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COLLABORATIVE PROJECTS
Posts
Solitayre
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CloseIn this thread there was some discussion on the nature of collaborative projects and the best way to go about them. I felt that this topic of conversation was very interesting and useful, and so, so as not to hijack Max's thread, I have made a new topic specifically to discuss this idea. Collaborative projects have been bandied about as a possible way to produce higher quality game projects, and I feel the idea has merit.
What are your thoughts on collaborative projects? Would you ever collaborate with anyone? Why or why not?And those of you who have collaborated, I'd ask you to share some of your experiences. What do you think the pros and cons are? What kinds of teams do you think work best? Just discuss the idea, consider this an open forum on the idea.
What are your thoughts on collaborative projects? Would you ever collaborate with anyone? Why or why not?And those of you who have collaborated, I'd ask you to share some of your experiences. What do you think the pros and cons are? What kinds of teams do you think work best? Just discuss the idea, consider this an open forum on the idea.
I've thought about this lately too, and I'm interested to see where this topic will go. This first post of mine won't probably contribute a lot to it, as I've been staying up really late again and I haven't thought much of what I should input, but here I go anyway.
I'm not sure of how well I can personally work in a team, as I've faced some big mistakes with my first team projects, where everything haven't gone quite all that well as it was originally planned. (read: huge delays on release, etc)
Still there's a lots of benefits of working in a team of course, when the team consists of people where everyone gets to do what they're good at and what they enjoy the most. (After all, none of us get paid.)
I think task management has important role however, and I can't really speak for it myself, as I have no greater experience in it, and it is the field I do most of my mistakes on, too.
It's important to pay extra attention to who's given a what task, and how long it takes them to get it done. Also, give people work they're specialized in. And by that I mean the stuff they've got most experience with. (That would be graphics for me, for example.)
I'm saying this because it is a good way to ensure your team members' motivation. Everyone is more likely to work on something they enjoy, and they are going to do it faster if they have done it a lot before. They know the tricks, and they won't create delays by experimenting and learning things they already should know for the given task. Though, of course we're all always subjects to learning new things and improving ourselves, but this is where the "standards" step in. Everyone has to be 100% capable to match the standards they're set to match for the particular project. If they do not, there is going to be uncertainty and it can be risky for the project - and more likely have it end up in floppy results.
So, the way to ensure you'll get good results, and within the given time limit, you need to ensure your team member is very confident with the task given to him. (ie. Ill Will is getting delayed mostly because I'm no real pro with writing, and there is so much I can still improve on while I'm processing my own writing, where with graphics I can improve too, but I usually have no problem to match on the given standards for the project, because I have so much more experience with it from before.)
At this point I'm not even going to try to write any sort of summary of my opinion about this whole subject and whatnot, but I'm just saying that I'm totally for encouraging more different sort of collaborative projects and the like here on RMN. I don't know about the rest of you, but working in a team isn't something I have much experience of, but seeing we're all creating games (which is tremendous work load), getting that experience should help us all a lot achieving the goals we usually set for our games.
I'll write here something in more coherent and sensible manner when I've collected my thoughts for the subject and I haven't been up for 24 hours.
I'm not sure of how well I can personally work in a team, as I've faced some big mistakes with my first team projects, where everything haven't gone quite all that well as it was originally planned. (read: huge delays on release, etc)
Still there's a lots of benefits of working in a team of course, when the team consists of people where everyone gets to do what they're good at and what they enjoy the most. (After all, none of us get paid.)
I think task management has important role however, and I can't really speak for it myself, as I have no greater experience in it, and it is the field I do most of my mistakes on, too.
It's important to pay extra attention to who's given a what task, and how long it takes them to get it done. Also, give people work they're specialized in. And by that I mean the stuff they've got most experience with. (That would be graphics for me, for example.)
I'm saying this because it is a good way to ensure your team members' motivation. Everyone is more likely to work on something they enjoy, and they are going to do it faster if they have done it a lot before. They know the tricks, and they won't create delays by experimenting and learning things they already should know for the given task. Though, of course we're all always subjects to learning new things and improving ourselves, but this is where the "standards" step in. Everyone has to be 100% capable to match the standards they're set to match for the particular project. If they do not, there is going to be uncertainty and it can be risky for the project - and more likely have it end up in floppy results.
