Full Games List
Featured Games
New Games
Reviews
Media
Images
Blogs
Game Updates
Images Feedback Summary
Game Design Highlights
Tutorials
Articles
Scripts
Utilities / Plugins
Resources
Engines
Engine Bulletins
What is Makerscore?
Past Events
Achievements
Misaos
Forums
Post History
Chat
New to RMN?
Full Store List
RMN Music Pack (free)
MAKING FOURTEEN UNIQUE CHARACTERS
Posts
Craze
View playlists
CloseHow Craze Uniques Fourteen Characters in an RPG
This articlette is a small peek at my mind and how it works to create fun skillsets. Also included are some general tips and ideas scattered throughout. Please note that this does not take into account how the skills work out in the original Demon Tower - I know that Fighters were underpowered, but that is a problem with implementation and not the ideas behind it.
1) Work out possible effects as well as dream ideas. Whenever I create a skillset, I list out the options available to me by the VX database, downloaded scripts and my own straight-up coding abilities. This includes the game's elements, creature categories, stats, status conditions, and all that. Then, I make a separate list of dream ideas. These either require common events for me to manage, or are just so ridiculous that I know I'll never justify the work. Examples below.
Possible Effects: Attack+ status, Anti-Avian damage, Blunt weapon skills, Fire damage, damage that increases with lower HP, absorption, MP Regen, healing, Ice shield, random target skills that increase damage done based on the number of enemies...
Dream Ideas: D&D 4e-style hit-then-heal-an-ally skills, replacement summoning, equipment switching, item generation, reaction abilities...
2) Define character roles/categories. It is hella important to decide what a character's purpose in battle is. A broad skillset can work (see: DQ Hero class), but even in the DQ example the Hero class is aligned towards melee damage and tanking instead of just HIGH STATS/ALL SKILLS. Having everything available to you makes a character confusing to use and generally makes specific abilities shine less - and the character's role is messed up, anyway. I suggest sorting characters into the following categories; characters can fill more than one role, but any more than two makes for the mess detailed above.
Roles: Tank (Takes hits and keeps the party alive), Healer (Recovers HP and status effects), Fighter (Deals damage with ease, but is more frail than the Tank), Mage/Nuker (Uses renewable resources to generate large amounts of damage), Buffer (Raises party stats), Debuffer (Lowers enemy stats), Expert (Helps the party out of battle, or with odd numbers like gold drop increases)
Resulting Character Examples: Paladin (Tank w/ Healer aspects), Bard (Buffer/Healer), Monk (Fighter), Gladiator (Fighter/Tank), Warlord (Tank/Buffer), Wizard (Nuker), Warlock (Debuffer/Fighter; note that 'damage with ease' includes cheap magic skills, too)...
3) Apply skills to characters based on roles. This may seem to be the simplest part, but at the same time needs a bit of finesse to work. One important thing to consider here is the cost of the skill - life, SP/TP/MP/etc., turns, a debuff... Here are example skills for each role above, as well as suggested costs.
Skill/Role Fusions:
Tank - Draw attacks (passive or active taunt; no cost except the active version's turn); Revive (either with HP or SP; depends on the game's definition of your secondary renewable resource); self-heal/buff (should cost naught but a turn; maybe healing can cost some SP, but the loss of damage for a turn is still a cost)
Healer - Healing (either with regens or normal healing; costs SP); Small HP heal (costs a turn and doesn't function outside of battle); Removal of negative conditions (costs SP); blood transfusions (HP cost; heal/remove status effect from an ally - useful for Healer hybrids); self-healing/DEF buff/EVA buff (no cost; the healer needs to stay alive, too!)
