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DIFFICULT BOSS BATTLES, SKIPPABLE CUTSCENES, AND RAGE
Posts
Karsuman
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CloseOr maybe the game maker should realize that not everyone cares about the hero's awkward love triangle or excessive wangst and wants to get to the gameplay.
Neophyte
155
I really like cake, but sometimes you get that really bad frosting or topping that you just don't like. If I had to eat it instead of scraping it off, then it would be less enjoyable. =(
DFalcon
2141
Even with the greatest save system ever there are plenty of reasons someone playing the game may have seen a cutscene before. Letting people skip them (and perhaps replay them, if you're that concerned) can help a lot.
post=121086Giving the player a chance to skip through your crappy dialogue isn't the same as fixing said crappy dialogue. If anything, it encourages more people to play through your game and not pay attention to anything in it. I don't play an RPG so I can skip through cutscenes and mash the A button to win fights. No one should, indie, RM* or otherwise.
Or maybe the game maker should realize that not everyone cares about the hero's awkward love triangle or excessive wangst and wants to get to the gameplay.
Yes, truth is, a lot of people are gonna skip through the wordy dialogue. But rewarding those people who know nothing about the storyline (or don't care to know) by allowing them to progress through the game by spoonfeeding it to them isn't smart either.
Radnen
1806
post=121109
No one should, indie, RM* or otherwise.
I love how you separate RM* and indie, haha.
Making the point that the bar is set a lot lower on a game made with rpg maker than one that wasn't.
post=121086
Or maybe the game maker should realize that not everyone cares about the hero's awkward love triangle or excessive wangst and wants to get to the gameplay.
Like I said, play another game. Such a player shouldn't expect a game creator to cater to that. Of course, I like the idea of skippable cutscenes, but if there's ever a 'one or the other' scenario between catering to people who like gameplay to story in RPGs, I'm going to go with the story.
If I'm playing a plot oriented game, I can't get angry at the game designer for prioritizing plot over gameplay. The opposite is true as well in gameplay oriented games. "Arrggh, I don't want to play this level in Modern Warfare 2, I just want to see the cutscenes in between levels! How DARE they force me to slog through gameplay I'm not interested in!"
Like I said, I support skippable cutscenes for reasons like, if you're replaying a segment of the game, but I'm not going to expect any sort of preference towards the gamers who aren't interested in the plot. Sorry, the game's not for you. No loss. There are many others who DO enjoy it.
You can't make your game appeal to all audiences and all preferences, indie or professional wise.
MOG, that's not what karsu's saying. He's saying that you don't need idiotic stories to begin with. Do you really want to play Tales of Phantasia? Do you?
Darken
3952
post=121109
But rewarding those people who know nothing about the storyline (or don't care to know) by allowing them to progress through the game by spoonfeeding it to them isn't smart either.
So the player should be punished for not giving a shit for the horid story AND missing a vital line or two?
I was playing Trauma Center New Blood the other day and the cutscenes are really stale and boring. I skip almost all of them just to get to the operations which end up sometimes being shorter . You can actually play through the entire game without seeing the story or even the briefing. I prefer the keep it that way.
The story is just there to explain why you are shooting squid like monsters with surgical lasers in someone's body. If you don't care why, then there should be no problem.
post=121129
MOG, that's not what karsu's saying. He's saying that you don't need idiotic stories to begin with. Do you really want to play Tales of Phantasia? Do you?
Tales games have fun battles and interesting (if not a bit... overdone/overcomplicated) stories. I remember loving Tales of Symphonia, and I still like some of the later parts of Abyss.
post=121131
The story is just there to explain why you are shooting squid like monsters with surgical lasers in someone's body. If you don't care why, then there should be no problem.
Well, that makes sense for something like Trauma Center, I suppose. But Trauma Center is full of new and intuitive gameplay. My or any RM game can have as many custom battle systems as it likes, but the gameplay is typically standard fare. I've done my best to spice it up and keep it lively, interesting and challenging, so that people who really enjoy RPG gameplay would have fun and get into the battles.
The story is part of an RPG, or at least, my game. I suppose I could let people skip cutscenes. But Sonic 1 could have let me skip past Labryinth Zone when I was a kid, too.
post=121129
MOG, that's not what karsu's saying. He's saying that you don't need idiotic stories to begin with. Do you really want to play Tales of Phantasia? Do you?
I've actually never played Phantasia. But yeah, I mean, that goes without saying. You should make your plot as good as possible obviously. But like I said, skippable cutscenes are a good idea, I'm not arguing against that. I'm just saying that if I was a game creator, professional or otherwise, I'm only going to make so many allowances to allow people to skim through the plot in a plot integral genre like an RPG.
In terms of an RPG, the plot is central to the experience. If the player dislikes the plot so much to want to skip through all or most of it, sorry, play another game. They'll be others.
