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CULTURE OF CRASS, APATHY AND CYNICISM
Posts
kentona
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Closepost=126748Well, the only thing available right now is the Resource Museum topic in the Help & Requests forum. That, or a new topic in Arts or Help&Requests showcasing your work.
Kentona, may I request a bit of information?
How does one 'give back' if one's time is limited (as my available gaming-time is), and one's skills are not largely in discussion? My three main interests in an RM environment are trying to make the battle engine do things it's not supposed to, without resorting to scripts, similar treatment of various event systems (I'm working on an in-game informational DB for a guy from RRR at the moment...I need to get back to him, actually), and generating sprite recolors/frankensprites of what I can find from the SNES days of Square. I've got a fair number of 2k3-formatted graphics files on one of my boxes as a result of this, and I'd love to be able to share them with the community, but I'm not certain exactly how to go about doing so - while I'll admit there is an 'artistic' forum, what I'm thinking of is something that I don't consider 'artistic' - and which I'm not certain would fit correctly in there.
Most RM game-dev sites I've been to have had a way to upload visual or audio resources for others to use, and displayed those for members and visitors to look over. Perhaps it's my own tunnel vision, but I'm failing to see that here - and considering where I see my skills as sitting, I'm having trouble figuring out how to give back without that. I don't want to -show off-, which is what I get the feeling the artistic forum is for, I just want to -present- what I've done so others can use it.
Any suggestions on this issue?
What would be cool would be if we could ALSO create Mediaprofiles, just like we can Gameprofiles. You'd create a mediaprofile to showcase your work (music, art, chapsets, etc..) that people can subscribe to. Heck, you could probably try to create a gameprofile for your work right now...if you think it would be accepted.
Do some of you really think places like GW and HBgames are "dying" just because they went "indie"? This is a serious question.
Yes, somewhat. There is a bit of a gap between the indie scene and amateur scene in terms of (overall) motivation, drive, maturity and willingness to challenge oneself. Not that I mind that difference, because I find that it also leads to a less competitive, more cooperative, easygoing experience - and that's what I'm looking for in a hobby. So, for an amateur site to jump into the "indie" scene a LOT of concerted effort would need to be made by the memberbase. Like, 70% of the people would need to be on board with the change to make it viable and still maintain the same general community as before. That didn't happen with GW, with the end result of many people jumping ship (or just giving it up completely). I don't know enough about HBGames to comment on it, though.
On the namechange & Rm2k3-dropping front: we have carved out a niche and have build up a brand and a community, and both those items are at the foundation of that (it's not the only things, of course, but they are not insignificant). Doing away with one or the other would be detrimental to the site as a whole. I'd rather just build up more of a site around them, and slowly make them less relevant not by outright eliminating them but by making the rest of the site content richer. Rm2k3 will eventually become less relevant once other, more attracting things become more prevalent.
@Craze: I have caught you out in a lie!!! You are actively following Generica: The Next Generation, a known and confirmed RM2k3 game! *GASP*
As to the site itself right now - I have no real beef with any of it. I think it actually pretty great! I would just like:
1) more activity from the memberbase (reviews, comments, games, articles, discussion, etc...)
2) a more engaged staff (ie- more events, reviews, content, drive)
3) more exposure for RMN outside of our little bubble.
For the vision of the site, what are we striving for? To be an awesomesauce developer community, or a coolbeans amateur RPG showcase? We have limited resources right now (named WIP), so we probably ought to have a common vision or mission statement.
post=126879Oh geo, we all know that you post out of love.post=126735:'(
I propose that we do the following:
1) Stop posting
uh
197
Mediaprofiles
I love this idea because I want to drum up some feedback for my engine from RMNers who aren't regularly on IRC (ie the vast majority) and since it's not a game I can't make a game profile for it and the SS topic is no more and I want to be accommodated waahhhh D:!
post=126888*ahem*
whoa who / where posted that idea ?? i would love somewhere to dump my music
Yeah, it was me. *rad sunglasses*
post=126837
This makes me laugh me but once again this isn't my place to talk about it. However tardis has been just as secretive about Chromatose really but yet, FF6 rips attract more attention than our original graphics.
Although I do like how you bolded a grammatical error.
Basically what I'm saying is that there isn't some intrinsic factor that makes games with original graphics more interesting on that merit alone. Original graphics are excellent if you can do them but it doesn't make a game fundamentally more fun or whatever. Chromatose looks great from an objective standpoint, but ultimately I'm not too interested in how it looks, original graphics or not.
Also yes I bolded a grammatical error because I got it like that.
At some point this thread spiraled into discussion about graphics. I don't think this is the time or the place.
As for the topic at hand....
I love this idea.
More reviews?! D: I am just one man. ;_;
I actually had an idea for this. Most of you are probably familiar with www.tvtropes.org. On that site, anything that exists, anywhere, in any form, can have a page there. Is there a good RM game you think deserves more attention? Make a page for it there! (Don't make one for your own game!) Put links to it on various trope pages! It's that kind of site. People will find their way to it eventually.
