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POPULARITY AND THE STATE OF THIS COMMUNITY
Posts
kentona
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Closepost=87276your mom is a herokentonaCan't say it was ugly since there was a uniqe ff4/ff5 blend with RTP style to it. HR was popular because it captured the essence of DQ3/FF5 so well that it triggers nostalgia bombs. I must also say the "I am a hero" gimmick back when GW was still overly active was genius.
This is very true. I got lucky - when I released my game there was a plethora of pretty high-detailed games with amazing production values, elaborate storylines and developed characters, whereas my game was an ugly RTP-fest old school RPG (it still is) and blah blah blah niche yada yada yada trends blah blah I got lucky.
ZPE
1562
I've seen more convincing rants and this one is pretty dire even if it is by a phd student. Did you want more attention by writing more reviews or something?
post=87197
breaking news: reputation counts for something
in our other story tonight: SCIENTISTS PROVE EXISTENCE OF 'OBVIOUS'
I?...agree?...with?...geodude?
/me questions the life choices that have lead him to this perilous crossroads.
post=87219
My favorite part about this is how WRONG you are, F-G.
You are forgetting one key element: We advertised V&V extremely aggressively, on like, a dozen or so sites, including a few rather large ones. This is the sole reason that it got as noticed as it did.
You think we are CHARMED or something, but really, you have no idea what you're talking about. Both of my own games (Philadelphia and Harbinger) have less than 200 downloads despite being old site submissions; Craze usually advertises on multiple sites (and rather aggressively) so some of his games do well, but even then, look at games like Geondun. 400-500 dls. Demon Tower has a decent but unexceptional 800 dls. We aren't exactly talking a metric ton here, man.
You are free to live in delusion F-G, but don't shit and piss on others and parade that you are automatically correct, especially when you aren't. =)
Those numbers just made me feel really, really bad about myself. 800 is decent but unexceptional? My hands down MOST POPULAR GAME has ALMOST that many downloads. : ( Most of my games are well, well below 300.
I can list off nearly dozen members who float around the community and consistently put out underwhelming projects. And, sure, nearly everyone would very likely know whom I was referring to.
I HOPE you're not referring to me. : (
1. People Talking About It - see it in threads, it's a Featured game, chatting about it in IRC, sudden good reviews, etc.
2. Visibility of Names - The Real Brickroad (who I know nothing about nor have I played any of his games) is spoken of so much for a legendary game that even I recognized his name and it makes you look at his reviews, projects, etc. With V&V I heard Craze and Karsuman and I knew both well from seeing them, talking to them, etc. This made it catch my eye much more than a game by "sephiroth003vx."
The pathetically meager download numbers for Everything Turns Gray, which was FEATURED ON RMN SNEWS , seem to speak against either of these being that decisive of a factor.
What? A topic about the state of the community not made by Feld?!
This. This so much. I was 1000% sure this was a Mog topic when I clicked in and I was fucking ASTONISHED when it turned out not to be.
If you want those massive download counts, you have to think of your game like a product. You have to sell your game. You sell your product through: brand name, advertising, and actually having a quality product.
Finally, I feel obligated to say...spoken like someone who has no idea how truly hard this can BACKFIRE.
Anyway this is an interesting topic and I hope it doesn't get locked! Maybe everybody can please remain civil, for once?
Oh, in response to the op? If I cared more about people playing my games, I'd probably advertise them on sites other than RMN. But I'm too lazy. : )
The Real Brickroad
2626
This is a sticky topic and one I have crossed paths with before. I don't have any solutions or advice except this: if you're going to devote a huge amount of time and energy to the creation of an RM game, you have to be prepared to stay motivated even if nobody ever, ever plays it. If you can't keep your fire lit in the face of apathy, you're in the wrong place.
Nightblade
2723
All I really have to say is that I hope this wasn't a particular reference. =[
No, I wasn't talking about you. The game I referred to had custom graphics. Stunning custom graphics. If anyone can remember the name, please let me know.
Darken
3952
I am trying to remember the game that had boring dungeons, terrible plot, shit graphics and squaresoft music. If anyone can remember the name, please let me know.
Nightblade
2723
post=87295
I am trying to remember the game that had boring dungeons, terrible plot, shit graphics and squaresoft music. If anyone can remember the name, please let me know.
Funny, really... Clever too.
If it helps at all, it was by a foreign maker who's english wasn't very good. 100% custom graphics. Some of the screenshots for the game included a giant desert town with two large sword wielding statues, a snowy landscape with some odd looking dragon shaped cave, and a colorful twilight forest. I'd go dig up the thread, but our archive doesn't go that far. I don't have access to the GW archives either so I cant grab that one.
It's not nearly as good looking in game.
A lot of those were mockup shots; rm2k3 can't provide that kind of graphical quality in game.
A lot of those were mockup shots; rm2k3 can't provide that kind of graphical quality in game.
