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OLD-SCHOOL VS. NEW-SCHOOL
Posts
yamata no orochi
184
yamata no orochi
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CloseThere's a lot of good "old-school" games these days--Hero's Realm, Dragon Fantasy, Paradise Blue, etc. Is this a good thing, or could it potentially be harmful? Should we be trying to replicate the brilliance of the early Final Fantasies and Dragon Quests (and Terranigmas and Tales of Phantasias, I guess) or should we be reaching for new heights (and perhaps failing miserably)?
Personally, I like old SNES RPGs, but I thought it might be interesting to hear what everyone else thinks on the subject, if that's alright.
Personally, I like old SNES RPGs, but I thought it might be interesting to hear what everyone else thinks on the subject, if that's alright.
When I design and make a game, I start out trying to emulate the games I like. I borrow ideas and concepts from games that I enjoyed myself and do my best to incorporate them in a fun and engaging way in RM2k3's limited engine.
So, as far as emulating old-school goes, I don't think it's a bad thing. These games were popular and fun for a reason - there's no real gain to throwing that away simply because it's been done to death.
Polish it off and put a new spin on it. It works for me.
So, as far as emulating old-school goes, I don't think it's a bad thing. These games were popular and fun for a reason - there's no real gain to throwing that away simply because it's been done to death.
Polish it off and put a new spin on it. It works for me.
Unka Josh
32
Why be stuck with binary definitions? I suppose any game I do is bound to be kinda old school-- I'm not young, after all. But I do like to put my own spin on things, to the limits of what I can actually do.
Of course, my lack of artistic skills has an effect-- I have to do something that fits the graphics that I have available, which, with RMXP, winds up looking like old school fantasy, because that's what there is.
(I do try to be creative with it, though...)
Of course, my lack of artistic skills has an effect-- I have to do something that fits the graphics that I have available, which, with RMXP, winds up looking like old school fantasy, because that's what there is.
(I do try to be creative with it, though...)
I think it's just part of the different genres of games coming out. I enjoy gameplay elements from old school RPGs, but also like things from more modern games.
I think the lack of honest feedback and people communicating is having a worse effect.
I think the lack of honest feedback and people communicating is having a worse effect.
author=WIP link=topic=573.msg7662#msg7662 date=1200601656What do you mean by this, exactly? You mean when people review a developer's game, or do you mean a developer not being honest about his game being old school?
I think the lack of honest feedback and people communicating is having a worse effect.
Hmm. I don't generally classify my games as old school or new school. I'd say they're all pretty much old school graphically, as RM doesn't quite let me do 3D.
Actually, Paradise Blue was an experiment, when I was working off of one of Ephiams game. I had a lot of fun working on fixing it and adding things that I just went overboard and made it my game. I look to good old school games on how they do dungeons, battles, character growth and stuff. FF6 is a really good example and a great game to learn from. But otherwise, I like to try different things. My previous games are nothing like Paradise Blue. My future games aren't likely to be like Paradise Blue.
Also, working on 8 bit style graphics helped me learn a lot about doing pixel art, so I would recommend it if you like making custom stuff. With all the restrictions and stuff, it can actually be harder to make graphics for it than if you have complete freedom to do whatever.
About copying games, I do take what I like from them, but other than PB, I don't tend to make games based on others. But overall, I want it to be fun to play.
Actually, Paradise Blue was an experiment, when I was working off of one of Ephiams game. I had a lot of fun working on fixing it and adding things that I just went overboard and made it my game. I look to good old school games on how they do dungeons, battles, character growth and stuff. FF6 is a really good example and a great game to learn from. But otherwise, I like to try different things. My previous games are nothing like Paradise Blue. My future games aren't likely to be like Paradise Blue.
Also, working on 8 bit style graphics helped me learn a lot about doing pixel art, so I would recommend it if you like making custom stuff. With all the restrictions and stuff, it can actually be harder to make graphics for it than if you have complete freedom to do whatever.