A few RM games already have them, in fact, including Master of the Wind (page originally made by myself, the game's fanbase have since generated a surprising amount of content), Visions and Voices, Exit Fate and The Way. TVTropes gets a huge amount of traffic, if we make enough pages and give people ways to get there, it's only a matter of time before you start seeing new people interested in them.
As for the topic at hand....
What would be cool would be if we could ALSO create Mediaprofiles, just like we can Gameprofiles. You'd create a mediaprofile to showcase your work (music, art, chapsets, etc..) that people can subscribe to.
I love this idea.
2) a more engaged staff (ie- more events, reviews, content, drive)
More reviews?! D: I am just one man. ;_;
3) more exposure for RMN outside of our little bubble.
I actually had an idea for this. Most of you are probably familiar with www.tvtropes.org. On that site, anything that exists, anywhere, in any form, can have a page there. Is there a good RM game you think deserves more attention? Make a page for it there! (Don't make one for your own game!) Put links to it on various trope pages! It's that kind of site. People will find their way to it eventually.
A few RM games already have them, in fact, including Master of the Wind (page originally made by myself, the game's fanbase have since generated a surprising amount of content), Visions and Voices, Exit Fate and The Way. TVTropes gets a huge amount of traffic, if we make enough pages and give people ways to get there, it's only a matter of time before you start seeing new people interested in them.
post=126937
I actually had an idea for this. Most of you are probably familiar with www.tvtropes.org. On that site, anything that exists, anywhere, in any form, can have a page there. Is there a good RM game you think deserves more attention? Make a page for it there! (Don't make one for your own game!) Put links to it on various trope pages! It's that kind of site. People will find their way to it eventually.
A few RM games already have them, in fact, including Master of the Wind (page originally made by myself, the game's fanbase have since generated a surprising amount of content), Visions and Voices, Exit Fate and The Way. TVTropes gets a huge amount of traffic, if we make enough pages and give people ways to get there, it's only a matter of time before you start seeing new people interested in them.
man that would be be the shit
Karsu and I are pretty sure that V&V's TVTropes page gets it at least fifteen downloads/day, or at least the majority of those. The rest are likely from Play This Thing and the billion blogs that link to/comment on PTT.
I wholeheartedly agree with this article!
I really wanted to write something exactly like this myself, but I thought everyone would ignore/ridicule it because of the underlying problem Kentona discusses here.
I feel this way all the time. The only insights or ideas I have is that everyone should do one of the things on your list at least once a day. Yes, I really care and no I don't think you're overstating the problem. In short:
Rock on, kentona. I am totally down for this.
-MM
P.S.'s...
What the fuck is Allinlia? I was about to play the WORLD TOWER our of a sense of vague guilt and beholdenness (: P ), I thought that was your game. : )
Is anyone not spending at least 90% of their game dev time thinking really hard and working their ass off on doing this? I don't think (hardly) anyone is making a game that is boring and shitty on purpose.
I really wanted to write something exactly like this myself, but I thought everyone would ignore/ridicule it because of the underlying problem Kentona discusses here.
Does anyone else feel this way sometimes? Do you have any insights or ideas? Do you really care? Maybe I am overstating the severity of the problem of crassitude, apathy and cynicism.
I feel this way all the time. The only insights or ideas I have is that everyone should do one of the things on your list at least once a day. Yes, I really care and no I don't think you're overstating the problem. In short:
Rock on, kentona. I am totally down for this.
-MM
P.S.'s...
P.S. I have yet to see the people who's games I have shown the most interest in (Max Mcgee, Merte, Kentona) give Allinlia the time of day but I like what you're saying.
What the fuck is Allinlia? I was about to play the WORLD TOWER our of a sense of vague guilt and beholdenness (: P ), I thought that was your game. : )
I know where you're going catmitts, and I would definitely add "Make good and interesting games" on kentona's original list.
Is anyone not spending at least 90% of their game dev time thinking really hard and working their ass off on doing this? I don't think (hardly) anyone is making a game that is boring and shitty on purpose.
whoa my name's blue
Max, I am so well respected by the community that I can get away with saying ANYTHING.
:toot:
Max, I am so well respected by the community that I can get away with saying ANYTHING.
:toot:
post=126952I was actually a secret double agent, bring the masses down from the inside. it was all part of an elaborate ploy.
Dammit ken, I thought you were one of the fallen. O-one of us.
FURTHERMOR'D:
Not to climb up and strap myself onto my cross here, but what made that situation worse is that the whole community took exactly the wrong message from it. The reaction to that at GW at the time was "let's not be like legion lols" when in reality the problem was that the more established community members spontaneously gang-raped the shit out of some arbitrary person for doing something wrong (in this case, over promoting) that a) they didn't know was wrong or why and b) everyone else was fucking doing anyway. Actually as far as I'm concerned I don't think GW ever learned any of the right lessons from that incident but then again, as far as I can tell that site ACTIVELY HATES RPG Making now and is working hard to distance themselves from it. So...in conclusion, whatever.
