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WHAT IS YOUR OPINION ON "FILLER"
Posts
Mitsuhide_The_Vagrant
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CloseIn many shows, mainly anime, as well as...well, anything that involves a plot-driven story, I suppose, the creator will often times throw in a "Filler Episode" which, if I'm not mistaken, refers to an episode or series of episodes that seemingly do not follow that main plotline or story.
I put seeminly in italics because I sometimes disagree with why they should not exist.
A great example of this is in actually in my favorite anime, Bleach. There are two immediately examples...
(1) The entire Bount arc is usually considered filler because it was not originally in the manga. It was added for the anime only. Because of this, people think It is not needed.
MY OPINION: While I did actually hate the Bount arc strictly because I don't like the Bounts themselves, I don't consider it filler. Why? Because Tite Kubo created it. Enough said. He made the anime/manga, he has the right to do whatever he wants to it. I am a writer and create stories like this myself, so I guess that's where my opinion comes from.
(2) In the middle of the series there was an episode or two that went back to Ichigo's family in the world of the living, which had nothing to do with the conflict going on at the time.
MY OPINION: Hell fucking yes these are filler. WTF!? Why go off on a completely random side-story that doesn't pertain the main characters in some, meaningful way!?. Sure, they are about Ichigo's sisters, but they are unimportant characters; we saw enough of them in the first 10 episodes!
The only type of "filler" I approve of, one that does not pertain to the current conflict at hand, is when it further's character development or a personal character's history. Or something like the bount arc, in which the protagonists are in a conflict with an enemy that does not have to be the main enemy of the series (in Bleach's case, this mean's Sosuke Aizen).
I look at a couple of my stories and I know there are parts that people may consider filler; again, screw you. I created/wrote it, I have the right to do whatever I wish to it.
EDIT: Also, many people consider most of Naruto filler (I don't watch Naruto, so correct me if I'm wrong about this). This is, from what I gather, because the main conflict deals with Orochimaru and Sasuke being evil. After a certain point, they kind of disappear, I think, and a multitude of new enemies and conflicts emerge.
MY OPINION: Not filler. So what if there not dealing with Orochimaru and Sasuke, it's still a legitimate part of the show; shut up and enjoy it. Again, though, I could be wrong about this, but those extra conflicts should't have been like, a shit-load of episodes long (is that right?), I will agree there.
So...
What's your opinion on the matter?
I put seeminly in italics because I sometimes disagree with why they should not exist.
A great example of this is in actually in my favorite anime, Bleach. There are two immediately examples...
(1) The entire Bount arc is usually considered filler because it was not originally in the manga. It was added for the anime only. Because of this, people think It is not needed.
MY OPINION: While I did actually hate the Bount arc strictly because I don't like the Bounts themselves, I don't consider it filler. Why? Because Tite Kubo created it. Enough said. He made the anime/manga, he has the right to do whatever he wants to it. I am a writer and create stories like this myself, so I guess that's where my opinion comes from.
(2) In the middle of the series there was an episode or two that went back to Ichigo's family in the world of the living, which had nothing to do with the conflict going on at the time.
MY OPINION: Hell fucking yes these are filler. WTF!? Why go off on a completely random side-story that doesn't pertain the main characters in some, meaningful way!?. Sure, they are about Ichigo's sisters, but they are unimportant characters; we saw enough of them in the first 10 episodes!
The only type of "filler" I approve of, one that does not pertain to the current conflict at hand, is when it further's character development or a personal character's history. Or something like the bount arc, in which the protagonists are in a conflict with an enemy that does not have to be the main enemy of the series (in Bleach's case, this mean's Sosuke Aizen).
I look at a couple of my stories and I know there are parts that people may consider filler; again, screw you. I created/wrote it, I have the right to do whatever I wish to it.
EDIT: Also, many people consider most of Naruto filler (I don't watch Naruto, so correct me if I'm wrong about this). This is, from what I gather, because the main conflict deals with Orochimaru and Sasuke being evil. After a certain point, they kind of disappear, I think, and a multitude of new enemies and conflicts emerge.