Fighter - Normal attacks w/ elements (no cost or a very low HP/SP cost; fighters should be able to deal damage easily and consistently); Normal attacks w/ extra damage to certain enemy types (ditto); Rages (Berserk w/ benefits; can be free for a basic rage and cost SP for better ones); HP-based attacks (Fighters are going to lose HP since they don't have a Tank's HP; let them add damage when injured); weapon/element proficiency (passive boosts to damage with certain elements is nice, or maybe an evasion boost when daggers are equipped)
Nuker - Major elemental/anti-creature type attacks (high SP cost; nukers can't consistently pump out damage but should be murderers); situational attacks (average SP cost; this includes stuff like sneak attacking while cloaked or a super-attack when poisoned); SP recovery (free with a chance of failure or an added status effect; let nukers nuke more then they are meant to, but at a cost!)
Buffer - Raise stats (either an SP cost or a self-debuff cost); shield damage (ditto; lower elemental damage taken); status curing (ditto; a healer overlap, but a good way to encourage the use of pure Buffer characters); SP recovery (SP cost; transfer SP to an ally)
Debuffer - Damage enemy stats (SP/HP cost); attack 'n debuff (SP/HP cost; make debuffers more desireable by either passively or actively adding effects to their attacks); Buff removal (SP/HP cost; remove buffs from enemies); Absorption (SP/HP cost; keeps the Debuffer alive and able to continue cursing enemies); simple Debuff (no cost; try giving a debuffer a free and short-lasting/just plain small DEF-down effect so that they can always debuff effectively, and give the party a constant edge)
Expert - This really depends on the game. This is odd, hard-to-describe stuff like creating light, dodging traps, unlocking doors, picking herbs... useful, but not really the point of this post
4) Uniqueify the characters. This occurs when you have assigned roles and is only necessary when you have several cases of role overlap - like when you have four Fighters. A lot of this is based on your limitations, but here are some suggestions to diversify characters. You'll notice that most of these are applied to nukers and fighters. Tanks, Healers, and De/Buffers have fairly concrete ideas behind their skillsets - and they also need to work consistently.
Suggestions: Focus on a specific stat (like a character that uses DEF or AGI for damage), work with critical hit boosting, use random targets, make all skills rages (or at least rage-like), make a nuker that is completely situational (like when afflicted with certain status effects, they can use X, Y and Z but are otherwise a Fighter), make a character a hunter of a specific enemy type (see: FFX), make skills generate items/potions/scrolls/etc. that then unleash nuker effects...
Summary: Figure out your limitations, assign archetypes, then add a twist to that archetype if the twist is within your means.
This articlette is a small peek at my mind and how it works to create fun skillsets. Also included are some general tips and ideas scattered throughout. Please note that this does not take into account how the skills work out in the original Demon Tower - I know that Fighters were underpowered, but that is a problem with implementation and not the ideas behind it.
1) Work out possible effects as well as dream ideas. Whenever I create a skillset, I list out the options available to me by the VX database, downloaded scripts and my own straight-up coding abilities. This includes the game's elements, creature categories, stats, status conditions, and all that. Then, I make a separate list of dream ideas. These either require common events for me to manage, or are just so ridiculous that I know I'll never justify the work. Examples below.
Possible Effects: Attack+ status, Anti-Avian damage, Blunt weapon skills, Fire damage, damage that increases with lower HP, absorption, MP Regen, healing, Ice shield, random target skills that increase damage done based on the number of enemies...
Dream Ideas: D&D 4e-style hit-then-heal-an-ally skills, replacement summoning, equipment switching, item generation, reaction abilities...
2) Define character roles/categories. It is hella important to decide what a character's purpose in battle is. A broad skillset can work (see: DQ Hero class), but even in the DQ example the Hero class is aligned towards melee damage and tanking instead of just HIGH STATS/ALL SKILLS. Having everything available to you makes a character confusing to use and generally makes specific abilities shine less - and the character's role is messed up, anyway. I suggest sorting characters into the following categories; characters can fill more than one role, but any more than two makes for the mess detailed above.