So, the way to ensure you'll get good results, and within the given time limit, you need to ensure your team member is very confident with the task given to him. (ie. Ill Will is getting delayed mostly because I'm no real pro with writing, and there is so much I can still improve on while I'm processing my own writing, where with graphics I can improve too, but I usually have no problem to match on the given standards for the project, because I have so much more experience with it from before.)
At this point I'm not even going to try to write any sort of summary of my opinion about this whole subject and whatnot, but I'm just saying that I'm totally for encouraging more different sort of collaborative projects and the like here on RMN. I don't know about the rest of you, but working in a team isn't something I have much experience of, but seeing we're all creating games (which is tremendous work load), getting that experience should help us all a lot achieving the goals we usually set for our games.
I'll write here something in more coherent and sensible manner when I've collected my thoughts for the subject and I haven't been up for 24 hours.
Manifesto
33
One of my biggest goals in my "RM life" was to collab with someone.
I always liked the sound of collab. games such as Namco x Capcom
I always liked the sound of collab. games such as Namco x Capcom
Nightblade
2723
For some reason, whenever I ask someone to do something for me they drop off the face of the earth. I haven't had much luck with this sort of thing.
I'll be the first to say that I greatly enjoyed working on Ill Will during the initial Game Chill timeframe. It was great fun, tossing ideas back and forth during the conceptualization phase.
I'll address the pros of collaborating first.
Yes, I used an example image.
The above smexy mapping along with Nessiah's excellent portraits, I'm certain, generated 99% of the interest in Ill Will. No one cares for the numbers, and if I did my job right they won't notice the work that went into them.
Now, as for what I did: I made the core of the game (the mechanics especially), layed out the basics of the narrative, and balanced the gameplay from the ground up. Rei, as he said above, is the graphics and polish guy - he helped fill in the details of the plot, created the dialogue, and handledoverlays atmospheric mapping. Ness spent most of her time on the portraits.
Now, what's immediately noticeable about the workload? It's divided amongst several people. That means each portion takes less time to complete (lol Ill Will "less time", see below), which means a faster production time. You can also focus on your forté - my and my numbers, Rei and his maps, Ness and her art - and create a product with quality in all of its aspects, as opposed to a single facet that you happen to excel in. (Spreadsheet pun totally intended.)
Now, the pit falls. The "Ill Will'll be out in 2050 OLOLOLLOLOL" part (yeah, shut up ALL OF IRC). The most obvious concern is inconsistancy in the team's work ethic. Most often, this means one or more members cease to care and drop from the project; but in our case we have a member that cares too much. Hopefully this has just been sorted out, but it's only taken five times longer than the initial planned devtime. Which brings me to my last point: planning is fucking everything in a collab.
In all honesty, had we spent the first five or so days planning, as opposed to just the first five hours or so, we would've been done months ago. Every delay has resulted from bad communication, lack of proper planning, and poor interpretations. Changes were made without involving the other teammates, bugs went unreported for long stretches of time, and additions were dreamed up without consulting other portions of the project. It's getting there, but fuck me if it hasn't been a hell of a ride getting to this point.
My next projects are -not- meant to be collaborative. Why not? Well, I want a greater degree of control over these projects that collaboration would allow. You see, by inviting someone to work with you, you agree to accept their vision of your vision into your project. You're agreeing not to either coddle them or flog them in terms of pressure, and you're agreeing to respect the fact that they prefer a certain type of project as much as you have your own preferences. Ill Will isn't quite helped in that regard - I prefer fast-paced gameplay with minimalist storytelling, preferably in short, powerful bursts; Rei likes slower, more atmospheric experiences with a more involved and detailed plots. How will this affect the final product? Time will tell.
TL;DR:
- Focus on your strengths and avoid overlap.
- Plan the -shit- out of your collab.
- Have a clear hierarchy of command, even if that hierarchy involves a flat plane (such as with Team Cascade's case).
I'll address the pros of collaborating first.
Yes, I used an example image.
The above smexy mapping along with Nessiah's excellent portraits, I'm certain, generated 99% of the interest in Ill Will. No one cares for the numbers, and if I did my job right they won't notice the work that went into them.
