2k3 like your momma.
MOG: It is on topic. In order to take more pride in our work, we need to be able to evolve and catch up with the times. We've played so many indentical rm2k3 games, and they grow stale fast. The last 2k3 game that I remember enjoying was Balmung Cycle, but I eventually stopped because I got sick of little rm2k3 things--occasional locking up of the battle command menu, wrong turn order, slow battles, those low-res sprites, small screen size...
No, it isn't on topic. Maker vs. maker is a very old discussion and it is not what I had in mind when I made this topic. If this keeps going on I'd rather have the topic closed.
So how about it?
Well, if someone wanted to port NES DQ graphics to RMVX, I'd make a new game.
Anywho, back on topic: comraderie on an RM forum, and attitudes in general.
Why don't we just take it for what it is and not worry about it? We're striking a pretty good balance at RMN between new members and ancient members, RM2k/3 and VX, being nice and being critical, and participating in the community.
Yeah, you're not going to agree with everything about a community. You might resent that your game page isn't getting any comments, or no one seems to be reviewing anything, or that screenshot topics are circlejerks and games are generally crummy, newbies don't know anything and oldbies are stubborn and set in their ways, no one finishes projects, people are selfish, and snide, and rude, and RMN is getting really toxic.
Yeah, I have no point. Just live and let live, and realize that some things wouldn't exist if someone didn't find value in it.
Anywho, back on topic: comraderie on an RM forum, and attitudes in general.
Why don't we just take it for what it is and not worry about it? We're striking a pretty good balance at RMN between new members and ancient members, RM2k/3 and VX, being nice and being critical, and participating in the community.
Yeah, you're not going to agree with everything about a community. You might resent that your game page isn't getting any comments, or no one seems to be reviewing anything, or that screenshot topics are circlejerks and games are generally crummy, newbies don't know anything and oldbies are stubborn and set in their ways, no one finishes projects, people are selfish, and snide, and rude, and RMN is getting really toxic.
Yeah, I have no point. Just live and let live, and realize that some things wouldn't exist if someone didn't find value in it.
myersguy
292
How about this guys: Pick a maker, use which ever one you want. As long as you are ok with people not wanting to play your game because it was made in Maker X, then you should be happy.
What I am trying to get across is this: Yes, it is more likely for people to pick up and play XP and VX games with custom systems and the like, but if you like RM2K/3, then use it!
What I am trying to get across is this: Yes, it is more likely for people to pick up and play XP and VX games with custom systems and the like, but if you like RM2K/3, then use it!