Roles: Tank (Takes hits and keeps the party alive), Healer (Recovers HP and status effects), Fighter (Deals damage with ease, but is more frail than the Tank), Mage/Nuker (Uses renewable resources to generate large amounts of damage), Buffer (Raises party stats), Debuffer (Lowers enemy stats), Expert (Helps the party out of battle, or with odd numbers like gold drop increases)
Resulting Character Examples: Paladin (Tank w/ Healer aspects), Bard (Buffer/Healer), Monk (Fighter), Gladiator (Fighter/Tank), Warlord (Tank/Buffer), Wizard (Nuker), Warlock (Debuffer/Fighter; note that 'damage with ease' includes cheap magic skills, too)...
3) Apply skills to characters based on roles. This may seem to be the simplest part, but at the same time needs a bit of finesse to work. One important thing to consider here is the cost of the skill - life, SP/TP/MP/etc., turns, a debuff... Here are example skills for each role above, as well as suggested costs.
Skill/Role Fusions:
Tank - Draw attacks (passive or active taunt; no cost except the active version's turn); Revive (either with HP or SP; depends on the game's definition of your secondary renewable resource); self-heal/buff (should cost naught but a turn; maybe healing can cost some SP, but the loss of damage for a turn is still a cost)
Healer - Healing (either with regens or normal healing; costs SP); Small HP heal (costs a turn and doesn't function outside of battle); Removal of negative conditions (costs SP); blood transfusions (HP cost; heal/remove status effect from an ally - useful for Healer hybrids); self-healing/DEF buff/EVA buff (no cost; the healer needs to stay alive, too!)
Fighter - Normal attacks w/ elements (no cost or a very low HP/SP cost; fighters should be able to deal damage easily and consistently); Normal attacks w/ extra damage to certain enemy types (ditto); Rages (Berserk w/ benefits; can be free for a basic rage and cost SP for better ones); HP-based attacks (Fighters are going to lose HP since they don't have a Tank's HP; let them add damage when injured); weapon/element proficiency (passive boosts to damage with certain elements is nice, or maybe an evasion boost when daggers are equipped)
Nuker - Major elemental/anti-creature type attacks (high SP cost; nukers can't consistently pump out damage but should be murderers); situational attacks (average SP cost; this includes stuff like sneak attacking while cloaked or a super-attack when poisoned); SP recovery (free with a chance of failure or an added status effect; let nukers nuke more then they are meant to, but at a cost!)
Buffer - Raise stats (either an SP cost or a self-debuff cost); shield damage (ditto; lower elemental damage taken); status curing (ditto; a healer overlap, but a good way to encourage the use of pure Buffer characters); SP recovery (SP cost; transfer SP to an ally)
Debuffer - Damage enemy stats (SP/HP cost); attack 'n debuff (SP/HP cost; make debuffers more desireable by either passively or actively adding effects to their attacks); Buff removal (SP/HP cost; remove buffs from enemies); Absorption (SP/HP cost; keeps the Debuffer alive and able to continue cursing enemies); simple Debuff (no cost; try giving a debuffer a free and short-lasting/just plain small DEF-down effect so that they can always debuff effectively, and give the party a constant edge)
Expert - This really depends on the game. This is odd, hard-to-describe stuff like creating light, dodging traps, unlocking doors, picking herbs... useful, but not really the point of this post
4) Uniqueify the characters. This occurs when you have assigned roles and is only necessary when you have several cases of role overlap - like when you have four Fighters. A lot of this is based on your limitations, but here are some suggestions to diversify characters. You'll notice that most of these are applied to nukers and fighters. Tanks, Healers, and De/Buffers have fairly concrete ideas behind their skillsets - and they also need to work consistently.
Suggestions: Focus on a specific stat (like a character that uses DEF or AGI for damage), work with critical hit boosting, use random targets, make all skills rages (or at least rage-like), make a nuker that is completely situational (like when afflicted with certain status effects, they can use X, Y and Z but are otherwise a Fighter), make a character a hunter of a specific enemy type (see: FFX), make skills generate items/potions/scrolls/etc. that then unleash nuker effects...
Summary: Figure out your limitations, assign archetypes, then add a twist to that archetype if the twist is within your means.
