SKILL PROGRESSION SYSTEM HELP
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I am currently in the pre-development stage of an rpg I am making and have been pondering over what type of skill system to use for the multiple characters the player will acquire through the first half of the game. Firstly, this game follows a traditional format of the story giving the player a number of characters (a total of ten in my game), and then allowing the player to make four-member parties from the characters that they have gathered thus far (which they can change at party changing stations). My initial design was just to have each character acquire skills as they level up much like your typical rpg. All they had to do is level up, and if they reach the required level, their character learns a skill that goes with their character's traits (warrior, healer, assassin, etc).
And then I was thinking some more into the process and figured that a lot of players, casual or hardcore, enjoy customizing their characters to certain extents. It's why you have the class system in the early FF games, the character customization system in Baldur's Gate, the Materia system in Final Fantasy 7, and the skill-based system in Fable. But there is a problem allowing players to customize their characters how you like: they end up making some characters the same or end up faulty doing something wrong in making the game either easier or harder depending on the choices they make. On the designer's side, that becomes hard to balance. But then I looked at another system: Seiken Densetsu 3, a Japanese rpg from the SNES days. In this game, all characters followed a set class format, yet they could choose in what areas to have their characters specialize in through going through 2 upgrades and choosing to go either a "Light" path or a "Dark" path. Technically, this corresponded to the player focusing more on defense or offense in terms of their class's skills, or going through a hybrid of the two to give versatility. In short, Light = defense/support skills and dark usually = power, offense, and lack of defense skills.
So I figured I could use that concept instead. I won't have to worry much about a player not having the right character setup to tackle the game's challenges in terms of battles while allowing the player some sort of freedom in determining how they want to create their characters. I don't mind players choosing "favorite" characters, as long as they realize that each character has their own unique feature. So if you don't have the character in the party or if you choose to not worry about them, you'll end up missing out on what they have to offer.
Anyway, the skill progression system: each player will have a hidden tech tree which has two paths: an offensive path and a defensive/support path. In battle, this corresponds to two skill commands. Let's use a character from my game.
We'll call him Richard, and Richard is a gun user who is very skilled at using these weapons, especially pistols, thus being the only one who can dual wield them. He has two skill commands: Gunplay and Support (will be given a more proper name later).
Gunplay skills deal with mostly using his pistols to do gun-based attacks, such as releasing a barrage of shots on an enemy for example to aiming to cripple an enemy by shooting them in the legs. As long as he has a pistol equipped (since there are three classes of guns in this game: handgun, medium-weight, and heavyweight), he can use most of the skills.
Support skills mainly deal with skills that help both Richard and the party, such as buffing his attack or doing other supportive/defensive skills appropriate to his "Gunslinger" class, which is mainly a mix between a Fighter and a Ranger.
Now, Richard will have these two skills outside of battle have a level, and they both start at Level 1. They can both go up to a max of Level 10. Here's where my idea comes in. When the player completes a battle, they gain a certain number of TP that depends on how difficult the enemies are at this part of the game, for ramping reasons. Using this TP, the player can choose to level up one of Richard's skill sets, as long as they have the required number of TP needed to level up. When the skillset is leveled up, the player is said to be "a little bit better." At certain levels of this skill, the player's skills in the set will get either a decrease or increase in their EP cost (the game's MP), and/or a increase in the skill's effect. When the skillset levels up, if the player's level fits the requirements for a skill or skills in the set that have been unlocked due to the skillset's new level, the player will instantly acquire the skills. Otherwise, the player must wait to acquire the skills currently provided by the skillset's level through reaching the required level for each one.
For example:
At Gunplay Level 2, the skill Bleeding Shot is available, which is an attack that causes the target to take on a "Bleeding" status. The required level for the character to be at to get this skill is Level 5. If Richard is currently level 5 or greater, he will instantly acquire this skill. Otherwise, he must wait to level up to Level 5 himself in order to get it.