Blitzen
3253
Listen up, lobsters...
I will play a game if it looks fun. For it to "look fun" it has to really grab my attention, show me something innovative, do something I haven't seen before that I am going to find hella-ass-novel. Presentation is everything. Is part of presentation having a good reputation? Yes. Is it necessary? No.
Its like trying out a new cereal. You want one that tases good. How do you know? You take a look at the wacky picture on the front of the box. If there is a cartoon walrus rocking out on an electric xylophone while slam dunking a machine gun, I say to myself "whoa this guy is extreme! this cereal must taste amazing!". some marketing genius knows that these two concepts have nothing to do with each other but knows I will make that connection.
Of course, for you to show off your best assets, you have to have good assetts to show off. You've got to have something to show off that's different from everyone else, and then you have to luck out that I am an individual that would find it compelling. Its not that difficult a concept to understand. Be progressive. Put in that extra work. CLEVER LUDOLOGIES ATTRACT PLAYERS.
I will play a game if it looks fun. For it to "look fun" it has to really grab my attention, show me something innovative, do something I haven't seen before that I am going to find hella-ass-novel. Presentation is everything. Is part of presentation having a good reputation? Yes. Is it necessary? No.
Its like trying out a new cereal. You want one that tases good. How do you know? You take a look at the wacky picture on the front of the box. If there is a cartoon walrus rocking out on an electric xylophone while slam dunking a machine gun, I say to myself "whoa this guy is extreme! this cereal must taste amazing!". some marketing genius knows that these two concepts have nothing to do with each other but knows I will make that connection.
Of course, for you to show off your best assets, you have to have good assetts to show off. You've got to have something to show off that's different from everyone else, and then you have to luck out that I am an individual that would find it compelling. Its not that difficult a concept to understand. Be progressive. Put in that extra work. CLEVER LUDOLOGIES ATTRACT PLAYERS.
S. F. LaValle
1069
Here's the way I see things.
There are not 2000 people that read the forums. There are not 800, or 400, or 200, and I'd say not even 100 people that (actively, anyway) read the forums. We here are all the same group of people. When one of us makes a game, the rest of us, for the most part, know about it. The games with tons of downloads get it from front page traffic, whether they were referred from advertising elsewhere or are featured on the front page or Games page.
Of course, prior to RMN3, the Games page was not an effective way to browse for games, so back in the days of RMN2, things were tough.
Yes. If you are popular, you will get more downloads, by default. The tricky part is where the popularity stems from. Kentona, Karsuman, Craze, Fallen-Griever, Max McGee, BlindMind. These are just names that I got from scrolling up. All of you have more downloads on your games because of your forum presence here. Popularity due to forum presence can only net you extra downloads from members of the forum community, which is not many.
The real popularity comes from word-of-mouth. Not to make this more serious than it should be, but every marketing exec in the world knows that word-of-mouth is the most influential advertising practice that has ever existed. Some initial downloads roll in, people like the game and spread it around themselves, maybe the game gets featured on a site or two and the ball starts to get rolling. Popularity surrounds your game, and in turn, you. Then, when you create something else, anticipation is high, along with expectations. However, established popularity in this manner will grant you a strong number of initial downloads.
I know I'm generalizing here, but look past that if you could, please =)
This has been said a billion times and counting, and argued half as much, but I can't be convinced otherwise. The game must be GOOD. Not just good as in, good for an RPG Maker game, or good compared to what else has come out lately (although these things contribute). Good enough to make some people say, "I bet my friend XxInfiniteSephirothoftheBeyondness6xX would like this game." In the end, that's where the downloads will soar.
There are not 2000 people that read the forums. There are not 800, or 400, or 200, and I'd say not even 100 people that (actively, anyway) read the forums. We here are all the same group of people. When one of us makes a game, the rest of us, for the most part, know about it. The games with tons of downloads get it from front page traffic, whether they were referred from advertising elsewhere or are featured on the front page or Games page.
Of course, prior to RMN3, the Games page was not an effective way to browse for games, so back in the days of RMN2, things were tough.
Yes. If you are popular, you will get more downloads, by default. The tricky part is where the popularity stems from. Kentona, Karsuman, Craze, Fallen-Griever, Max McGee, BlindMind. These are just names that I got from scrolling up. All of you have more downloads on your games because of your forum presence here. Popularity due to forum presence can only net you extra downloads from members of the forum community, which is not many.
The real popularity comes from word-of-mouth. Not to make this more serious than it should be, but every marketing exec in the world knows that word-of-mouth is the most influential advertising practice that has ever existed. Some initial downloads roll in, people like the game and spread it around themselves, maybe the game gets featured on a site or two and the ball starts to get rolling. Popularity surrounds your game, and in turn, you. Then, when you create something else, anticipation is high, along with expectations. However, established popularity in this manner will grant you a strong number of initial downloads.
