CULTURE OF CRASS, APATHY AND CYNICISM

This is a downright disgusting atmosphere, and those of you who heap negative criticism on the efforts of indie designers (no matter how humble or, dare I say, feisty they be) should be ashamed of yourselves. If you think that it's arrogant of amateur designers to expect lavished praise in return for a "rehash of cliches" (or whichever five dollar phrase you would employ), consider how much more pathetic it is to consider oneself a community benefactor in exchange for stomping on the hard work of other people, all from behind the shield of relative internet anonymity.

Excerpt from a PM I JUST received from a user, which in turn was an excerpt from a comment he wanted to make on one of my game's reviews but felt reticent to, due to an understandable fear of entering a flamewar and the feeling that he wasn't going to change anyone's minds anyway.

I just think it's fascinating and definitely seems relevant to this topic.

I don't particularly find that bit of out of context information relevant to anything, unless you're suggesting that some reviews are created with the express purpose of stomping on someone's dreams instead of providing any kind of meaningful feedback to creator or player.

I wasn't but here is definitely one less-vocal user who is suggesting exactly that.

Obviously, this person is a pussy.

People can be argumentative here, but usually not stupidly so - and if it does ever get REALLY BAD, action is taken. That is generally how this place has worked and still works and how it will probably work for a long time to come.

Stop acting like a freakin' victim, Max. Just because some guy decided to PM you something because YOU lost your head in the comments of one of your reviews and made ridiculous and untrue claims about our staff, does not mean we hold your statement here with any sort of weight. The only reason people pick on you is because you act like you cannot possibly make something that is seriously flawed. I assure you it is not jealousy about how many games you have made, or creative writing degrees or your inflated sense of self-worth/ego - It is solely because you are overly reactive about any comment pointed towards you, and god forbid it be criticism worth considering!

If the mystery person quoted here happens to be reading this and has any problem with either myself, or any other staff member, I formally invite him or her to speak up and to confront us about it without fear of reprisals. Or any of the rest of you. If you have a problem with the staff members, speak up. We can't solve problems that people don't tell us about.

I am completely serious. The staff should not wield some aura of intimidation that prevents criticism of them.

There are many people who simply do not listen to criticism until you shove it in their face... and also it can add a bit of entertainment and humor to a potentially otherwise dry review. (ALTHOUGH there is a difference between negative criticism and a personal attack)

1. On the otherside there are people who are hypersensitive to criticism and will make changes to their game based on FOOTNOTES in an otherwise overwhelmingly positive review. (Y hello there.)
2. There is a difference between negative criticism and a personal attack and no one seems to agree on where that line is drawn and that is why this is important.

Stop acting like a freakin' victim, Max. Just because some guy decided to PM you something because YOU lost your head in the comments of one of your reviews and made ridiculous and untrue claims about our staff, does not mean we hold your statement here with any sort of weight. The only reason people pick on you is because you act like you cannot possibly make something that is seriously flawed. I assure you it is not jealousy about how many games you have made, or creative writing degrees or your inflated sense of self-worth/ego - It is solely because you are overly reactive about any comment pointed towards you, and god forbid it be criticism worth considering!

Karsuman:
You don't like me and as is so often the case I've never done anything to you personally to cause that.

You are staff.

You won't listen to reason and are quick to hurl abuse and flames but this site does not support freedom of speech so I can't just tell you to go fuck yourself becase you are staff and hence have special priviledges like not having to follow the rules or even be civil.

This means I have no idea what to say when you go after me as you seem to do with ever increasing frequency. I repeatedly turn the other cheek because I enjoy the services and community that RMN provides but you can't just expect me to be your punching bag forever.

It is just interesting that an obviously unbiased stranger that neither myself nor anyone else had even heard of before PMed me to tell me it was EXACTLY that. More to the point, why should I not be mentioning a situation where people were dicks in the thread that is about the community trying to be less of a dick as a whole? Because I thought that was EXACTLY what this thread was for. And in my opinion, that incident was part of the problem. If picking on people because they BELIEVE IN THEIR ABILITIES is not part of the problem, what the hell is? Is that this community's root problem, the thing we have to go after, overconfidence? I would certainly think that caustic, cynical attacks on the creative outlet of others would be a more important problem to fix.

Because I don't think people believing in their abilities is the problem with this community. I have not once claimed to be perfect and my entire argument boiled down to that it is possible to be critical without being nasty and hurtful. Or to bring us 'round once again to how completely on topic this is...it is possible to give valid and helpful critique without being crass. For an example of this, please read any of my reviews that were accepted to RMN.

Or any of the rest of you. If you have a problem with the staff members, speak up. We can't solve problems that people don't tell us about.

I had a problem with some staff members, spoke up, and was brutally shouted down by a lot of nasty, vicious flames which ended in the site owner who I greatly respect telling me to "crawl back in my fucking hole" or something to that effect for my efforts. And all that was done not to some out-of-line spam-crazy noob but to a FORMER STAFF MEMBER expressing their opinion. So I'm sorry, Solitayre, but RMN isn't nearly as receptive to criticism as you think it is. RMN as a whole, in fact, has a bigger problem with taking criticism than any of its individual users.