MY OPINION: Not filler. So what if there not dealing with Orochimaru and Sasuke, it's still a legitimate part of the show; shut up and enjoy it. Again, though, I could be wrong about this, but those extra conflicts should't have been like, a shit-load of episodes long (is that right?), I will agree there.
So...
What's your opinion on the matter?
Blind
2262
author=Mitsuhide_The_Vagrant link=topic=3532.msg70655#msg70655 date=1239735400If this is the case, why would it actually be considered filler, though? Unless you're strictly clinging to the idea of IF IT ISN'T IN THE MANGA, but that's kind of silly. If the content is meaningful and contributes well enough to the story arc, I don't particularly have a problem with it. I think it's more of an issue with material that's tacked on for entertainment's sake, and usually ends up faltering miserably.
The only type of "filler" I approve of, one that does not pertain to the current conflict at hand, is when it further's character development or a personal character's history.
Although not technically anime, I think Avatar was a wonderful example of balancing filler with substance. It had a nearly flawless story arc, and very few of the segments seemed tossed in arbitrarily. It was a shorter series, but it delivered consistently entertaining episodes, and I feel as though that's the ideal for most anime.
What is with producers' aversion to one-off series? Like, why don't we see short series or single season shows...outside of the UK, I guess.
I am basically wondering why people feel the need for filler in the first place.
The most convenient example of a perfect one-off show killed by fillerism is Prisonbreak. Had it stopped at just one season (ie- they broke out of prison) it would probably have gone down as one of the great TV shows of the decade. Instead, we're blasted with filler SEASONS 2, 3, and 4. WTF?
I hear the same thing happened to Lost, but I don't watch it.
I am basically wondering why people feel the need for filler in the first place.
The most convenient example of a perfect one-off show killed by fillerism is Prisonbreak. Had it stopped at just one season (ie- they broke out of prison) it would probably have gone down as one of the great TV shows of the decade. Instead, we're blasted with filler SEASONS 2, 3, and 4. WTF?
I hear the same thing happened to Lost, but I don't watch it.
author=Blindmind link=topic=3532.msg70659#msg70659 date=1239736564
If this is the case, why would it actually be considered filler, though?...
I actually forgot to say that. Yes, I would not consider it filler then.
author=kentona link=topic=3532.msg70664#msg70664 date=1239737100
What is with producers' aversion to one-off series? Like, why don't we see short series or single season shows...outside of the UK, I guess.
I am basically wondering why people feel the need for filler in the first place.
There are probably two reasons.
1 - The show is making them money and they would like to KEEP making money.
2 - They enjoyed making the series so much they do not want it to end just yet.
The second reason is more valid to me. I can understand.
If the writing team is good there is no filler; Every episode is interesting to watch even if the writers completly forget that the episode happened and is never brought up again.
Sam
2200
I usually consider filler to be anything that wasn't originally in the manga. Yes, some filler is written or planned by the original authours and that gives the filler more weight, but if it wasn't in the manga then it can be cut out or skipped over without consequence - therefore making it filler.
I see it as padding, a way to keep the audience occupied whenever the anime catches up to the manga and can't progress until the manga does. And significantly at that.
That said I do not hate filler. I can enjoy filler so long as it's well written. So long as it doesn't allow for any major plot holes and everyone stays in character. A good example would be Dragon Ball Z. OK, Piccolo destroys Goku's space pod in the Saiyan saga which means Goku could have never gotten to Namek - that was a screw up. But Yamcha, Tenshinhan, Kuririn and Choazu going back in time to fight Saiyans whilst trainign with Kami? That was fantastic!
I see it as padding, a way to keep the audience occupied whenever the anime catches up to the manga and can't progress until the manga does. And significantly at that.
That said I do not hate filler. I can enjoy filler so long as it's well written. So long as it doesn't allow for any major plot holes and everyone stays in character. A good example would be Dragon Ball Z. OK, Piccolo destroys Goku's space pod in the Saiyan saga which means Goku could have never gotten to Namek - that was a screw up. But Yamcha, Tenshinhan, Kuririn and Choazu going back in time to fight Saiyans whilst trainign with Kami? That was fantastic!
I like Charmed because you do not have to worry about filler; every single episode is filler and therefore it is perfect.
(I am being completely serious, by the way.)