Now, as for what I did: I made the core of the game (the mechanics especially), layed out the basics of the narrative, and balanced the gameplay from the ground up. Rei, as he said above, is the graphics and polish guy - he helped fill in the details of the plot, created the dialogue, and handled
Now, what's immediately noticeable about the workload? It's divided amongst several people. That means each portion takes less time to complete (lol Ill Will "less time", see below), which means a faster production time. You can also focus on your forté - my and my numbers, Rei and his maps, Ness and her art - and create a product with quality in all of its aspects, as opposed to a single facet that you happen to excel in. (Spreadsheet pun totally intended.)
Now, the pit falls. The "Ill Will'll be out in 2050 OLOLOLLOLOL" part (yeah, shut up ALL OF IRC). The most obvious concern is inconsistancy in the team's work ethic. Most often, this means one or more members cease to care and drop from the project; but in our case we have a member that cares too much. Hopefully this has just been sorted out, but it's only taken five times longer than the initial planned devtime. Which brings me to my last point: planning is fucking everything in a collab.
In all honesty, had we spent the first five or so days planning, as opposed to just the first five hours or so, we would've been done months ago. Every delay has resulted from bad communication, lack of proper planning, and poor interpretations. Changes were made without involving the other teammates, bugs went unreported for long stretches of time, and additions were dreamed up without consulting other portions of the project. It's getting there, but fuck me if it hasn't been a hell of a ride getting to this point.
My next projects are -not- meant to be collaborative. Why not? Well, I want a greater degree of control over these projects that collaboration would allow. You see, by inviting someone to work with you, you agree to accept their vision of your vision into your project. You're agreeing not to either coddle them or flog them in terms of pressure, and you're agreeing to respect the fact that they prefer a certain type of project as much as you have your own preferences. Ill Will isn't quite helped in that regard - I prefer fast-paced gameplay with minimalist storytelling, preferably in short, powerful bursts; Rei likes slower, more atmospheric experiences with a more involved and detailed plots. How will this affect the final product? Time will tell.
TL;DR:
- Focus on your strengths and avoid overlap.
- Plan the -shit- out of your collab.
- Have a clear hierarchy of command, even if that hierarchy involves a flat plane (such as with Team Cascade's case).
Hm...My collaboration projects are mostly, Advent Cirno, Critical Hit and...Seraphim Project. It didn't bode too well. The only successful collab I had was with Lucidrine's Valthirian Arc. Then there's the "collabs" with Skie's and Ocean's games, and it was more of helping kind rather than a real collab. The other "almost" one is Night of Marian.
Allow me to say what are the pitfalls and pros of collaborating with other people 'w')/
They say that collaborations fall mostly because of disinterest within the group. The cause of the fall of my collaboration projects was mostly of "Too much interest" within the group. I had a programmer that wanted something out of the ordinary/stellar (which I'm so into) and me as an artist. The problem is, my programmer, if I think correctly, thinks that I can achieve most of the graphical demands needed for the game. The project is a mix of both our visions that flows in perfect harmony. The problem is, it was killed. Why? The demands and over ambitiousness. Advent Cirno was a turn based battle system in my plan, then my programmer said to make it Real time, which I got suckered into and it remained undone because I lost interest at how I couldn't fully control the game anymore and had to depend on him.
I hated the feeling of losing control and I decided to put it on hiatus once I got over being pissed off. Also, hardcore Touhou fans :|
Seraphim Project was mostly dead due to college. :P
As for Valthirian Arc, the reason why it worked so well was because the workload was shared together within the 3 man team. I did the character design and art and a whole lot of other things, Fandrey handled the music, concept and programming, then Azrael handled the spriting and GUI interface. The good thing is that we're a band of artists as well, so we can easily throw ideas at each other, suggest things with each other, and do a lot of hilarious things. It might've taken a while to get done, but at least it got done.
The difference between Advent Cirno and Valthirian Arc is that, I have a programmer who can't understand the "lingo" I'm using, he also doesn't like to work with place holders and thinks I can whip out graphics in a span of days like ...like I'm just dropping them or something. In Valthirian Arc, I wasn't the only artist, there were a lot of us and we use Placeholders! With these placeholders, I follow the rules of size restriction and so forth, so does Azrael. Once we decided on the layout, we can easily work with it and just put it in the game. This wasn't the case with Advent Cirno, a lot of plans were getting changed.