There's a problem with this concept, however. A vigilant player will be able to eventually level up all skillsets to the max, no matter how much TP I ramp up. Therefore, I came up with an alternate TP acquirement system: have the player gain TP everytime they level up. This way, I can control how much TP a character can get in their entire lifetime from Level 1 to the max level, and it'll make the player decide if they want to go down one route, go down the other, or go down both equally to go for a hybrid. I may just have it where the player no longer acquires TP after a certain level, that way players don't feel obligated that they have to max the level of their character just to get all the TP they can. But on the other side, there will be players who will want to get the reward of more TP should they max their character. Otherwise, they lose more incentive to continue to level up. So if I do the TP till max level, I will at least have it to where the player will be able to maybe level up a skill up once or twice but only by that much upon maxing out the character.
So, what do you guys think about this system? Anything else I need to think about?
And then I was thinking some more into the process and figured that a lot of players, casual or hardcore, enjoy customizing their characters to certain extents. It's why you have the class system in the early FF games, the character customization system in Baldur's Gate, the Materia system in Final Fantasy 7, and the skill-based system in Fable. But there is a problem allowing players to customize their characters how you like: they end up making some characters the same or end up faulty doing something wrong in making the game either easier or harder depending on the choices they make. On the designer's side, that becomes hard to balance. But then I looked at another system: Seiken Densetsu 3, a Japanese rpg from the SNES days. In this game, all characters followed a set class format, yet they could choose in what areas to have their characters specialize in through going through 2 upgrades and choosing to go either a "Light" path or a "Dark" path. Technically, this corresponded to the player focusing more on defense or offense in terms of their class's skills, or going through a hybrid of the two to give versatility. In short, Light = defense/support skills and dark usually = power, offense, and lack of defense skills.
So I figured I could use that concept instead. I won't have to worry much about a player not having the right character setup to tackle the game's challenges in terms of battles while allowing the player some sort of freedom in determining how they want to create their characters. I don't mind players choosing "favorite" characters, as long as they realize that each character has their own unique feature. So if you don't have the character in the party or if you choose to not worry about them, you'll end up missing out on what they have to offer.
Anyway, the skill progression system: each player will have a hidden tech tree which has two paths: an offensive path and a defensive/support path. In battle, this corresponds to two skill commands. Let's use a character from my game.
We'll call him Richard, and Richard is a gun user who is very skilled at using these weapons, especially pistols, thus being the only one who can dual wield them. He has two skill commands: Gunplay and Support (will be given a more proper name later).
Gunplay skills deal with mostly using his pistols to do gun-based attacks, such as releasing a barrage of shots on an enemy for example to aiming to cripple an enemy by shooting them in the legs. As long as he has a pistol equipped (since there are three classes of guns in this game: handgun, medium-weight, and heavyweight), he can use most of the skills.
Support skills mainly deal with skills that help both Richard and the party, such as buffing his attack or doing other supportive/defensive skills appropriate to his "Gunslinger" class, which is mainly a mix between a Fighter and a Ranger.
Now, Richard will have these two skills outside of battle have a level, and they both start at Level 1. They can both go up to a max of Level 10. Here's where my idea comes in. When the player completes a battle, they gain a certain number of TP that depends on how difficult the enemies are at this part of the game, for ramping reasons. Using this TP, the player can choose to level up one of Richard's skill sets, as long as they have the required number of TP needed to level up. When the skillset is leveled up, the player is said to be "a little bit better." At certain levels of this skill, the player's skills in the set will get either a decrease or increase in their EP cost (the game's MP), and/or a increase in the skill's effect. When the skillset levels up, if the player's level fits the requirements for a skill or skills in the set that have been unlocked due to the skillset's new level, the player will instantly acquire the skills. Otherwise, the player must wait to acquire the skills currently provided by the skillset's level through reaching the required level for each one.
For example:
At Gunplay Level 2, the skill Bleeding Shot is available, which is an attack that causes the target to take on a "Bleeding" status. The required level for the character to be at to get this skill is Level 5. If Richard is currently level 5 or greater, he will instantly acquire this skill. Otherwise, he must wait to level up to Level 5 himself in order to get it.