Why has no one commented on this yet? it is a brilliant article. I do much the same as Craze, but also take into account equipment and equipment types as well as the general skills and spells and abilities Craze mentions.
GDKT
30
I thought it was a good article. I just began production of my RPG about a week ago, and it is actually inspired by FF6 in the sense that I am editing the RTP to be sort of a shadow of the FF6 chipsets, and that I want the game to feature a very large cast of 10-14 PC's that all unite against one common enemy.
It's definitely a challenge, balancing that many characters...
It's definitely a challenge, balancing that many characters...
post=90889
Why has no one commented on this yet? it is a brilliant article. I do much the same as Craze, but also take into account equipment and equipment types as well as the general skills and spells and abilities Craze mentions.
Er, let's go with because it's not on the site.
I use my D&D 3.5e experience and boards to get ideas. Combining the thoughts of thousands of roll/role players and splatbooks gives some interesting perspectives on how to build characters ranging from gimmick builds to serious mother fuckers.
My favorite gimmick character was a Fighter that abused attacks of opportunity with a weapon that could threaten adjacant and adjacant+1 squares (spiked chain iirc). He'd run into a mob of enemies and just sit there. He wasn't great at damage, most of his survivability came from a 20%/50% chance to miss cloak and the Fighter's d10 hit die, but he had an amazing trick: He could whip out attacks of opportunities like nobody's business.
D&D 3.5e Spurg: Attack of opportunities (AoO) occur when certain conditions are met and the target's square is threatened by the attacker's (who is doing the AoO) square. One condition is if the target leaves a square threatened by another. Now the target can do a five foot step which prevents them from moving again on their turn but it lets them move off of a threatened square without drawing an AoO. Or they can withdraw which lets them move twice their base move speed and makes their started location unthreatened but it consumes their entire turn.
Now my guy would just chillax surrounded by enemies who he threatens and if any of them tried to move they'd have to withdraw or five foot step. However since my guy could threaten more square than the average bear a withdrawing character would draw an AoO when they moved off their second square unless they were on the edge of what I threatened (which I try to avoid). Now whenever they drew an AoO, instead of attacking I'd make a trip attempt which meant I had to land a hit (usually not a big issue) and make an opposed strength check (again not that big, my strength was decent, I had various bonus to trip (+7?), and if needed the local wizard would enlarge me to increase my tripping power). Once tripped an enemy loses their action and they have to get back up, sometimes on the next turn or roll away. Getting up draws an AoO. Rolling away draws an AoO. Unfortunately I can't trip an enemy already prone (AoO occurs before getting up occurs). Free damage and the enemy still loses actions to falling on a AoO and then having to get up!
The party was decently built to abuse synergy from this. There was a wizard, a ranged rogue, ranged ranger, and a Paladin. Any melee enemies couldn't reach the wizard or ranged attackers because if they tried I'd usually trip them! Of course once the enemies started catching on they'd usually try to kill me instead and he was killed a few times from getting ganked. Also there's always enemies that can trip me better than I can trip them (think huge quadpedal giants or two of the described adjectives) so it wasn't as good as some Vow of Poverty monk tank but he still did a good job of battlefield control. Plus on his turn he could just make a regular trip attempt just for an extra 'fuck you' to enemies.
Bonus: Some feat in a splatbook prevents magic users from casting defensively (prevents AoO on them when casting spells after making a Concentrate check). This means any spell caster adjacant to me (abuse Dimension Door shoes or so to actually get close to them) will draw an AoO if they try to use any spells. Trip them (wizards suck at resisting trips) to put a stop to their dangerous spell casting shenanigans and make sure they can't escape. Doesn't work with multiple spell casters :(
Died to a Will based SoD from the final enemy of that campaign. Freaking Liches!
