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OLD-SCHOOL VS. NEW-SCHOOL
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WIP
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CloseYeah, old school and new school games can both be fun. Being one or the other doesn't make it more or less fun.
What I also hate, is how people think games that are original are automatically more fun. If that was true, Unlimited SaGa would be the most fun game ever.
What I also hate, is how people think games that are original are automatically more fun. If that was true, Unlimited SaGa would be the most fun game ever.
author=WIP link=topic=573.msg7732#msg7732 date=1200687710
What I also hate, is how people think games that are original are automatically more fun. If that was true, Unlimited SaGa would be the most fun game ever.
You just reminded me of Dawn of Mana >:(
:'(
RIP SD series
The old NES RPGs have been falling out of my favour as of late. Stale dungeons, uninteresting plots and even more boring characters (is there any difference to the heroes in FF3?). It isn't something exclusive to the NES RPGs, but it feels like the NES has the majority which is understandable since how long ago it was but at this point I'm up for something tastier than those dry old games. SNES and on though, its all good :)
(And I'm not hating the other NES games, mostly the RPGs. Bionic Commando is still loads of fun :D)
trance2
500
I don't really mind old-school so much. I mean, sure I get annoyed at massively high encounter rates in marathon-style dungeons, but I can tolerate them. I mean, FF3DS is one of my favorite Final Fantasies to date, and it retained pretty much all of its old-school gameplay, save the addition of the Quicksave. Which really does very little except lets you take a break in the middle of thus said marathon-style dungeons. Also, Dragon Quest 8: Journey of the Cursed King is love.
Plus, as WIP said, if original things are automatically fun, things like Unlimited SaGa, Xenosaga 2, and Rainbow Nightmare would be amazingly fun games. But are they? Maybe for someone with the attention span of a hamster. I think the only game that even close to pulled off "fun originality" was Katamari Damacy, and it's not even an RPG.
I haven't really played a lot of "recent" games, though, so I can't really attest to the "new-school" faction. I think the most recent game I have is circa 2006, and that's Tales of the Abyss, which is amazing fun. It still utilizes the old LMBS (with modifications, of course) and couples it with amazing characterization. Though it does have crazy long load times, and a non-sensical plot after a certain point, it is an amazingly fun game. I'm not sure if it fits the definition of "new-school," however.
I will admit, however, I think the game that most typifies "new-school," at least my definition of it, would be Mass Effect. Given that I haven't played it yet, I can't really give an opinion. Oh, and of course, the modern twist on Bionic Commando for the 360. I'd much rather prefer the 8-bit version, kthx. The new one is just... Too much action, not enough bionic arm platforming.
Plus, as WIP said, if original things are automatically fun, things like Unlimited SaGa, Xenosaga 2, and Rainbow Nightmare would be amazingly fun games. But are they? Maybe for someone with the attention span of a hamster. I think the only game that even close to pulled off "fun originality" was Katamari Damacy, and it's not even an RPG.
I haven't really played a lot of "recent" games, though, so I can't really attest to the "new-school" faction. I think the most recent game I have is circa 2006, and that's Tales of the Abyss, which is amazing fun. It still utilizes the old LMBS (with modifications, of course) and couples it with amazing characterization. Though it does have crazy long load times, and a non-sensical plot after a certain point, it is an amazingly fun game. I'm not sure if it fits the definition of "new-school," however.
I will admit, however, I think the game that most typifies "new-school," at least my definition of it, would be Mass Effect. Given that I haven't played it yet, I can't really give an opinion. Oh, and of course, the modern twist on Bionic Commando for the 360. I'd much rather prefer the 8-bit version, kthx. The new one is just... Too much action, not enough bionic arm platforming.
Yeaster
6164
I don't think I've ever played an NES RPG. Mostly because I have never owned one, but they don't really appeal to me, for obvious reasons.
Canuck
0
I think I wouldn't mind new school games originality if they could do basic things right. Or if new school games just gave focus some of the "core" elements in their games that almost seem to have no focus whatsoever. For example, new tilesets versus knowing how to place tiles, new battle systems versus knowing how to balance one out, outlandish religious plot using Abel and Cain versus knowing how to tell the simplest of stories effectively.