Then, Night of Marian. I cannot stress how much I hated collaborative games after the event with Marian. The thing is, the problem with collaborative project with "close" friends is that they force their vision in your game. Most of the time this isn't the problem, but to the point that it's forcing and to change the gameplay plans I have for it, despite having the system done and all the programmer has to do was the "SPRITE DISPLAY," he keeps pressing on to change and change and change and change. One of this was turning the CTB to a FFXIII spinoff. This doesn't bode well, it means I'm going to lose control over the project, AGAIN, since I have no idea how to handle the AI and stuff. Another thing is, programmer's pride, I showed him YF's script and if he could help me in lunatic mode and I got loads of bullshit. This isn't a good thing, and finally, after much persuation from Chaos, Karsuman and YF, I decided to drop him. And it was for the good I believe, at least I can work on Marian on my own pace, not hating my own project because of petty things and so forth.
But, there is another thing, even tho the project is working smoothly, if the project leader is an unreasonable tyrant, it won't work. Me, Jaj and K are all artists. Me and Jaj are both learning RGSS and successfully edited RPGMAKER VX's GUI and all that. In fact, I managed to recruit Racheal to help us with little edits for the game since we're not really experienced with it. In fact, the game was going AMAZINGLY. But why did it fail? Well the fact is that our leader (K) has a bad case of mood swing and think the game hasn't been released on X DAY! That's it the game is cancelled. In fact, he lost interest so fast that he finds reasons to cancel the game it wasn't funny. It failed, but the game has been transferred to Jaj. I'm not sure how it's going right now but I definitely don't want to work on a collab project anymore.
All in all, I think it really depends on who you are working with. But my gosh, why do I keep getting suckered in collaboration projects =_=
Allow me to say what are the pitfalls and pros of collaborating with other people 'w')/
They say that collaborations fall mostly because of disinterest within the group. The cause of the fall of my collaboration projects was mostly of "Too much interest" within the group. I had a programmer that wanted something out of the ordinary/stellar (which I'm so into) and me as an artist. The problem is, my programmer, if I think correctly, thinks that I can achieve most of the graphical demands needed for the game. The project is a mix of both our visions that flows in perfect harmony. The problem is, it was killed. Why? The demands and over ambitiousness. Advent Cirno was a turn based battle system in my plan, then my programmer said to make it Real time, which I got suckered into and it remained undone because I lost interest at how I couldn't fully control the game anymore and had to depend on him.
I hated the feeling of losing control and I decided to put it on hiatus once I got over being pissed off. Also, hardcore Touhou fans :|
Seraphim Project was mostly dead due to college. :P
As for Valthirian Arc, the reason why it worked so well was because the workload was shared together within the 3 man team. I did the character design and art and a whole lot of other things, Fandrey handled the music, concept and programming, then Azrael handled the spriting and GUI interface. The good thing is that we're a band of artists as well, so we can easily throw ideas at each other, suggest things with each other, and do a lot of hilarious things. It might've taken a while to get done, but at least it got done.
The difference between Advent Cirno and Valthirian Arc is that, I have a programmer who can't understand the "lingo" I'm using, he also doesn't like to work with place holders and thinks I can whip out graphics in a span of days like ...like I'm just dropping them or something. In Valthirian Arc, I wasn't the only artist, there were a lot of us and we use Placeholders! With these placeholders, I follow the rules of size restriction and so forth, so does Azrael. Once we decided on the layout, we can easily work with it and just put it in the game. This wasn't the case with Advent Cirno, a lot of plans were getting changed.
Then, Night of Marian. I cannot stress how much I hated collaborative games after the event with Marian. The thing is, the problem with collaborative project with "close" friends is that they force their vision in your game. Most of the time this isn't the problem, but to the point that it's forcing and to change the gameplay plans I have for it, despite having the system done and all the programmer has to do was the "SPRITE DISPLAY," he keeps pressing on to change and change and change and change. One of this was turning the CTB to a FFXIII spinoff. This doesn't bode well, it means I'm going to lose control over the project, AGAIN, since I have no idea how to handle the AI and stuff. Another thing is, programmer's pride, I showed him YF's script and if he could help me in lunatic mode and I got loads of bullshit. This isn't a good thing, and finally, after much persuation from Chaos, Karsuman and YF, I decided to drop him. And it was for the good I believe, at least I can work on Marian on my own pace, not hating my own project because of petty things and so forth.