About copying games, I do take what I like from them, but other than PB, I don't tend to make games based on others. But overall, I want it to be fun to play.
author=kentona link=topic=573.msg7665#msg7665 date=1200602808I mean there are worse things in the community than having oldschool games.author=WIP link=topic=573.msg7662#msg7662 date=1200601656What do you mean by this, exactly? You mean when people review a developer's game, or do you mean a developer not being honest about his game being old school?
I think the lack of honest feedback and people communicating is having a worse effect.
Euphorian
80
Though I can understand a nostalgia factor, 'old-school' doesn't really seem practical. It would be more nostalgic to actually play the old school games, so trying to emulate that style seems like an excuse to laziness, counter-progressiveness... Well, I know that's not true, but still. Why regress on quality?
I have very little appreciation for the old school games personally. However, that could be because I've never even touched a SNES in my life, and don't have the attention span for games such as Earthbound.
I have very little appreciation for the old school games personally. However, that could be because I've never even touched a SNES in my life, and don't have the attention span for games such as Earthbound.
author=Euphorian link=topic=573.msg7683#msg7683 date=1200610004You'd be surprised by how thought out "old school" games are. You don't need fancy dancy graphics to give a great gameplay experience or story. Graphics and sound are there to heighten the game, not make it.
Though I can understand a nostalgia factor, 'old-school' doesn't really seem practical. It would be more nostalgic to actually play the old school games, so trying to emulate that style seems like an excuse to laziness, counter-progressiveness... Well, I know that's not true, but still. Why regress on quality?
I have very little appreciation for the old school games personally. However, that could be because I've never even touched a SNES in my life, and don't have the attention span for games such as Earthbound.
author=Euphorian link=topic=573.msg7683#msg7683 date=1200610004You poor, poor child.
I have very little appreciation for the old school games personally. However, that could be because I've never even touched a SNES in my life, and don't have the attention span for games such as Earthbound.
It must be sad to live in an age where games are glorified for how they look rather than how they play. :'(
Shadowtext
120
Yeah, I'm with WIP. There's room for both. There are thousands of people in the indie gaming community, and I've got no problem with some of them being innovators and others being people who take other people's innovations and do awesome things with them.
And I imagine 90% of people who are seriously part of the community (that is to say, not just people who are dabbling around and will forget about the whole thing in a month or so) fall somewhere between the two anyway.
Some of the best and most popular indie games are pretty old school--look at Cave Story, Alien Hominid and Every Extend. But there are also a lot of popular indie games that go for more innovative faire, like Geometry Wars, flOw, and Line Rider. You'll notice that all of the games I'm naming are the ones that get so popular and beloved that they got professional console versions released. That's not an accident.
RMN is a small but growing subset of the indie gaming community, but the same rules apply here as there--the fact that the RPG presence here is especially strong doesn't change the old school/new school thing.
And I imagine 90% of people who are seriously part of the community (that is to say, not just people who are dabbling around and will forget about the whole thing in a month or so) fall somewhere between the two anyway.
Some of the best and most popular indie games are pretty old school--look at Cave Story, Alien Hominid and Every Extend. But there are also a lot of popular indie games that go for more innovative faire, like Geometry Wars, flOw, and Line Rider. You'll notice that all of the games I'm naming are the ones that get so popular and beloved that they got professional console versions released. That's not an accident.
RMN is a small but growing subset of the indie gaming community, but the same rules apply here as there--the fact that the RPG presence here is especially strong doesn't change the old school/new school thing.
author=Euphorian link=topic=573.msg7683#msg7683 date=1200610004Dude. That's just tragic. Do you have any idea how good Earthbound is? Or Terranigma?
I have very little appreciation for the old school games personally. However, that could be because I've never even touched a SNES in my life, and don't have the attention span for games such as Earthbound.