There's a problem with this concept, however. A vigilant player will be able to eventually level up all skillsets to the max, no matter how much TP I ramp up. Therefore, I came up with an alternate TP acquirement system: have the player gain TP everytime they level up. This way, I can control how much TP a character can get in their entire lifetime from Level 1 to the max level, and it'll make the player decide if they want to go down one route, go down the other, or go down both equally to go for a hybrid. I may just have it where the player no longer acquires TP after a certain level, that way players don't feel obligated that they have to max the level of their character just to get all the TP they can. But on the other side, there will be players who will want to get the reward of more TP should they max their character. Otherwise, they lose more incentive to continue to level up. So if I do the TP till max level, I will at least have it to where the player will be able to maybe level up a skill up once or twice but only by that much upon maxing out the character.
So, what do you guys think about this system? Anything else I need to think about?
post=101839
A vigilant player will be able to eventually level up all skillsets to the max, no matter how much TP I ramp up.
You shouldn't remove the reward for people who want to be really good at your game. Some people are skill collectors at heart. I'd say just make it a lot harder to get the skills by grinding at the beginning than to just progress through the game.
Moved to Game Design.
post=101846post=101839You shouldn't remove the reward for people who want to be really good at your game. Some people are skill collectors at heart. I'd say just make it a lot harder to get the skills by grinding at the beginning than to just progress through the game.
A vigilant player will be able to eventually level up all skillsets to the max, no matter how much TP I ramp up.
Yeah, this would be a good solution to the whole ordeal. Plus, this is a single player game, so there's less worrying about character's losing balance over others due some unfair advantage.
@WIP: Sorry. Was having trouble figuring out where to put the topic, so I chose based on what the other threads in each subforum contained.
The problem with cutting off gaining TP at, say, level 40, is that might be when you reach the end of the game. The player might not reach the end of the game until level 70 or later, at which point, there would have been NO point gains for over 30 levels.
Even Dragon Quest VIII kept the skill points gaining until level 99, as long as that takes. Not everyone advances at the same rates, especially compared to the developer.
Even Dragon Quest VIII kept the skill points gaining until level 99, as long as that takes. Not everyone advances at the same rates, especially compared to the developer.
I'm going to honestly say that this is a tl;dr topic. I'm interested enough in the subject but I don't care enough to read the entire topic. WALL OF TEXT is not appealing.
You will attract more attention if you make a better OP.
You will attract more attention if you make a better OP.
post=102630
I'm going to honestly say that this is a tl;dr topic. I'm interested enough in the subject but I don't care enough to read the entire topic. WALL OF TEXT is not appealing.
You will attract more attention if you make a better OP.
This is certainly true. I tried to gleam what the topic was about by reading the much shorter responses rather than try to sort out the main post. If you're going to lay a bunch of information on us at once, use things that will help people who are only sort of interested become more interested, like separating the most pertinent information or by using wonderful bulleted lists!
To tell you the truth, it's hard to narrow it down to make it easier to understand. I wrote that much because that describes my thought process, why I chose the mechanics that I did, and why I am questioning them.
But the gist of it is:
I want to do a skill-based system that gives a character more customization inside the boundaries of their "preset speciality." And I was wondering if my method of allowing a player to choose a certain number of "modes" will allow them further customization.
However, I am discussing the same thing on another forum, and an idea one gave was to create a series of branches that exists through all characters, and each branch is specialized: for example, all skills along a branch are attack-orientated skills or another branch has support skills, all branches being relative to the function of their specific class. The addition to this is that the player can choose any skill right at the start and level them up individually. This way, the player isn't wasting points just to acquire a skill that needs another skill as a pre-requisite.
But the gist of it is:
I want to do a skill-based system that gives a character more customization inside the boundaries of their "preset speciality." And I was wondering if my method of allowing a player to choose a certain number of "modes" will allow them further customization.
However, I am discussing the same thing on another forum, and an idea one gave was to create a series of branches that exists through all characters, and each branch is specialized: for example, all skills along a branch are attack-orientated skills or another branch has support skills, all branches being relative to the function of their specific class. The addition to this is that the player can choose any skill right at the start and level them up individually. This way, the player isn't wasting points just to acquire a skill that needs another skill as a pre-requisite.
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