But, there is another thing, even tho the project is working smoothly, if the project leader is an unreasonable tyrant, it won't work. Me, Jaj and K are all artists. Me and Jaj are both learning RGSS and successfully edited RPGMAKER VX's GUI and all that. In fact, I managed to recruit Racheal to help us with little edits for the game since we're not really experienced with it. In fact, the game was going AMAZINGLY. But why did it fail? Well the fact is that our leader (K) has a bad case of mood swing and think the game hasn't been released on X DAY! That's it the game is cancelled. In fact, he lost interest so fast that he finds reasons to cancel the game it wasn't funny. It failed, but the game has been transferred to Jaj. I'm not sure how it's going right now but I definitely don't want to work on a collab project anymore.
All in all, I think it really depends on who you are working with. But my gosh, why do I keep getting suckered in collaboration projects =_=
Dang Ness. You need to have a team who is united, otherwise projects will just not work.
I remember reading an article covering exactly why bad games are made in the commercial industry. It's not just a factor of time and money, but also your team and executive opinions. If you have a crappy team, projects tend to fail.
That's kind of why I prefer working on projects alone, and only asking for help from people with better talents without giving them any control over the project itself. For indie-games, at least, the problems that come with collaborating does nothing but hinder progress.
I remember reading an article covering exactly why bad games are made in the commercial industry. It's not just a factor of time and money, but also your team and executive opinions. If you have a crappy team, projects tend to fail.
That's kind of why I prefer working on projects alone, and only asking for help from people with better talents without giving them any control over the project itself. For indie-games, at least, the problems that come with collaborating does nothing but hinder progress.
The funny thing is, for AC and Seraph, there's only 2-3 of us. Critical hit was amazing though, I can't believe a project leader would feel down now that his game is making progress :U
Drakonais
2787
I've done some database work for Rei, although I wouldn't say I "collaborated" on Ascendence since it was such a small part of what is shaping up to be an epic project. In his case, I was impressed by what he had done so far and I was willing to pitch in to help along the final product. Rei would've been able to continue with or without my help though. I feel like dependency can often stall a project indefinitely, so unless members have proven to be committed, it's best to have a lead designer and incorporate submissions as they are offered.
post=128120
TL;DR:- Focus on your strengths and avoid overlap.
- Plan the -shit- out of your collab.
- Have a clear hierarchy of command, even if that hierarchy involves a flat plane (such as with Team Cascade's case).
LISTEN TO THIS MAN- HE KNOWS WHAT HE IS SAYING
I like the things I read in this topic.
But I tend to prefer making a game alone, just so I can be prouder of my baby when it's born.
I would be part of a collaboration, though, given the circumstances.
But I tend to prefer making a game alone, just so I can be prouder of my baby when it's born.
I would be part of a collaboration, though, given the circumstances.
To tack onto chaos' tl;dr, Karsuman and I spent at least three days just sitting down and plotting out Visions & Voices. And guess what? We finished it in three weeks. ...then we went back and made it better, but it was less than two months of planning/design/development time total.
Due to ridiculous schedule stuff, Karsu and I have been verrrry slow with Arian Wild recently. We still have a good chunk of it done, however (re: the entire battle system, a few dungeons worth of maps, character sketches, most of the plot outlined...) so it won't be difficult to get back into the groove of things over the next few weeks.
Due to ridiculous schedule stuff, Karsu and I have been verrrry slow with Arian Wild recently. We still have a good chunk of it done, however (re: the entire battle system, a few dungeons worth of maps, character sketches, most of the plot outlined...) so it won't be difficult to get back into the groove of things over the next few weeks.
I once had a guy wanting to do custom sprite work for Hero's Realm, but then he stopped.
Ohhaicraze!
Ohhaicraze!
That wasn't collaborative. That was me attempting to do something I could never finish or do well enough, and you thinking it was a nice thought.
Fractal Advocate
1252
I love the idea of collaboration. I have a lot more energy working on something with someone than working on it alone, but the one time I tried it, it ended up falling through.
Also, everyone seems to be a little wary of collaborating, possibly because of the high chances of things falling through.
I actually feel like if people do a project with other people it's *more* likely to get completed, but if you stop a project because you aren't liking where it's going/you don't have the time/etc, particularly in the early stages, usually no one else knows about it. And thus it doesn't really affect anyone but you.
