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HAS ANYONE HEARD OF THE SHOOTING AT THE PITTSBURGH LA FITNESS?
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Closepost=91444He was going to find a way to kill people whether or not he had access to a gun.Nope. Shooting someone is many times easier than killing them via other means. Also, doing it via other means is far less hasty; walking into a room and tagging a bunch of people with a gun only takes a couple of seconds, but doing so with a knife takes much more time and will result in a physical altercation with each victim. This man may not have killed anyone if he didn't have access to such a cowardly way of killing someone.
Either way, it isn't about gun control - many countries have freely available guns (like the US) and yet manage to have a far lower number of shootings.Haven't you all seen Bowling For Columbine?
It's funny how your response to my statement was simply "nope." As if what I said was wrong. As if nobody ever killed anyone before guns were invented. So you're saying that this guy would have decided NOT to kill anyone if he couldn't find a gun. Oooookay....
What I said was not wrong. People kill others without guns all the time. Guns are pretty effective at killing, but he could've also just wrapped himself in dynamite and blew himself up along with the rest of the place. In fact, that'd probably be even easier than with guns, because guns can miss.
Feld: you are correct.
post=91444
Nope. Shooting someone is many times easier than killing them via other means-
Either way, it isn't about gun control - many countries have freely available guns (like the US) and yet manage to have a far lower number of shootings
wait what
Why did you just contradict yourself?
post=91124and the homicide rate? (i.e. the one relevant to this incident)post=91059Apparently you missed the part where the UK has one of the worst crime rates in western civilization, surpassing the U.S. and even South Africa.
Why do Americans feel the need to shoot stuff whenever they have a problem with something..?
oops looks like the UK is outsripped by such countries as switzerland and sweden whereas the US outstrips IRAN and PALESTINE
post=91490post=91124and the homicide rate? (i.e. the one relevant to this incident)post=91059Apparently you missed the part where the UK has one of the worst crime rates in western civilization, surpassing the U.S. and even South Africa.
Why do Americans feel the need to shoot stuff whenever they have a problem with something..?
oops looks like the UK is outsripped by such countries as switzerland and sweden whereas the US outstrips IRAN and PALESTINE
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melting_pot
I bet the families of the murdered women are debating this exact same thing and arguing about with country sucks worse, america or the UK
post=91550
I didn't. Not everyone will find a means to kill someone if they don't have a gun because some people are far too scared to kill someone if they don't have a gun (ergo, saying that someone will find a way to kill someone if they want to is bullshit). This, however, may not be true for everyone (but I am certain it is true in this case).
I can't believe you actually believe this. Did you personally know this guy? No. I find it hilarious that you're speculating as to the inner workings of his mind. Even you acknowledge that the bigger issue is the fact that America sucks and we're all murderers, so there's no reason to make this silly argument. If what you say is true, then this inner monologue takes place:
Murderer: "I'm gonna kill some ladies at a gym."
Murderer's brain: "But guns are illegal."
Murderer: "Oh, really? Well, dang... I guess I'll change my tune. From now on, I'll never have murderous thoughts. Thanks, brain!"
Murderer's brain: "Knowing is half the battle."
Yeah ok.
I am going to be the devil's advocate and agree with F-G. These particular murders probably would have been stopped if he had no access to guns. The guy in question actually "chickened out" on several occassions wasn't really killing to get some sort of emotional high or anything. If he would have had to walk in there with a pocketknife I don't think he would have done it.
Of course then there are the pesky explosives mentioned earlier...
99.9% of American citizens who own guns legally are law abiding citizens. There is really no way to further gun control (except many fixing the gun show loophole) without having a knee-jerk reaction such as an entire country banning guns. They already do FBI screenings and such when you purchase a firearm, but there really is no way to prevent someone without a criminal record or known mental health issues. I guess we could have people sweeping the internet for blogs and take pre-emptive action, but that seems even scarier.
Of course then there are the pesky explosives mentioned earlier...
99.9% of American citizens who own guns legally are law abiding citizens. There is really no way to further gun control (except many fixing the gun show loophole) without having a knee-jerk reaction such as an entire country banning guns. They already do FBI screenings and such when you purchase a firearm, but there really is no way to prevent someone without a criminal record or known mental health issues. I guess we could have people sweeping the internet for blogs and take pre-emptive action, but that seems even scarier.
post=91599
Drugs are illegal and people still manage to get them.
You know, in places like Japan where guns and drugs are HIGHLY restricted, they are EXTREMELY difficult to obtain. Emphasis on extremely. You could go your whole life without seeing either. It works for them; not too many shootouts on Japan.
post=91616post=91599You know, in places like Japan where guns and drugs are HIGHLY restricted, they are EXTREMELY difficult to obtain. Emphasis on extremely. You could go your whole life without seeing either. It works for them; not too many shootouts on Japan.
Drugs are illegal and people still manage to get them.
They don't need guns they got those crazy ass swords.
post=91616post=91599You know, in places like Japan where guns and drugs are HIGHLY restricted, they are EXTREMELY difficult to obtain. Emphasis on extremely. You could go your whole life without seeing either. It works for them; not too many shootouts on Japan.
Drugs are illegal and people still manage to get them.
While guns not being available may be one of many factors that contribute to Japan's relatively low crime rate, gun availability is not inherently linked to a country's violent crime.
Switzerland is a great example. Roughly 1/3rd of the population owns a firearm, but the violent crime rate is extremely low.
Now why is that? Consider this: It is a very rich country with little outside interference or contact. It is small. It has very few or none of the social problems the USA or any other country that suffers from high amounts of violent crime has to deal with (see my earlier melting pot link for one thing that could contribute to a country's violent crime). Military-grade arms are sold to the public in the name of national defense. Guns are treated as near sacred things, not war toys.
So yeah, while 'banning guns' might reduce certain incidents of gun violence, more often then not I'd say crime would happen anyway due to the USA's very unique social climate.
(FTR, I do not own and probably never will own a gun)
post=91616post=91599You know, in places like Japan where guns and drugs are HIGHLY restricted, they are EXTREMELY difficult to obtain. Emphasis on extremely. You could go your whole life without seeing either. It works for them; not too many shootouts on Japan.
Drugs are illegal and people still manage to get them.
Who cares. Different culture. Racially homogeneous culture. Geographically small country, Isolated by water, so it's much easier to control and restrict the flow of goods. You're comparing apples to oranges. It also does nothing to counter my point that people would still get guns if they really, really wanted one.
It's ridiculous to blame guns for murder. Stop giving a pass to murderers themselves. They choose to kill.
post=91616
You know, in places like Japan where guns and drugs are HIGHLY restricted, they are EXTREMELY difficult to obtain. Emphasis on extremely. You could go your whole life without seeing either. It works for them; not too many shootouts on Japan.
Japan is also essentially a police state. They gave up a lot of rights to obtain this that Americans will never do.
I find it hilarious that you're speculating as to the inner workings of his mind.
That's part of the solution. If we can figure out why people do these things, and what drives them, we can nip it in the bud before it happens. Our degree of psychological care sucks compared to our other medical advances. Hell, just look at the military.
