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PARTY RELATIVE MONSTER STATS
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Relyt
1242
Relyt
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CloseI had an idea the other day that would prevent the need for grinding in RPGs.
What if every monster didn't have set stats, but stats that were relative to the player's?
For instance, a troll wouldn't have 211 HP, it'd have 20% less than the player's HP. Catch my drift? As for party stats, the engine could average the party stats into one set that the monsters would go off of.
I'm wondering if this has been done before, and if not, what do you guys think of the idea?
What if every monster didn't have set stats, but stats that were relative to the player's?
For instance, a troll wouldn't have 211 HP, it'd have 20% less than the player's HP. Catch my drift? As for party stats, the engine could average the party stats into one set that the monsters would go off of.
I'm wondering if this has been done before, and if not, what do you guys think of the idea?
FF8, among others, has done this before. Making monsters stronger for grinding is a punishment, not a reward.
A better idea would be to simply give monsters a level, and scale their stats between two endpoints, much like PC stats. Ergo, this torll is level 36 - easy prey. Oh shit a level 56 troll!
A better idea would be to simply give monsters a level, and scale their stats between two endpoints, much like PC stats. Ergo, this torll is level 36 - easy prey. Oh shit a level 56 troll!
B-but then enemies never get crushable, yet are never a true challenge.
This is why people use mods for Oblivion that set static stats/levels for enemies.
This is why people use mods for Oblivion that set static stats/levels for enemies.
Relyt
1242
post=95733
B-but then enemies never get crushable...
This is the main flaw with the system.
You COULD set relative percentages that are different for each monster, but it's still boring.
Just playtest and you'll be fine!
Just playtest and you'll be fine!
Better to have semi-scaling for areas, maybe using party average level and area level to get monster level?
m = (p/2) + a
Thoughts?
m = (p/2) + a
Thoughts?
Alternatively, using 80% of the player's stats but only within integer ranges of x-y for an area. Otherwise, it uses the min or max.
DFalcon
2141
I don't necessarily believe that no one can do well what Oblivion did badly, but there are definitely issues to work through. For example, if you do this, what's the point of letting your characters level? Wouldn't it usually be easier just to keep their stats fixed? Are you going to give them some progression that monsters don't scale to, like more options or equipment stats, or rely on always changing the enemies they face to keep things interesting?
As it happens I'm not planning to have any real stat progression in my current project, but it's a tactics game so the concerns are a little different.
As it happens I'm not planning to have any real stat progression in my current project, but it's a tactics game so the concerns are a little different.
Yoshio
774
I eliminate grinding by taking a cue from the paper mario games and eliminating random battles
that way I have a very good idea of how strong the player will be when they reach each area and boss
it takes awhile to balance everything but this method reduces player frustration by a ton if you get it right
that way I have a very good idea of how strong the player will be when they reach each area and boss
it takes awhile to balance everything but this method reduces player frustration by a ton if you get it right
Drakonais
2787
This has thought crossed my mind several times after I prepare for a final boss only to find the actual fight a simple matter of using my best spells repeatedly to achieve inevitable victory. No challenge whatsoever.
While I feel like you should be able to dominate enemies after leveling a sufficient amount, bosses should always offer a challenge, so I would favor a relative difficulty within reason. Something like, at a certain level, as the hero's stats improve 100%, the boss' stats improve by 75%.
While I feel like you should be able to dominate enemies after leveling a sufficient amount, bosses should always offer a challenge, so I would favor a relative difficulty within reason. Something like, at a certain level, as the hero's stats improve 100%, the boss' stats improve by 75%.
Relyt
1242
I like what you're saying Drakonais. Maybe the idea would work much better on boss battles, just not on encounters.
Fractal Advocate
1252
If the stats of the party directly effect the stats of the monsters they face, then there's no real point to levelling stats, at least, and you're basically just giving the party the illusion of getting stronger - but it's a pretty weak illusion, since if they go back to an early area to fight slimes, the slimes will be as tough as they were before(except now they might have new spells/abilities that deal with them better, I suppose - but they would have had those without stat-based levelling).
If you want the player to be at a fairly consistent level of power vs the monsters they face, it makes more sense to me to reduce the effects of levelling(if the player gets less stats at level up, it's basically the same as averaging the party and monster level by a certain percentage), or remove them altogether, or do as Yoshio said and only have a certain amount of XP available.
I guess if you only care about boss difficulty, Drakonais' suggestion makes sense, but...
Basing monster stats directly off party stats makes stat+ equipment essentially useless compared to special effects equipment, and also means you can weaken a pure physical monster by equipping all magic+ gear and attacking with pure magic, or vica versa, weaken a strong evasion monster by de-equipping all your evade gear for stuff that hampers movement, etc.
If you do it directly by level, so monster level = X+party level, I imagine you get FF8 syndrome, where you should stay as low level as you can so the best equipment/spells make more of a difference.
If you want the player to be at a fairly consistent level of power vs the monsters they face, it makes more sense to me to reduce the effects of levelling(if the player gets less stats at level up, it's basically the same as averaging the party and monster level by a certain percentage), or remove them altogether, or do as Yoshio said and only have a certain amount of XP available.
I guess if you only care about boss difficulty, Drakonais' suggestion makes sense, but...
Basing monster stats directly off party stats makes stat+ equipment essentially useless compared to special effects equipment, and also means you can weaken a pure physical monster by equipping all magic+ gear and attacking with pure magic, or vica versa, weaken a strong evasion monster by de-equipping all your evade gear for stuff that hampers movement, etc.
If you do it directly by level, so monster level = X+party level, I imagine you get FF8 syndrome, where you should stay as low level as you can so the best equipment/spells make more of a difference.
Linear difficulty in general suffers from the the same things. Even when you are improving, it feels like you are standing still.
Drakonais
2787
I prefer complexity curves to standard difficulty. Start throwing in transformations/status afflictions/specific weak points instead of "Oh, this enemy takes 4 attacks to kill instead of 3."
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