Also, everyone seems to be a little wary of collaborating, possibly because of the high chances of things falling through.
I actually feel like if people do a project with other people it's *more* likely to get completed, but if you stop a project because you aren't liking where it's going/you don't have the time/etc, particularly in the early stages, usually no one else knows about it. And thus it doesn't really affect anyone but you.
Skie Fortress
2394
Collaborations are a nice thought, but they tend to fail a lot. I've been on a bunch of 'team projects', nearly all of them failed. My biggest pet peeve with collaborations is 'The tyrannical team leader'. You know, that one person whose vision must be absolutely perfect, whose project was their's to start with sure, and who gives out orders and demands changes on every little pixel because it's not what they imagined.
It's this one person that ruins team projects. More than likely, they have bad leadership skills, organization skills, and a bad attitude to go along with it. The other members of the team will likely band together behind their back and leave over time once their patience runs thin. Thus leaving the leader alone to wither away with what's left of the project. The only thing that a member comes away from this is probably just some stronger ties to the other's who left. But nothing came to light in the end. Which is a waste of time.
I've seen this one scenario happen a whole lot. It's irritating to see every time it rears it's ugly head.
It's this one person that ruins team projects. More than likely, they have bad leadership skills, organization skills, and a bad attitude to go along with it. The other members of the team will likely band together behind their back and leave over time once their patience runs thin. Thus leaving the leader alone to wither away with what's left of the project. The only thing that a member comes away from this is probably just some stronger ties to the other's who left. But nothing came to light in the end. Which is a waste of time.
I've seen this one scenario happen a whole lot. It's irritating to see every time it rears it's ugly head.
post=128118
For some reason, whenever I ask someone to do something for me they drop off the face of the earth. I haven't had much luck with this sort of thing.
Just by law of averages (I think I am using that term right) I have managed to get lucky a few times in this regard by sheer volume of trying (thanks Clest, Despain, DE, Ryan Hall, Cheshire_Cat wherever the hell you are and anyone else I am forgetting) but by and large I have this problem as well.
If anyone cares I might post the long list of people I would LOVE to collaborate with in any way, shape or form. There really are a lot of you guys I'd like to work with in any capacity although I seriously doubt it will happen in all but a few cases. Anaryu is probably at the top of my list, because...holy crap, have you SEEN his games?
Oh, and Ocean's Dream. He made a FULL SET of sprites for a game I never wound up finishing (SO FAR). I feel REALLY bad about that to this day, Ocean.
Eh, don't worry about it. And at least I could say "Hey I didn't only work on bright happy stuff!".
With me, my projects have either been full solo, or some assistance here and there. I've never had a team member to collaborate with for a whole project. The extent of it is probably something like getting 1-3 songs, a sprite, some ideas.
Part of the reason is that I'm just not very social. I don't know many people, nor do I really know what skills other people have for the most part. The other reason is that I like to take control of my project, not so much in the sense of MY VISION (I really don't mind if it's altered at all), but in commitment wise. I like to finish my projects and make progress in them. I don't want to wait for something, then find out I'm not gonna get it because of some reason and then waste all that time which I could have been working on it myself.
I try to work on most aspects of the game myself. I'm not skilled in all areas but what I like to do most is probably gameplay planning. I hope I can make a game fun to play, and it's pretty fun writing down ideas and stuff on paper. Story is the thing that gets me, so if there's anything that I'd like to collab with, it's having someone help me with the story/dialogue. Everything else I don't mind doing myself. It also seems like it'd be hard to find someone who can write a light hearted story but have it be good and interesting too.
Having worked on a bunch of other teams as a spriter of some sort, I find it annoying when people treat me like a resource, especially when I'm not getting paid for it. Nagging me when it hasn't been long since I submitted something, constantly asking me to change things, asking one request and then continually piling on more, Not explaining what you want and then being upset when what I do isn't what they want. So now I usually do small paid requests, or I do work for my friends.
With me, my projects have either been full solo, or some assistance here and there. I've never had a team member to collaborate with for a whole project. The extent of it is probably something like getting 1-3 songs, a sprite, some ideas.
Part of the reason is that I'm just not very social. I don't know many people, nor do I really know what skills other people have for the most part. The other reason is that I like to take control of my project, not so much in the sense of MY VISION (I really don't mind if it's altered at all), but in commitment wise. I like to finish my projects and make progress in them. I don't want to wait for something, then find out I'm not gonna get it because of some reason and then waste all that time which I could have been working on it myself.
