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maladroithim
1495
A full game is great, but not many people are going to play into a full game past where a demo would normally end anyway. An epic RPG is exhausting and if people don't have patience to finish a commercial RPG they probably don't have the patience to finish an amateur one. The very nature of amateur RPG game development facilitates demos/episodic releases.
A demo/episode showcases all of the same development that a full game would. Art, music, level design, writing, gameplay - it's not like one episode of a game doesn't have these things just because the story doesn't come to a conclusion.
A demo/episode showcases all of the same development that a full game would. Art, music, level design, writing, gameplay - it's not like one episode of a game doesn't have these things just because the story doesn't come to a conclusion.
Personally, my intent that started this whole demo vs. complete game debate was to argue that there should be at least one category, namely, the most prestigious award (call it GOY or Best Game) that demos couldn't be nominated for. The idea is to reward those who actually do the effort to produce completed games. One of the purposes of this would be that, hopefully, in time, completed games would start being more common in RMN. For now, we have a LOT in production (or is that indefinite Hiatus???, for many) or, worse, canceled.
I currently think that restricting nominations of all the other categories to completed games only is a bit too extreme and somewhat impractical. Once we start seeing more completed games, then I might agree with this restriction.
Brandonabley's suggestion of episodic releases for RPGs perhaps ought to be a model that more of you ought to look into instead of the traditional demo -> complete game. For reference, look at how The Way did, and currently ongoing, Master of the Wind and Quintessence have done it.
I currently think that restricting nominations of all the other categories to completed games only is a bit too extreme and somewhat impractical. Once we start seeing more completed games, then I might agree with this restriction.
Brandonabley's suggestion of episodic releases for RPGs perhaps ought to be a model that more of you ought to look into instead of the traditional demo -> complete game. For reference, look at how The Way did, and currently ongoing, Master of the Wind and Quintessence have done it.
Neophyte
155
author=brandonabley link=topic=2892.msg57337#msg57337 date=1232561508Exactly, don't discredit hard work because a game doesn't conclude (edit: tip, cheat by concluding with chapters). Though any demo that gets the nomination should be something that is still lengthy, and not consist of say...one or two levels/dungeons. It still has to maintain consistency throughout the game and its releases.
A full game is great, but not many people are going to play into a full game past where a demo would normally end anyway. An epic RPG is exhausting and if people don't have patience to finish a commercial RPG they probably don't have the patience to finish an amateur one. The very nature of amateur RPG game development facilitates demos/episodic releases.
A demo/episode showcases all of the same development that a full game would. Art, music, level design, writing, gameplay - it's not like one episode of a game doesn't have these things just because the story doesn't come to a conclusion.
So yes, Master of the Wind, Quintessence, Balmung, and Aedemphia are good examples of nominated demos. If these games did not release periodically, they would disappear into thin air; only to emerge 4 years later with a complete game that nobody even remembers (not to mention lack of feedback for those years).
edchuy, this is why I said to separate them into two categories. The Full game of the year takes the top spot light, while the demo of the year is in second place. Scrap game of the year, because there would be too many complications as to what qualifies and what doesn't. Simplify things by separating two types of games into two different categories.
Sam
2200
There really is a lack of completed games. If we disallowed demos, then it'd be both ignorant and lead to all of three, maybe four games being eligible for nomination.
At the end of the day, my view of a demo is that at least something's been released (much prefer demos to vaporware after all), and a demo can still display vast creative talents. They can even have satisfying conclusions if done right! Demos are supposed to close on a cliffhanger, an interesting point in the game which will leave the player wanting more, so they're rarely disatisfying unless they get that part wrong and just randomly cut out.
Hell, some demos are longer than some of the full, finished games! XD
At the end of the day, my view of a demo is that at least something's been released (much prefer demos to vaporware after all), and a demo can still display vast creative talents. They can even have satisfying conclusions if done right! Demos are supposed to close on a cliffhanger, an interesting point in the game which will leave the player wanting more, so they're rarely disatisfying unless they get that part wrong and just randomly cut out.
Hell, some demos are longer than some of the full, finished games! XD
I am pretty sure the whole issue stems from a large flock of retards that don't know what the words "demo", "alpha", "beta" and so forth mean.