Euphorian
80
author=WIP link=topic=573.msg7685#msg7685 date=1200612656That's not what I mean. I'm saying it's not just one or the other, so I don't see the point of making it that way -either you have great game play and story, or great music and graphics.
You'd be surprised by how thought out "old school" games are. You don't need fancy dancy graphics to give a great gameplay experience or story. Graphics and sound are there to heighten the game, not make it.
So why have bad graphics when you can have good ones? And still have good gameplay either way?
Dude. That's just tragic. Do you have any idea how good Earthbound is? Or Terranigma?Yeah, I've played a little bit in to Earthbound. Though I'll get shot for saying it, I can't stand the battles. Way too slow. Same with Chrono Trigger. Never heard of Terranigma, except for the category of chipsets ripped from it on phylomortis or whatever. >.<
Canuck
0
Dragon Quest VII was delayed for a year because they wanted to make sure all the stats of the monsters were good and the difficulty flowed at a good pace. They also wanted to make sure there's lots of different kinds of monster groupings and whatnot. To me, that is an old school thing to do, and I haven't played RPG maker games in a few years, but I hope they'd do that.
Another old school element that seemed to have gotten lost that I like is telling a story through interactivity and not long cutscenes. Video games are an interactive medium and it stories can unfold by doing things like turning on radios, overhearing conversations, examining objects in rooms and whatnot. It requires NPCs to say a completely different thing after every single event and for environments to constantly be changing in little ways. Dragon Quest VII also did this perfectly with the main town.
So who cares about old school and new school, people should emulate the Dragon Quest series.
I'm out of the loop, if any games do fulfill these things, please let me know.
Another old school element that seemed to have gotten lost that I like is telling a story through interactivity and not long cutscenes. Video games are an interactive medium and it stories can unfold by doing things like turning on radios, overhearing conversations, examining objects in rooms and whatnot. It requires NPCs to say a completely different thing after every single event and for environments to constantly be changing in little ways. Dragon Quest VII also did this perfectly with the main town.
So who cares about old school and new school, people should emulate the Dragon Quest series.
I'm out of the loop, if any games do fulfill these things, please let me know.
demondestiny
889
I used to love creating old school type games on rpg maker but now i find that designing more advanced menu and battle systems etc is kinda what i am into now. I still like to play the odd old-school type game such as Hero's Realm.
Shinan
4314
I'm not a big fan of "new old school". That is people setting out to do something that follows an old-school ideal. I'm much more excited about people trying to do something new and exciting. Be it graphics-wise, story-wise or gameplay-wise. A game can have "old-school" graphics but be very much not old-school because the story isn't or the gameplay mechanics aren't (example. Dwarf Fortress. You can't get a whole lot more old-school than ASCII graphics but the gameplay is above nearly anything made today)
Of course taking old concepts and perfecting them isn't too bad and I'll probably enjoy something like that too. But it's a lot easier to like a bad game that has awesome ideas than a bad game that tries to perfect old mechanics.
Of course taking old concepts and perfecting them isn't too bad and I'll probably enjoy something like that too. But it's a lot easier to like a bad game that has awesome ideas than a bad game that tries to perfect old mechanics.
Yeaster
6164
I don't mind "old school" or "new school." As long as the game is fun, I don't care what genre it is.
Although, I would prefer modern games, because of the "old school" games kind of mash together, for me. Modern-themed games to me are more interesting and more varied.
Although, I would prefer modern games, because of the "old school" games kind of mash together, for me. Modern-themed games to me are more interesting and more varied.
Erave
1444
Nothing artistic will ever be created if you keep going to the old and remaking it exactly as it was.
Erave
1444
author=kentona link=topic=573.msg7730#msg7730 date=1200683281
I'm not trying make anything artistic - I'm trying to make something fun.
Then you shouldn't worry about the game.
I do however hate the claim that "old school" games are more fun. There are lots of older games that I play daily (mario 3) however the addition of more features and functions doesn't make something less fun, it can make it more fun in some cases.