I know I'm generalizing here, but look past that if you could, please =)
This has been said a billion times and counting, and argued half as much, but I can't be convinced otherwise. The game must be GOOD. Not just good as in, good for an RPG Maker game, or good compared to what else has come out lately (although these things contribute). Good enough to make some people say, "I bet my friend XxInfiniteSephirothoftheBeyondness6xX would like this game." In the end, that's where the downloads will soar.
F-G, I refuse to play Sore Losers simply because of all of your whining and your brash attitude here on the forums probably doesn't help either. However, if you send me $50 via PayPal I will be willing to overlook your many flaws and I will take care of your marketing and PR for you since apparently you haven't figured things out yet.
Honestly, I really don't feel like anyone who is using pirated, decade old software can complain too much when nobody is paying attention. Also, most of Craze's games have been ignored and it's been a pretty recent phenomenon for any of his games getting any attention. Maybe you missed him also crying about how nobody plays his games in like 10 other threads. Brickroad is referred to in this thread as legendary, yet he also quit making KC(A) because he felt underappreciated. This is a community of developers and ultimately everyone here is because they are working on a project and not necessarily because they have any interest in anyone else's projects. We've been working on some ways to change that. However, I strongly suggest you make sure your game is out EVERYWHERE to gain maximum exposure, even strange places like Something Awful. I know iishenron/FD really felt like Three the Hard Way wasn't a big hit with the RPG Maker community but he's gotten a megaton of exposure from places like HOTU.
If the only place you are pushing for your game at is here and a couple of other RPG Maker websites, you are doing things wrong. Why box yourself in to such a relatively small, niche community?
P.S. Please don't really send me the $50.
Honestly, I really don't feel like anyone who is using pirated, decade old software can complain too much when nobody is paying attention. Also, most of Craze's games have been ignored and it's been a pretty recent phenomenon for any of his games getting any attention. Maybe you missed him also crying about how nobody plays his games in like 10 other threads. Brickroad is referred to in this thread as legendary, yet he also quit making KC(A) because he felt underappreciated. This is a community of developers and ultimately everyone here is because they are working on a project and not necessarily because they have any interest in anyone else's projects. We've been working on some ways to change that. However, I strongly suggest you make sure your game is out EVERYWHERE to gain maximum exposure, even strange places like Something Awful. I know iishenron/FD really felt like Three the Hard Way wasn't a big hit with the RPG Maker community but he's gotten a megaton of exposure from places like HOTU.
If the only place you are pushing for your game at is here and a couple of other RPG Maker websites, you are doing things wrong. Why box yourself in to such a relatively small, niche community?
P.S. Please don't really send me the $50.
You know F-G, one reason that affects a person's opinion to play a game is THE TITLE as well.
When I first saw Sore Losers as a title, I placed it on my blacklist until further review. Then your constant whining and attitude after tend to hit some nerves which makes the person NOT want to play it more and more.
Also man, I remember Craze at GW complaining about his ff game, I downloaded it but I never played it, odd...
When I first saw Sore Losers as a title, I placed it on my blacklist until further review. Then your constant whining and attitude after tend to hit some nerves which makes the person NOT want to play it more and more.
Also man, I remember Craze at GW complaining about his ff game, I downloaded it but I never played it, odd...
For me the biggest turnoff was the title.
Sore Losers is an awful title, and doesn't even tell anything about the genre or the style of the game. Hell, it's not interesting in the slightest! It doesn't make me want to click it and see the screenshots, not to mention download it.
SL is a mix between post-apocalypse and cyberpunk IIRC; come up with a title that somehow reflects that. A catchy title is essential, and it's even better if it's somehow connected with the story.
Sore Losers is an awful title, and doesn't even tell anything about the genre or the style of the game. Hell, it's not interesting in the slightest! It doesn't make me want to click it and see the screenshots, not to mention download it.
SL is a mix between post-apocalypse and cyberpunk IIRC; come up with a title that somehow reflects that. A catchy title is essential, and it's even better if it's somehow connected with the story.
I?...agree?...with?...geodude?
/me questions the life choices that have lead him to this perilous crossroads.
YOU HAVE 13 HOURS IN WHICH TO SOLVE THIS LABYRINTH
Your reasons for "reposting" here were completely obvious, regardless of your stated motives. I did, however, respond to your actual concern: no matter how hard we try right now, the userbase rpgmaker.net (and by nature most other gamedev websites) is geared towards the developer and not towards gamers. Other devs may have no interest in playing other people's games at all. kentona is a good example of this. We're trying to change that culture, but the current reality is you're hawking your wares to the wrong crowd. Try out some of the non-development gaming sites where the userbase downloads and plays a lot of games by nature until then. It requires a lot more effort on your part, but you can always keep your rpgmaker.net game page updated and provide links back to that.
Also I agree with everyone who mentioned the title. That was probably my first actual reaction.
Also I agree with everyone who mentioned the title. That was probably my first actual reaction.