(I am being completely serious, by the way.)
I used to watch Bleach a while ago, filler never really bothered me, I'd still watch it. I draw the line sometimes though. I'm pretty sure there was an episode called "Let's Bake a cake". Yeah.
author=Canuck link=topic=3532.msg70762#msg70762 date=1239789057
The Pyramid Level in the Aladdin video game for the SNES... that was definite filler.
Oh, totally!
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WTF!?
I'm okay with filler as long as it isn't 90% of the show. Most of the animes I've watched keep a pretty good balance and wrap things up around the 25th episode or so. But then there are shows like Pokemon, DBZ, Naruto, Bleach, etc. that just keep going and going and GOING AND GOING like the freakin' Energizer Bunny. I get sick of those, and I wish they'd resolve the plot conflict and end sometime. But, otherwise, I'm okay with certain levels of filler.
trance2
500
author=GreatRedSpirit link=topic=3532.msg70681#msg70681 date=1239743550Case-in-point I love for this is the revival of Doctor Who. Sure, there are quite a few filler episodes, but they're usually always so good that you're not even quite sure they're filler. And even though they're filler, instead of just making them pointless, the writers put some form of character development (or universe development) into the episode. Best example (using Doctor Who, of course) I can think of is the two-parter "Silence in the Library" and "Forest of the Dead," where-in, though it was filler, they developed the Doctor's character (and Donna's for that matter) and also gave some foreshadowing (that may or may not come to pass; there's still a lot of speculation about Dr. Song). Then again, there's also the fact that Steve Moffat is an amazing writer. *waits for the stone blows*
If the writing team is good there is no filler; Every episode is interesting to watch even if the writers completly forget that the episode happened and is never brought up again.
But filler for filler's sake without any point, rhyme, or reason to it is just stupid. Naruto, I'm looking at you. It's really why I like the short 4- or 12-ep anime. Sometimes 26 is fine if it's a decent show, but otherwise...
Haha, trance none of the current Doctor Who episodes are filler, but you only find that out in the big last-in-the-series arc. Little things crop up later!
..except maybe Midnight. Definite filler territory right there.
idk why you are waiting for stonings because Steven Moffat >>>>>>>> Russell T. Davies.
..except maybe Midnight. Definite filler territory right there.
idk why you are waiting for stonings because Steven Moffat >>>>>>>> Russell T. Davies.
Darken
3952
author=trance2 link=topic=3532.msg70938#msg70938 date=1239893256
It's really why I like the short 4- or 12-ep anime. Sometimes 26 is fine if it's a decent show, but otherwise...
Sums up the only anime I like. Unless it's something awesome like Fist of the North Star, because really you're only watching it for the manliness. The anime: Monster had like 70 episodes, but there was no filler because it was made after the manga was completed. Which I think is a perfect example of a long series done properly.
Bleach is a Visual CG Masterpiece, a Musical Masterpiece, and an Audio Engineering Masterpiece. The story is great, though if you don't like Guilty Gear you won't enjoy it.
Love Hina, the manga (for what it is), is a masterpiece and Love Hina is all filler, you could say, however it has loads of comedy.
I am just finishing up with a "Filler Episode" in my own production I guess you could say. The thing is, it's more like a side-plot but it builds the characters as it takes up 30 minutes of the 2 hours completed.
If it involves loads of comedy and builds characters, is it really a filler?
I think it should be dubbed "Side-Plot".
Love Hina, the manga (for what it is), is a masterpiece and Love Hina is all filler, you could say, however it has loads of comedy.
I am just finishing up with a "Filler Episode" in my own production I guess you could say. The thing is, it's more like a side-plot but it builds the characters as it takes up 30 minutes of the 2 hours completed.
If it involves loads of comedy and builds characters, is it really a filler?
I think it should be dubbed "Side-Plot".
Lennon
88
I really don't care for filler, and I think the reason is that it naturally comes with long ass never resolving shows/animes that go over 100 episodes. Like some people above my favorite shows are less than 30 episodes, but they are concise and to the point about everything, and they never really drag out something longer that it has to be. I beleive that the longest anime I've watched goes for 27 eps, a tie between Gurren Lagann and Utawarumono, and the shortest, at 13 eps is Hellsing.