Working list as of JAN 22, 2009:
Proposed Categories
GOTY
------------------
Game of the Year
1st Place - Offical Game of the Year
2nd Place
3rd Place
Honourable Mentions
Best RPG
Best Non-RPG
Sleeper Hit of the Year
Best Completed Game
Most Promising Demo
Writing
------------------
Best Plot
Best Dialogue
Best Cast of Characters
Best Protagonist
Best Villain
Best Character Design
Audiovisual
------------------
Best Atmosphere
Best Graphics & Artwork
Best Music & Sound
Best Music
Best Sound
Best Cinematics
Game Design
------------------
Most Technical Prowess (Coding Award)
Best Game Design
Best Level Design
Best Interface Design
Most Fun
Wisaos
-----------------
Worst Game of the Year
Biggest Disappointment (Overhyped Award)
Worst Case of Vaporitis
20 Misaos proper, 3 Wisaos (or, in physics, Anti-Misaos)
Proposed Categories
GOTY
------------------
Game of the Year
2nd Place
3rd Place
Honourable Mentions
Best RPG
Best Non-RPG
Sleeper Hit of the Year
Best Completed Game
Most Promising Demo
Writing
------------------
Best Plot
Best Dialogue
Best Protagonist
Best Villain
Best Character Design
Audiovisual
------------------
Best Atmosphere
Best Graphics & Artwork
Best Music & Sound
Best Cinematics
Game Design
------------------
Most Technical Prowess (Coding Award)
Best Game Design
Best Level Design
Best Interface Design
Most Fun
Wisaos
-----------------
Worst Game of the Year
Biggest Disappointment (Overhyped Award)
Worst Case of Vaporitis
20 Misaos proper, 3 Wisaos (or, in physics, Anti-Misaos)
Also, I want to iron out:
Game of the Year
1st Place - Offical Game of the Year
2nd Place
3rd Place
Honourable Mentions
Best RPG
Best Non-RPG
Sleeper Hit of the Year
Best Completed Game
Most Promising Demo
...we seem to have a lot of overlap now. I want to remove "Sleeper Hit" because our communities are so disjointed that a "sleeper" somewhere may be another forums smash hit.
Game of the Year
1st Place - Offical Game of the Year
2nd Place
3rd Place
Honourable Mentions
Best RPG
Best Non-RPG
Sleeper Hit of the Year
Best Completed Game
Most Promising Demo
...we seem to have a lot of overlap now. I want to remove "Sleeper Hit" because our communities are so disjointed that a "sleeper" somewhere may be another forums smash hit.
Nemau
30
Sorry if it's a wrong place to say that, but is Indinera ("DZK", Laxius Power saga creator) known here ? Cause I know he has won some Misaos for LP III. (I know him, he's in the french speaking community ^^) It's just for curiousity. ^^ (a time he was an ennemi to me but now he's more like a friend - ...hum sorry I tell my life ^^' xD)
Hum a thing more interessant for you : our RM competition in french speaking community. I think it's open for not french games, there is a special section for them. (I'm not sure, I will search if this interesting anybody :3)
(but I realize I'm not in the topic of this thread, sorry ^^)
Not english games are accepted in Misao ?
Hum a thing more interessant for you : our RM competition in french speaking community. I think it's open for not french games, there is a special section for them. (I'm not sure, I will search if this interesting anybody :3)
(but I realize I'm not in the topic of this thread, sorry ^^)
Not english games are accepted in Misao ?
Well, the Misaos are totally user nominated, so its possible to have non-english games in there. We don't specifically restrict non-english games.
The game had to have a significant (or full) release in 2008, however.
Our memberbase IS primarily english, so that's probably why you don't often see non-english games.
EDIT:
Is your award seriously called the Golden Alex award? That's awesome.
The game had to have a significant (or full) release in 2008, however.
Our memberbase IS primarily english, so that's probably why you don't often see non-english games.
EDIT:
Is your award seriously called the Golden Alex award? That's awesome.
maladroithim
1495
Kentona, nobody complained that Music and Sound were separated. How do you distinguish the triumph of a game like Backstage, with great sound design, versus an original soundtrack? This is really why I am pushing the issue because they are not the same thing even remotely.
Sam
2200
author=kentona link=topic=2892.msg57554#msg57554 date=1232637343
Also, I want to iron out:
Game of the Year
1st Place - Offical Game of the Year
2nd Place
3rd Place
Honourable Mentions
Best RPG
Best Non-RPG
Sleeper Hit of the Year
Best Completed Game
Most Promising Demo
...we seem to have a lot of overlap now. I want to remove "Sleeper Hit" because our communities are so disjointed that a "sleeper" somewhere may be another forums smash hit.
I don't see why some of those need to be removed. I'd say keep Game of the Yearr, and remove 2nd and 3rd, so it's just GOTY and honourable mentions. I also think Best RPG and Non RPG can be dropped as they'd both be covered under Game of the Year.
I agree with you on Sleeper Hit. That should go because what's well known in one forum may not be elsewhere, as you said.