But I'm all for the above suggestion to never put any integral gameplay information in anything that can be glossed over or missed, like a cutscene (when you can avoid it). However, in an RPG, one should expect that if you gloss over ALL of the plot material, you are going to miss some shit. Maybe not anything integral to playing or beating the game, but you may just miss a sidequest, or hidden equipment, or something else gameplay related. I want to reward the player for keeping his eyes open and ears alert throughout the entire experience, plot included, not just to gloss over the plot in a glaze and still expect to get everything in the gameplay. The experience should be one, not two separate aspects. Having recently just finished Mass Effect 2, that game melded the two beautifully.
Darken
3952
post=121139
Well, that makes sense for something like Trauma Center, I suppose. But Trauma Center is full of new and intuitive gameplay. My or any RM game can have as many custom battle systems as it likes, but the gameplay is typically standard fare. I've done my best to spice it up and keep it lively, interesting and challenging, so that people who really enjoy RPG gameplay would have fun and get into the battles.
You wouldn't really need the horrible story (if it was horrible anyway) to enjoy/excel the ideal gameplay that you mentioned.
post=121142post=121139You wouldn't really need the horrible story (if it was horrible anyway) to enjoy/excel the ideal gameplay that you mentioned.
Well, that makes sense for something like Trauma Center, I suppose. But Trauma Center is full of new and intuitive gameplay. My or any RM game can have as many custom battle systems as it likes, but the gameplay is typically standard fare. I've done my best to spice it up and keep it lively, interesting and challenging, so that people who really enjoy RPG gameplay would have fun and get into the battles.
I'm willing to admit I want people to listen to and like my story. I suppose adding skippable cutscenes would make more people play it and that people who want to watch cutscenes will still watch anyway. But breaking up the game into pieces of "Do you want to watch this cutscene? You don't have to. It's okay." breaks the fourth wall horrendously. It also means double-coding to make sure that stuff that happens during the cutscene is still done even if you don't watch it (ex. a window breaking).
The main thing I'm trying to say is that the storyline (crappy or not) is generally a very integral part of the rpg. If people are playing it so they can spam the attack button and skip through all the text, they're not playing it because it's an rpg. I'm not sure why they're playing it in the first place, actually.
If you have an option to skip cutscenes AFTER a game over, then that's fine, especially if there were cutscenes before the boss battle that killed you. But allowing the skipping of cutscenes all the time encourages people to skip them. I'll admit that if I'm not into a storyline, I'll speed read it. Spam the a button or whatever and catch most of what the text is saying to me. I'm sure a lot of people do that too. If you let them skip it, they won't even do that.
In my first game, I made a minigame that was mandatory to the progression of the main game. It was a quiz on the story elements up that point. (What's your last name? What's the King's name? etc) All of the questions were answered multiple times through the cutscenes in the game, and all but two of them could actually be found again off of the random npcs in the town the quiz was in.
I'm probably just a dick, but I added that game to MAKE SURE people were paying attention to little things in the dialogue, because that was how hints in the game were going to show up later. I got many emails and many PMs asking the answers to various questions, and I gladly answered them, however.
If you have an option to skip cutscenes AFTER a game over, then that's fine, especially if there were cutscenes before the boss battle that killed you. But allowing the skipping of cutscenes all the time encourages people to skip them. I'll admit that if I'm not into a storyline, I'll speed read it. Spam the a button or whatever and catch most of what the text is saying to me. I'm sure a lot of people do that too. If you let them skip it, they won't even do that.
In my first game, I made a minigame that was mandatory to the progression of the main game. It was a quiz on the story elements up that point. (What's your last name? What's the King's name? etc) All of the questions were answered multiple times through the cutscenes in the game, and all but two of them could actually be found again off of the random npcs in the town the quiz was in.
I'm probably just a dick, but I added that game to MAKE SURE people were paying attention to little things in the dialogue, because that was how hints in the game were going to show up later. I got many emails and many PMs asking the answers to various questions, and I gladly answered them, however.
Radnen
1806
I hate reading long posts. :(
To summarize: A speed up text button is great, it offers you enough story to get the idea while not taking up your time.
To summarize: A speed up text button is great, it offers you enough story to get the idea while not taking up your time.
AznChipmunk
4613
My games are quite story-driven and some even have interactive cutscenes with choices that have varying effects, so I wouldn't make them skippable.
post=121166
My games are quite story-driven and some even have interactive cutscenes with choices that have varying effects, so I wouldn't make them skippable.
This is the biggest problem with Persona 4. Sometimes your choices affect you, and sometimes they're really important, and sometimes they add dungeons to the game. As such, they're not skippable. Also, the boss battles will likely kill you. HAVE FUN (seriously, have fun, it's a great game, but sksdng)
I think any cutscene with meaningful player interaction is exempt. (But Thou Must does not count, Push X to Not Die does)
Except any scene involving Carth. In fact there should be a "Punch Carth and throw him off a building" option with Skip Cutscene
Except any scene involving Carth. In fact there should be a "Punch Carth and throw him off a building" option with Skip Cutscene
