THE RPG DIFFICULTY PROBLEM

I guess in an RPG the best way to please most is to provide insane amounts of content as well as character builds that frankly suck but get access to neat stuff.

For example, focusing on a fighter character will make the battling through the game easy enough and for the inexperienced player battling is the only option they know of. A more experienced player might choose to make a diplomat to increase the difficulty of fighting but adding experiences when they're able to talk their way out of situations and fighting alternative routes to the otherwise obvious "kill stuff".

Of course it's best to make it obvious in the character creation or manual or something that certain builds will be more difficult for inexperienced players.

This is where the insane amounts of content comes in though, since no one wants to play a difficult useless build without any sort of reward at all. So it's important to make sure all builds are equally viable even if some of them are a tad more difficult.

author=gerkrt link=topic=3843.msg77156#msg77156 date=1243448833
Fixed clases/Flexible clases is only a PERSONAL option, it not make it better by itself. Is only about styles.

Also if i talked about FFX is for their "freedom". I say... freedom of being stupid. If you want to make Lulu a warrior you loose her inital states, the turbo influence, and a lot of more things. This is not freedom, is playing bad, is what i was saying as casual balance. You can play FFVII with all the materia in level 1, or put only magic materias in a character and quit his weapon. Then you have a totally inefficiente mage. ¿This is freedom?

The sphere grid is one of the more overrated things. Totally linear, also you see all tha table in the begining. ¿Nobody remeber when in FFV you havent a clue of how the jobs will evolve? Any other FF have a lot of more penalitzation.

FFX has everything. You can use 8 characters in battles. See the order. Change their equimpent. Sphere grid. Equipment system were you can do anything... etc,etc, but, its only FILLER for the casual player. For example, in a game like FFV having an armor that protects of an element was a totally limited and specialited strategic option. in FFX, you can make everything, make any defense or atack relations.But the truth is that this decisions count a lot less than in FFV.

With totally flexible and cheap equipment... chaning weapons in real-time, adapating with the others characters. The game will have to be 1000000 times harder to have any real depth. But as i said, the inbalance is not only about challengue, the FFX actual system is crap with or without it.

Demon Tower Demon Tower Demon Demon Demon Tower

A rule with any game is, for every ability to give the player, you have to provide ample opportunity for the player to exercise that ability with correlative rewards - otherwise it becomes pointless.

So, a diplomat skillset would be different than that of a warrior, but you'd have to make sure that there is (roughly) equal opportunity to use his skills as that as a warrior.

They make the gameplay less linear, which is what you said you hated about FFX. I was pointing out that you were wrong to make that observation. The Sphere Grid is possibly the least linear character development system in any Final Fantasy game.

In FFV you have 20 jobs... less linear of what? In FFVII/VIII you can make any role, mages, defensives, etc.. linear, lol. Its the same. A game non-linear is like FFV, where a lot of jobs have equal options, or in a CRPG like TES...

Also, playing bad is playing bad.

At least you have the chance to screw up in FFX. Especially playing in expert mode where it is very easy to make the game much more difficult than it has to be by just making the wrong sphere-grid choices. This shows that your "casual balance" idea is silly; casual players can very easily screw their shit up. In FFVII the stats are set up so you cannot screw any character development up - you just need to put the grinding time in - so this again defeats your point.

I know people that in FFVII not havent more than 10 magic of every, or in FFVII they switched materia in every moment and get stuck. In FFVII and VIII with only level stats you dont do ANYTHING. Magic and habilitys are totally overpowered, and without it you wont win. They aren't perfect games, FFV is so better, but they have a lot of more penalitzation than X. In X you can fail every moment with the sphere grid, because you have eternal options later and a ridiculous challengue.

You can see all the character development in Diablo II as well - does that make Diablo II's character system linear? Of course not. Being able to see the grid allows you to plan ahead and develop your characters exactly how you want them to be developed - how is total development freedom linear..?

Think in this, looking at the entire table is like playing any other FF with a complete walktrough. Using the Diablo II example is not fair, because it may have other gameplay or expecctatives.
FFX has a lot of less penalitzation and depth than other games... is like the minimap, we have a game with no dungeons at all and the simpler exploration of the saga, ¡¡¡and they gave us a minimap????