That little incident basically discouraged me from ever voicing displeasure with my treatment here or with policy here again. In fact, I don't know what kind of ass backwards masochism it was that this incident triggered my RETURN to RMN from a long absence. I guess it is the constant desire to prove every negative thing about me wrong in one fell swoop. If people say I can't take criticism I will incorporate that criticism into making better and better games. And that is what I have been doing and will continue to do.

But here we go. I am speaking up again. Like you said. Let me be totally honest, though, I am already cringing in anticipation of the backlash.

I am completely serious. The staff should not wield some aura of intimidation that prevents criticism of them.

It is less intimidation than him not wanting to get into a pointless shitfight and now I feel kind of bad about putting him at the center of one. And by kind of bad, I mean actually really terrible. All I was trying to do was mention something that I thought was relevant to this thread.

No, Karsuman, while I understand you are being sarcastic, let me explain. I am not saying that everyone else is at fault except me. I am not speculating on whether or not I am at fault. I am acknowledging the OBVIOUS fact that 99% of people aren't even involved. And I'm saying that of the people involved, a handful of them besides me ARE at fault, including you. Please don't twist my words.

If I wanted to I could spell out who I felt was at fault, not at fault, or totally uninvolved on a case by case basis but playing the blame game is just a gigantic waste of time. If my post needs some kind of disclaimer, something to the effect of "I know my actions are not always perfect", consider it to be there by default as I am a normal human being.

Edit: You know what...this is probably wishful thinking...but is there any chance this can just be the last word. It is a fairly humble note, right, admitting that the assumption that I'm not perfect is appended to every post I make. But is there any chance we can just put the genie back in the bottle here and let the thread take its natural course? I'm sure that can't happen because if I were to have the last say the entire world would freeze over, but in a perfect world I just wish we could put the lid back on the box.

Personally, I've always felt overconfidence was a huge problem.

Well congratulations, Silviera, you are not alone.

80% of RMN and the entirety of the GW of yore is in agreement with you.

Whether they know it or not.

What worries me is that so many people care more about crushing overconfident creators than nurturing (gifted) creators. (I use the parentheses because we could very well say nurturing creators, period.) Can we find out what would be latin for "Punish pretension first, award innovation second"? Because that should be the maxim for not just RMN but the entire RPG Maker community.

If you think some review is unfairly harsh all you have to do is direct it to the staff.

I did this...I did NOT really think anyone had a crazy vendetta. Just that some staff members had gone a little too far while trying to give constructive crtiique and produced something that was obviously hurtful and unhelpful unintentionally. The result of me attempting to bring this to the staff's attention was, to quote myself:

brutally shouted down by a lot of nasty, vicious flames which ended in the site owner who I greatly respect telling me to "crawl back in my fucking hole" or something to that effect for my efforts.

Which I guess one could callously argue was the majority, speaking. And I am basically over it at this point, only interested in using it as a lesson that we can move forward from to improve the atmosphere of the community so it does not evoke disgust in total strangers and neutral observers. I must say, knockwood, that I am pleased that everyone has remained reasonably civil for a little while, but I still would just like to hit the eject button on my soapbox and let this go, having thoroughly, thoroughly said my piece, probably ad nauseum.

Well I'm glad you're being honest.

Contrary to what I GUESS is popular belief I am one of the least venomous people here which maybe doesn't so much absolve me as say something about HERE. Still, I don't get it and never will. I wouldn't treat someone with the scorn you reserve for me unless they had done something concrete and measurable to offend me personally; an attack, not just an attitude I didn't like. You are not my dad and it is not your job to be hard on me because you don't like my attitude. That kind of abusive condescending BS will only make me more grounded in my beliefs; more thin-skinned and defensive, if you like.

Because guess what, you are not the final unbiased judge of a good attitude if only BECAUSE you are admittedly a dick to people not because they went after you but just because you don't like their attitude!

Re: My Ego.
Yes, yes, I have one. I am also one of the single most insecure people on the entire freaking planet. And when people constantly go after the first thing (the ego, which I don't think is ENTIRELY baseless) it tends to set off the second thing (the insecurity) really, really hard. I'm not a psychologist and the way I work completely bamboozles me as often as not but this is something I have figured out.

Re: My Attitude.
FOR THE RECORD I feel the community as a whole has been INCREDIBLY good to me. Looking at my reviews, my downloads, my comments I feel nothing short of blessed and have already done things to give back and will continue to.

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1. On the otherside there are people who are hypersensitive to criticism and will make changes to their game based on FOOTNOTES in an otherwise overwhelmingly positive review. (Y hello there.)

Not necessarily a bad thing, by the way.

Although I do agree that RMN is not exactly great at accepting criticism although it is kind of a mix.

edit: huh i posted this really late and you guys made like 8 posts i forgot to hit submit