I beleive that if you can't play out a story in 30 eps or less (thats 15 hours normally) then you either have a long story that deserves to go on longer, or a story that drags and never has a conclusion. I don't really think there's a middle ground to that.
I beleive that if you can't play out a story in 30 eps or less (thats 15 hours normally) then you either have a long story that deserves to go on longer, or a story that drags and never has a conclusion. I don't really think there's a middle ground to that.
Shinan
4314
I don't mind filler episodes if they're good. Occasionally "stand-alones" can be good. I consider standalones to basically be "fillers". Although I guess filler is more negative. But these fillers can give nice little character moments and explore certain themes not in the main arc. Also after a heavy arc-based plotline you need one or two lighter episodes as a break of sorts.
Babylon 5 had a clear format for this. Though I can't remember it exactly. But it was something like a maximum of three consequetive "heavy arc" episodes before you got a lighter one. I also think B5 is a good example because it was made in that era between heavy arc-based TV-shows and mainly standalone series. (Looking back at older TV-series most plot points were resolved in the episodes they happened nowadays nothing is resolved in the episodes instead you just get question after question after question and you can't enjoy an episode unless you've seen five seasons worth of episodes as well as read a couple of spinoff novels. (I'm looking at you LOST))
My favorite kind of filler episode is probably the "day in the life" episode. Where you follow a character during a "normal day at work". The way they're set up usually allows for either light comedic moments or great character moments (the best ones provide both). "Day in the life"-episodes include those that are about "other people visiting". Sometimes an episode will follow the main characters through the eyes of some very minor character we've never seen before or a camera crew documenting what happens in the place with the main characters.
Babylon 5 had a clear format for this. Though I can't remember it exactly. But it was something like a maximum of three consequetive "heavy arc" episodes before you got a lighter one. I also think B5 is a good example because it was made in that era between heavy arc-based TV-shows and mainly standalone series. (Looking back at older TV-series most plot points were resolved in the episodes they happened nowadays nothing is resolved in the episodes instead you just get question after question after question and you can't enjoy an episode unless you've seen five seasons worth of episodes as well as read a couple of spinoff novels. (I'm looking at you LOST))
My favorite kind of filler episode is probably the "day in the life" episode. Where you follow a character during a "normal day at work". The way they're set up usually allows for either light comedic moments or great character moments (the best ones provide both). "Day in the life"-episodes include those that are about "other people visiting". Sometimes an episode will follow the main characters through the eyes of some very minor character we've never seen before or a camera crew documenting what happens in the place with the main characters.
Mr. Y
300
I'm not too big an anime guy, and it's actually because I feel the stuff's plagued with this filler. I only appreciate 'filler' if it's not really filler at all- if I feel it expands on the characters or does something fun or new with them.
Since I'm not too familiar with ye olde anime, here are two cliche examples:
DBZ: Goku powering up!! Again!!
Cowboy Bebop: Spike teaches a (throw-away) guy a bit about fighting... who ends up getting shot because he's showing off.
In terms of other shows, yes, I am always kind of bummed when my favorite TV shows have 'filler' episodes rather than inching closer to resolving the story arc plots dangling over all the characters. But it isn't so bad if the filler is short-lived (maybe a few episodes... not a whole freaking story arc :o) and the main story is returned to shortly.
Since I'm not too familiar with ye olde anime, here are two cliche examples:
DBZ: Goku powering up!! Again!!
Cowboy Bebop: Spike teaches a (throw-away) guy a bit about fighting... who ends up getting shot because he's showing off.
In terms of other shows, yes, I am always kind of bummed when my favorite TV shows have 'filler' episodes rather than inching closer to resolving the story arc plots dangling over all the characters. But it isn't so bad if the filler is short-lived (maybe a few episodes... not a whole freaking story arc :o) and the main story is returned to shortly.
Shmeckie
422
author=Mr. Y link=topic=3532.msg72403#msg72403 date=1240775674
Cowboy Bebop: Spike teaches a (throw-away) guy a bit about fighting... who ends up getting shot because he's showing off.
That... wasn't filler. Or something that happened more than once. That was one episode, with one guy, as part of one plot.