Alternative Fighter/Debuffer: Sunder abuser. Sunder is an attack on an enemy's equipment. Roll attack, beat enemy's rolled attack, and then you could do damage to any non-body armor gear. Now equipment has HP like everything else and toughness aka damage reduction so breaking it can be a bit tricky. Had a weapon that could penetrate most weapon's hardness, stupid amounts of strength for improved attack/damage rolls, and he'd walk up to anybody weilding a weapon and cut it in half. It does a good job of putting weapon weilders in the 'hahahaha' danger category since if they run out of weapons they'r stuck with their fists and untrained fist fighting draws AoO's and it does shit for damage. It does hurt the loot since a broken weapon isn't worth much but it was great in the campaign he was in which had a lot of humanoid enemies weilding various weapons.
Bonus: If sunder successfuly broke the enemy's gear, he'd get a free attack (w/ attack roll :( ) on the enemy!
My favorite gimmick character was a Fighter that abused attacks of opportunity with a weapon that could threaten adjacant and adjacant+1 squares (spiked chain iirc). He'd run into a mob of enemies and just sit there. He wasn't great at damage, most of his survivability came from a 20%/50% chance to miss cloak and the Fighter's d10 hit die, but he had an amazing trick: He could whip out attacks of opportunities like nobody's business.
D&D 3.5e Spurg: Attack of opportunities (AoO) occur when certain conditions are met and the target's square is threatened by the attacker's (who is doing the AoO) square. One condition is if the target leaves a square threatened by another. Now the target can do a five foot step which prevents them from moving again on their turn but it lets them move off of a threatened square without drawing an AoO. Or they can withdraw which lets them move twice their base move speed and makes their started location unthreatened but it consumes their entire turn.
Now my guy would just chillax surrounded by enemies who he threatens and if any of them tried to move they'd have to withdraw or five foot step. However since my guy could threaten more square than the average bear a withdrawing character would draw an AoO when they moved off their second square unless they were on the edge of what I threatened (which I try to avoid). Now whenever they drew an AoO, instead of attacking I'd make a trip attempt which meant I had to land a hit (usually not a big issue) and make an opposed strength check (again not that big, my strength was decent, I had various bonus to trip (+7?), and if needed the local wizard would enlarge me to increase my tripping power). Once tripped an enemy loses their action and they have to get back up, sometimes on the next turn or roll away. Getting up draws an AoO. Rolling away draws an AoO. Unfortunately I can't trip an enemy already prone (AoO occurs before getting up occurs). Free damage and the enemy still loses actions to falling on a AoO and then having to get up!
The party was decently built to abuse synergy from this. There was a wizard, a ranged rogue, ranged ranger, and a Paladin. Any melee enemies couldn't reach the wizard or ranged attackers because if they tried I'd usually trip them! Of course once the enemies started catching on they'd usually try to kill me instead and he was killed a few times from getting ganked. Also there's always enemies that can trip me better than I can trip them (think huge quadpedal giants or two of the described adjectives) so it wasn't as good as some Vow of Poverty monk tank but he still did a good job of battlefield control. Plus on his turn he could just make a regular trip attempt just for an extra 'fuck you' to enemies.
Bonus: Some feat in a splatbook prevents magic users from casting defensively (prevents AoO on them when casting spells after making a Concentrate check). This means any spell caster adjacant to me (abuse Dimension Door shoes or so to actually get close to them) will draw an AoO if they try to use any spells. Trip them (wizards suck at resisting trips) to put a stop to their dangerous spell casting shenanigans and make sure they can't escape. Doesn't work with multiple spell casters :(
Died to a Will based SoD from the final enemy of that campaign. Freaking Liches!
Alternative Fighter/Debuffer: Sunder abuser. Sunder is an attack on an enemy's equipment. Roll attack, beat enemy's rolled attack, and then you could do damage to any non-body armor gear. Now equipment has HP like everything else and toughness aka damage reduction so breaking it can be a bit tricky. Had a weapon that could penetrate most weapon's hardness, stupid amounts of strength for improved attack/damage rolls, and he'd walk up to anybody weilding a weapon and cut it in half. It does a good job of putting weapon weilders in the 'hahahaha' danger category since if they run out of weapons they'r stuck with their fists and untrained fist fighting draws AoO's and it does shit for damage. It does hurt the loot since a broken weapon isn't worth much but it was great in the campaign he was in which had a lot of humanoid enemies weilding various weapons.