I try to work on most aspects of the game myself. I'm not skilled in all areas but what I like to do most is probably gameplay planning. I hope I can make a game fun to play, and it's pretty fun writing down ideas and stuff on paper. Story is the thing that gets me, so if there's anything that I'd like to collab with, it's having someone help me with the story/dialogue. Everything else I don't mind doing myself. It also seems like it'd be hard to find someone who can write a light hearted story but have it be good and interesting too.
Having worked on a bunch of other teams as a spriter of some sort, I find it annoying when people treat me like a resource, especially when I'm not getting paid for it. Nagging me when it hasn't been long since I submitted something, constantly asking me to change things, asking one request and then continually piling on more, Not explaining what you want and then being upset when what I do isn't what they want. So now I usually do small paid requests, or I do work for my friends.
Aten
1570
post=128163
But I tend to prefer making a game alone, just so I can be prouder of my baby when it's born.
I would be part of a collaboration, though, given the circumstances.
This for me. The most "collaboration" I have done is get spriters to do stuff for me, (which is basically Ocean) or artists to make portraits (Which is Nessiah). In turn, I help whoever asks help of me. For eg, I made the CMS for Night of Marian, and I started doing the CMS for FimbulWinter but the guy disappeared no sooner did I start.
Pasty
908
I collaborate because I can't do everything myself! I can't say what 'usually' happens for me, because I've been on roughly the same collaboration for three years. In this instance, I program, write, and put out the plan, and music, sound, and graphics are handled by someone who is not me, because I am awful at all three (though I am getting pretty good at editing tiles lately!) I can trade work, but since I've been pushing to get this game out, the 'collaboration' aspect has been glued together by a budget (which is almost exhausted at this point).
I'm surprised that Ocean and Couch have put up with the astronomical delays that this project has seen; I know I've wanted to quit several times; when I get frustrated with some thing that isn't working the way it's supposed to, I get an urge to dump it all or change things (again), and somehow I resist. If you're part of a team that's dedicated (you don't need to work ALL THE TIME, just when working really counts) and easy-going, you'll go far as a group!
Also, it helps if everyone can do what's necessary to complete a game. Specialization helps a lot.
I can say this: if you're any kind of reasonable human being, the notion of being a slave to your 'perfect vision' at the expense of the rest of your team is absolutely absurd. I cannot fathom someone who would be such a giant dick to someone who is working with them. It erodes any remaining good will the team shares quickly!
Lastly, a tip: I know this place is warm and fuzzy and friendly (generally, if you do a collab, and it's with someone who's been on either here or GW for a few years, it'll get done), but it's still on the internet. Vet your team members. Make sure they are who they say they are and that they're honest. Asking for a resume, a portfolio, and a letter of recommendation didn't stop me from losing almost $2K in budget from someone who couldn't do the work and wouldn't refund the advance.
:(
(i know this is not me but it still makes me sad i hate people who do this without at least being sort of apologetic)
I'm surprised that Ocean and Couch have put up with the astronomical delays that this project has seen; I know I've wanted to quit several times; when I get frustrated with some thing that isn't working the way it's supposed to, I get an urge to dump it all or change things (again), and somehow I resist. If you're part of a team that's dedicated (you don't need to work ALL THE TIME, just when working really counts) and easy-going, you'll go far as a group!
Also, it helps if everyone can do what's necessary to complete a game. Specialization helps a lot.
I can say this: if you're any kind of reasonable human being, the notion of being a slave to your 'perfect vision' at the expense of the rest of your team is absolutely absurd. I cannot fathom someone who would be such a giant dick to someone who is working with them. It erodes any remaining good will the team shares quickly!
Lastly, a tip: I know this place is warm and fuzzy and friendly (generally, if you do a collab, and it's with someone who's been on either here or GW for a few years, it'll get done), but it's still on the internet. Vet your team members. Make sure they are who they say they are and that they're honest. Asking for a resume, a portfolio, and a letter of recommendation didn't stop me from losing almost $2K in budget from someone who couldn't do the work and wouldn't refund the advance.
post=128310
asking one request and then continually piling on more
:(
(i know this is not me but it still makes me sad i hate people who do this without at least being sort of apologetic)