Different enemies can't even be hit by some of the characters on your team. Knowing what you are doing when you come across a certain enemy type is where the depth in FFX's battle-system comes into play. You need to know who you have developed to be effective in doing x and play to your strengths. This might not be particularly important in your normal monster battles, but there are some tough boss fights in FFX and the Dark Aeons are definately nothing to laugh about. I had less trouble killing the Weapons in FFVII because LOLOLKOTR

This not make the game better, in my opinion it make totally linear and predictable. The enemy pattern for this is totally simple, then with 4 elements all the combats became the same. Boring. Also, in every game this exists, and you can pass the game without doing nothing of this.

Also, this is a just a other piece of filler for the casual...

The secret bosses are EXTRAS, im bored that people only can talk about that to defend FFX. In every other game are SECUNDARY. Im talking about the main quest, not a bad pokemon copy...

Also, ¿you played FFVII with walktrough?I dont know anybody that took the KOTR before fighting weapons a lot of times. Even in this moment, mime and KOTR are not a simple combination without help or experiencie.

I think FFX have 0 intensity, is only to kill and waste time. 200h of repetitive and mindless combat and mechanics arent for me a sign of good gameplay, it think is better the old style... Example: FFV ozma: direct, intense and FUN! You can destroy it in every replay, and improve your skill.

I can't tell you why, is a matter of tastes. I like playing rpg in low levels and other challengues, and i love old school difficulty.

Just try playing like this, take your favorite RPG and play it without 20 levels.
But you have to changue your attitude, if your only objective is to view the next scene or animation, the gameplay will become a obstacle and you will hate it. You have to changue this mentality, and try to improve and think in every moment, looking for the challengue and personal reward.

I think its better to have a game where you can improve a lot and dominate every aspect of it. A lot of people play a lot of mindless games superficialy, but is not my stile.

Also, if you don't try to improve your skill in battle... ¿you like battles at all? ¿its fun for you? I think modern videogames gameplay is totally boring, and the fun comes from graphics, history or other factors. I'm not against it, but i think it will be perfect i we can improve the gameplay.

I avoid this problem pretty easily by having almost all of the monsters in my game not fight you unless you go up and talk to them (and they won't fight you again once you beat them) no grinding, no random battles

this is a very different way of doing things and I'm still figuring out how best to use this feature

author=gerkrt link=topic=3843.msg77364#msg77364 date=1243547642
I can't tell you why, is a matter of tastes. I like playing rpg in low levels and other challengues, and i love old school difficulty.

Just try playing like this, take your favorite RPG and play it without 20 levels.
But you have to changue your attitude, if your only objective is to view the next scene or animation, the gameplay will become a obstacle and you will hate it. You have to changue this mentality, and try to improve and think in every moment, looking for the challengue and personal reward.

Well, playing without 20 levels is a lot easier in Final Fantasy than Dragon Quest, as far as killing enemies, but good luck keeping them from bringing you up 20 levels or more just from fighting them.

I don't see it being possible to reach the last boss of Dragon Quest VIII at level 22- heck, you'll be pasted by Dhoulmagus, let alone the TRUE final boss, but I do see it possible to reach the last boss of Final Fantasy VI at level 40. Judging by the enemy levels in the World of Ruin, level 26 should be possible (but very, VERY hard). I usually come out of the World of Balance at level 32 or so, though. In Final Fantasy VII, though, you actually have to run from enemies for a long time to avoid going over level 40 by the end of the first disc. Why?

Because

Then again, Final Fantasy is infamous for allowing you to beat the game at single-digit levels with a special strategy (Final Fantasy V was beaten at level 9).

@VideoWizard :

That strategy exist in FFVI too. I almost did it. I think that if I fully did it, you can finish the game level 7 to 10, depending.

author=gotmilkxtreme2 link=topic=3843.msg78262#msg78262 date=1244049195
Make it hard for those who want it hard, and really easy for those who want to breeze by.

Agree to some extent, but RPGs aren't hard.

author=gotmilkxtreme2 link=topic=3843.msg78262#msg78262 date=1244049195
Making a game with cheats.

Not the solution.