Bonus: If sunder successfuly broke the enemy's gear, he'd get a free attack (w/ attack roll :( ) on the enemy!
Shinan
4314
I just tend to steal my classes from tabletop RPGs. Of course in the end I don't even consider what they're good for from a gameplay aspect. Making fourteen differing combat characters is a pretty good feat. It's a lot easier to come up with a lot of different "civilian" unique occupations.
One thing I think you're missing in your example though is the ranged fighter. I guess the mage is essentially a ranged fighter. I guess it also doesn't always apply since oftentimes the battle systems just don't take range into account at all. (With me having been playing Empire Total War lately my artillery took out a whole enemy army so ranged combat is my friend this week.)
Another point that might be good to bring up is how the complexity of a battle system adds to the variety of combatants. Rock-paper-scissors doesn't have more than three character types and frankly doesn't need more than that. But when you add layers on the system itself the opportunities open up. (Though I think a lot of games use the rock-paper-scissors as a basis. "character x beats y who beats z who beats x")
So one way of thinking while considering the unique characters could also be "what character beats this one?" Weaknesses are just as important as strengths :)
I don't really know anything about balancing though.
One thing I think you're missing in your example though is the ranged fighter. I guess the mage is essentially a ranged fighter. I guess it also doesn't always apply since oftentimes the battle systems just don't take range into account at all. (With me having been playing Empire Total War lately my artillery took out a whole enemy army so ranged combat is my friend this week.)
Another point that might be good to bring up is how the complexity of a battle system adds to the variety of combatants. Rock-paper-scissors doesn't have more than three character types and frankly doesn't need more than that. But when you add layers on the system itself the opportunities open up. (Though I think a lot of games use the rock-paper-scissors as a basis. "character x beats y who beats z who beats x")
So one way of thinking while considering the unique characters could also be "what character beats this one?" Weaknesses are just as important as strengths :)
I don't really know anything about balancing though.
This is a bit of an aside, but I hate that RM2k3 doesn't have a built-in way to indicate that a weapon is "ranged" (that is, same damage from back row). Nor does it have a way to detect when the user uses the (unremovable) Row command in battle, so you can't hack it in yourself. GAH! I loved that game mechanic.
post=91075Actually, Cherry made a patch that removes the Row command.
Nor does it have a way to detect when the user uses the (unremovable) Row command in battle, so you can't hack it in yourself.
post=89982Good Lord, I feel horrible for asking, but can someone PLEEEEASE explaine to me what a Mage/Nuker is??? I don't get it...
Mage/Nuker (Uses renewable resources to generate large amounts of damage)
Silviera
2891
Pretty much just any class that is designed to dish out a tremendous amount of damage in a short amount of time. The most general case being a Mage who has very low attack power, but has spells that far outdamage anyone else in the party. The tradeoff is unlike Fighters who have a constant source of damage with their weapon, Mages are all but useless as soon as they run out of mp.
I see... So someone that can dish out their power real fast, but doesn't deal a lot of damage due to this factor, but also in the end can end up without out MP and therefore labeling them as useless in a sense until they gain it back. Thus the "Uses renewable resources" -- MP potions or something -- am I correct?
Silviera
2891
MP potions or resting at an inn, pretty much. Some games make mp potions rare, or not exist at all, which makes you think carefully about when you want to fire off that big spell.
post=91123
I couldn't read german :(
Es ist nicht allzu schwer zu verstehen, es in Englisch für mich.
Read it aloud in a heavy accent. ;)
post=91259post=91123Es ist nicht allzu schwer zu verstehen, es in Englisch für mich.
I couldn't read german :(
Translation:
It is not too difficult to understand it in English for me.
I love you Google. :)
I am able to visit an un-holy amount of other web pages thanks to that part of Google... :)