I'd like to keep Best Completed Game and Most Promising Demo awards in. There was almost two pages of arguing over it, if we have a seperate award for completed and non-completed games it saves a ton of drama.
Nemau
30
Kentona > ok !
Is your award seriously called the Golden Alex award? That's awesome.Yes yes. ^^
author=brandonabley link=topic=2892.msg57578#msg57578 date=1232645119
Kentona, nobody complained that Music and Sound were separated. How do you distinguish the triumph of a game like Backstage, with great sound design, versus an original soundtrack? This is really why I am pushing the issue because they are not the same thing even remotely.
I agree, and (on a more OCD note) if you separate music and sound, and take out "music + sound," then each of the "design" categories have five awards in them.
author=Nemau link=topic=2892.msg57560#msg57560 date=1232639419
Sorry if it's a wrong place to say that, but is Indinera ("DZK", Laxius Power saga creator) known here ? Cause I know he has won some Misaos for LP III. (I know him, he's in the french speaking community ^^) It's just for curiousity. ^^ (a time he was an ennemi to me but now he's more like a friend - ...hum sorry I tell my life ^^' xD)
Hum a thing more interessant for you : our RM competition in french speaking community. I think it's open for not french games, there is a special section for them. (I'm not sure, I will search if this interesting anybody :3)
(but I realize I'm not in the topic of this thread, sorry ^^)
Not english games are accepted in Misao ?
Of course, DZK is known here. While RMN focuses on amateur and indie non-commercial (free!) games, his last release, Laxius Force, was released commercially as such has not been promoted here. I read he will continue to release free games from time to time, so it might not be the last time we hear from him in this forum ... There is another well-known french rpg maker (he also had one of the cjb.net web pages!), Kamau, author of the Legion Saga series of games; perhaps you heard of him as well?
Regarding non-English games, I don't see why they could be nominated for a Misao, if enough people do so. Although, given that you are talking about a game in a foreign language, it would seem quite unlikely but not impossible because of the so-called "language barrier". A more probable scenario would be if a game were translated into English but originally made in another language. I'm pretty sure we are missing out on some GREAT games probably because they happen to be in a foreign language (at least to most of us) and thus, don't get promoted here!
author=brandonabley link=topic=2892.msg57578#msg57578 date=1232645119Actually a lot of people did!
Kentona, nobody complained that Music and Sound were separated. How do you distinguish the triumph of a game like Backstage, with great sound design, versus an original soundtrack? This is really why I am pushing the issue because they are not the same thing even remotely.
Nemau
30
There is another well-known french rpg maker (he also had one of the cjb.net web pages!), Kamau, author of the Legion Saga series of games; perhaps you heard of him as well?]There is another well-known french rpg maker (he also had one of the cjb.net web pages!), Kamau, author of the Legion Saga series of games; perhaps you heard of him as well?oO
I'm very active in the all french speaking community since 3 years, and I've never heard about this maker and his game. ^^' Perhaps he's a french who has always only be in the english community. ^^ (...outch, I will learn more the past structure in english, it's difficult to me ^^')
Working list as of JAN 22, 2009 pt.2:
Proposed Categories
GOTY
------------------
Game of the Year
Best RPG
Best Non-RPG
Best Completed Game
Most Promising Demo
Writing
------------------
Best Plot
Best Dialogue
Best Protagonist
Best Villain
Best Character Design
Audiovisual
------------------
Best Atmosphere
Best Graphics & Artwork
Best Music
Best Sound
Best Cinematics
Game Design
------------------
Most Technical Prowess (Coding Award)
Best Game Design
Best Level Design
Best Interface Design
Most Fun
Wisaos
-----------------
Worst Game of the Year
Biggest Disappointment (Overhyped Award)
Worst Case of Vaporitis
20 Misaos proper, 3 Wisaos (or, in physics, Anti-Misaos)
Proposed Categories
GOTY
------------------
Game of the Year
Best RPG
Best Non-RPG
Best Completed Game
Most Promising Demo
Writing
------------------
Best Plot
Best Dialogue
Best Protagonist
Best Villain
Best Character Design
Audiovisual
------------------
Best Atmosphere
Best Graphics & Artwork
Best Music
Best Sound
Best Cinematics
Game Design
------------------
Most Technical Prowess (Coding Award)
Best Game Design
Best Level Design
Best Interface Design
Most Fun
Wisaos
-----------------
Worst Game of the Year
Biggest Disappointment (Overhyped Award)
Worst Case of Vaporitis
20 Misaos proper, 3 Wisaos (or, in physics, Anti-Misaos)