I don't think harsh criticism or high standards are bad individually but when combined? Nothing is more discouraging, in my opinion. I am openly and unabashedly of the "games are fragile flowers, and must be fed, nurtured, and praised" school. I have seen things said here about games that I would never have said unless I actively and knowingly wanted the game in question to die, to just go away and stop being. This isn't really a counterpoint to your post, it just seemed like a good time to slip it in. (That's what she said?)
qft although obviously I am not Craze and am not working with Karsuman! Rather I wholly agree with the SENTIMENT of this part of Craze's post (except for the bashing of 2k3/other sites). My motivations are the same, I am doing this seriously, I more or less have a gameplan where this ties into my other creative endeavors
(even if it is a little bit like
1. Make video games.
2. Design tabletop RPGs.
3. Write Novels
4. ?????
5. Profit.)
and it is because I take my work (and I do see it as work, even if it is technically a hobby) so seriously that this community so frequently causes me anxiety, stress, and hurt feelings. Often the underlying cause is that I am not as popular/successful as I feel I should be leading to (yes) overwhelming feelings of resentment, oversensitivity, artistic temperament, and seriously over-developed defense mechanisms which ultimately are no good for protecting my feelings but lash out violently at anyone who I perceive as a threat. I don't know HOW exactly this ties in to the larger topic but I think it doesn't NOT tie in.
I really hope 2k3 doesn't get banned. I think that would be horrible. Just because I don't feel like using it anymore doesn't mean it shouldn't be an option for people who do. I think the present system where everyone is free to use 2k3 and I am free to (GENTLY!) make fun of them when they do works fairly well. I hope it doesn't change.
I do not feel that GW was nearly as bad as everyone is saying it was, although there were plenty of times when a negative vibe got out of hand, for instance, the Iron Gaia 2 topic.
Not to climb up and strap myself onto my cross here, but what made that situation worse is that the whole community took exactly the wrong message from it. The reaction to that at GW at the time was "let's not be like legion lols" when in reality the problem was that the more established community members spontaneously gang-raped the shit out of some arbitrary person for doing something wrong (in this case, over promoting) that a) they didn't know was wrong or why and b) everyone else was fucking doing anyway. Actually as far as I'm concerned I don't think GW ever learned any of the right lessons from that incident but then again, as far as I can tell that site ACTIVELY HATES RPG Making now and is working hard to distance themselves from it. So...in conclusion, whatever.
On the topic of criticism... Like uh, I don't believe in pulling punches when giving feedback. I give my criticism based on my honest opinion: "simply put, this sucks." However, while I while be blunt and maybe rip something apart, I do not believe in being harsh without basis. I will not simply rip something apart unless I feel that I am also giving them sound advice at the same time.
I don't think harsh criticism or high standards are bad individually but when combined? Nothing is more discouraging, in my opinion. I am openly and unabashedly of the "games are fragile flowers, and must be fed, nurtured, and praised" school. I have seen things said here about games that I would never have said unless I actively and knowingly wanted the game in question to die, to just go away and stop being. This isn't really a counterpoint to your post, it just seemed like a good time to slip it in. (That's what she said?)
I am here at RMN because I am actively interested in making games seriously. Karsuman and I have a gameplan (pun intended) for several years worth of projects, and we work fairly steadily on developing them. Visions & Voices is one of the most-downloaded games on the site (even if I think 4,000 is quite low compared to what I'd like, we are really just starting to break the ice outside the community, so... yeah), which is (see previous parentheses) a bittersweet accomplishment and motivator. I'm a proponent of that which aids me as a serious developer, and I'm not a huge fan of stupidity (imo: 2k/3, sites like rpgmakervx.net)
qft although obviously I am not Craze and am not working with Karsuman! Rather I wholly agree with the SENTIMENT of this part of Craze's post (except for the bashing of 2k3/other sites). My motivations are the same, I am doing this seriously, I more or less have a gameplan where this ties into my other creative endeavors
(even if it is a little bit like
1. Make video games.
2. Design tabletop RPGs.
3. Write Novels
4. ?????
5. Profit.)
and it is because I take my work (and I do see it as work, even if it is technically a hobby) so seriously that this community so frequently causes me anxiety, stress, and hurt feelings. Often the underlying cause is that I am not as popular/successful as I feel I should be leading to (yes) overwhelming feelings of resentment, oversensitivity, artistic temperament, and seriously over-developed defense mechanisms which ultimately are no good for protecting my feelings but lash out violently at anyone who I perceive as a threat. I don't know HOW exactly this ties in to the larger topic but I think it doesn't NOT tie in.
On a more personal note, I think that eventually, when 2k3 gets banned, it might start a semi GW-ish thing, but I doubt it would effect the site itself so much. We'd lose a lot of members though, or at least part of their support
I really hope 2k3 doesn't get banned. I think that would be horrible. Just because I don't feel like using it anymore doesn't mean it shouldn't be an option for people who do. I think the present system where everyone is free to use 2k3 and I am free to (GENTLY!) make fun of them when they do works fairly well. I hope it doesn't change.