Another issue is this desire for new battle systems as opposed to perfecting one. If you compare video games to art (which is a debatable) then most art takes years of studying technique in order to do anything original, and styles are perfected over many different people. RPGs have a lot of styles that are half-assed and not perfected in the least. This applies to commercial games, and all the rpg maker games I played when I still played them.
Except Dragon Quest VII. It's perfect. Dragon Quest V too.
Another issue is this desire for new battle systems as opposed to perfecting one. If you compare video games to art (which is a debatable) then most art takes years of studying technique in order to do anything original, and styles are perfected over many different people. RPGs have a lot of styles that are half-assed and not perfected in the least. This applies to commercial games, and all the rpg maker games I played when I still played them.
Except Dragon Quest VII. It's perfect. Dragon Quest V too.
author=Yeaster link=topic=573.msg7815#msg7815 date=1200878931What are the reasons? It doesn't seem very obvious to me...
I don't think I've ever played an NES RPG. Mostly because I have never owned one, but they don't really appeal to me, for obvious reasons.
maladroithim
1495
author=trance2 link=topic=573.msg7800#msg7800 date=1200863872
I will admit, however, I think the game that most typifies "new-school," at least my definition of it, would be Mass Effect.
I'm not getting why the RPG-loving-I-haven't-upgraded-to-a-new-console-and-therefore-have-not-played-Mass-Effect crowd has this sort of attitude toward the game. It really is completely like KOTOR, except you have a crosshair and the battle system follows the now very well-established third-person shooting system used in every game from Gears of War to Kain and Lynch. There's nothing "new-school" about the game, unless, that is, you are talking about its completely useless inventory system. It's probably the most useless reference item I've ever seen in a video game aside from Mega Man VX's map system.
Though that depends on your definition of "new school". What exactly is your definition?
author=trance2 link=topic=573.msg7800#msg7800 date=1200863872
It still utilizes the old LMBS (with modifications, of course) and couples it with amazing characterization.
I would just like to comment that there is something fundamentally wrong with a ridiculous name like "Linear Motion Battle System" that is unintentionally very germaine to this topic. See Canuck's post:
author=Canuck link=topic=573.msg7833#msg7833 date=1200913924
I think I wouldn't mind new school games originality if they could do basic things right. Or if new school games just gave focus some of the "core" elements in their games that almost seem to have no focus whatsoever. For example, new tilesets versus knowing how to place tiles, new battle systems versus knowing how to balance one out, outlandish religious plot using Abel and Cain versus knowing how to tell the simplest of stories effectively.
Another issue is this desire for new battle systems as opposed to perfecting one. If you compare video games to art (which is a debatable) then most art takes years of studying technique in order to do anything original, and styles are perfected over many different people. RPGs have a lot of styles that are half-assed and not perfected in the least. This applies to commercial games, and all the rpg maker games I played when I still played them.
Except Dragon Quest VII. It's perfect. Dragon Quest V too.
As a footnote, I hate Dragon Quest VII so much but I have played through it three times. It is probably my favorite and most-played game by default even though it does awful things to you (such as taking characters away from you after 40 hours of playtime and replacing them with other characters that may or may not be anything like your prior build and being really, really, ridiculously long and not even having an antagonist). I also plan on playing it again soon on my PSP.
Canuck
0
That's such a simple amazing thing though that other games assume you can't do. Dragon Quest V is the best example of breaking assumption (spoilers ahead). In an insignificant tower, you turn to stone, and it lasts about 5-10 years. You're not the legendary hero, but your kids and your wife are (or its their bloodline).
Or even the idea of following a person's entire life. Or using monsters on your team, and you assume you don't get characters, and then BAM! you do.
Awesome.
Or even the idea of following a person's entire life. Or using monsters on your team, and you assume you don't get characters, and then BAM! you do.
Awesome.
maladroithim
1495
author=Canuck link=topic=573.msg7917#msg7917 date=1201091999
That's such a simple amazing thing though that other games assume you can't do. Dragon Quest V is the best example of breaking assumption (spoilers ahead). In an insignificant tower, you turn to stone, and it lasts about 5-10 years. You're not the legendary hero, but your kids and your wife are (or its their bloodline).
Or even the idea of following a person's entire life. Or using monsters on your team, and you assume you don't get characters, and then BAM! you do.
Awesome.
I think we've had this conversation online before, but it really *is* remarkable that the Dragon Quest series is in many ways the most innovative RPG series around.
