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GAME DESIGN IDEA-A SAGA FRONTIER-ESQUE GAME THAT ISN'T SHIT.
Posts
Yeaster
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Yeaster
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CloseSaGa Frontier had so much potential. I'd love to play a game that borrows from its basic idea, but actually make it good.
Another topic!
How are you going to handle exploration? From my (limited) experience, Romancing Saga is more about a menu-based world map: You have a set of destinations you can choose from the map which you build by talking to people, getting quests, and getting rides on boats. For exploration RPGs, I prefered the Ultima way where it is just a giant world map with few natural boundaries to control where the player can go. This has its own issues compared to the menu-based maps like increased development time, the world map can become boring and slow and devoid of content, and difficulty progression is more difficult.
What's your thoughts on how to handle the world map in an exploration-based game?
How are you going to handle exploration? From my (limited) experience, Romancing Saga is more about a menu-based world map: You have a set of destinations you can choose from the map which you build by talking to people, getting quests, and getting rides on boats. For exploration RPGs, I prefered the Ultima way where it is just a giant world map with few natural boundaries to control where the player can go. This has its own issues compared to the menu-based maps like increased development time, the world map can become boring and slow and devoid of content, and difficulty progression is more difficult.
What's your thoughts on how to handle the world map in an exploration-based game?
ultima > *
just pointing this out
(I really really liked just running in to various events and to me this is one of an open world's main highlights.)
just pointing this out
(I really really liked just running in to various events and to me this is one of an open world's main highlights.)
I don't know. I think I was going to make it more like Saga Frontier, where each region is very distinct, yet has a port that connects to other regions. Not to mention that Saga Frontier had hidden regions, regions that you can only get to from other regions, character specific regions, and all that stuff. Romancing Saga was kinda of a pain in the ass in that regard because most of the regions looked the same, and it took a shitload of time to get from one place to another, especially if they were far apart.
Saga Frontier did it differently because all of the regions were VERY different from another; i.e. the difference between say, Koorong and Shingrow. However, this is explained by all of the regions actually being in separate 'bubbles' or 'planes' (yes, I'm not making this up). I liked that wacky variation in regions in Saga Frontier because it allowed for all kinds of people, storylines and settings to flourish in the same game, and I want to go for something similar myself.
Saga Frontier did it differently because all of the regions were VERY different from another; i.e. the difference between say, Koorong and Shingrow. However, this is explained by all of the regions actually being in separate 'bubbles' or 'planes' (yes, I'm not making this up). I liked that wacky variation in regions in Saga Frontier because it allowed for all kinds of people, storylines and settings to flourish in the same game, and I want to go for something similar myself.
Chaosdifficulty progression is more difficult.bwa ha ha
That's totally unintentional, I swear!
*edit*
For clarity (posting at the same minute :arghfist: )
I like the idea of different regions. One of the best parts of Morrowind was the different architecture in different areas. There's the new Imperial areas, the old Dark Elf architecture, and then the Dwemer(?) Dwarf areas. iirc They weren't really confined to specific areas on the map though and the changes were more atmospheric or superficial than the 'different worlds' of Saga Frontier vibe I'm getting.
Hidden and character-specific regions really don't work well with the freeroam Morrowind/Ultima style maps either, I can see using the menu-style maps (or at least something more restricted than total freeroam, maybe regional freeroam with hubs to go to different regions?) to make these things possible.
(Yes I am pretty gay for free roam world maps)
Hidden and character-specific regions really don't work well with the freeroam Morrowind/Ultima style maps either, I can see using the menu-style maps (or at least something more restricted than total freeroam, maybe regional freeroam with hubs to go to different regions?) to make these things possible.
(Yes I am pretty gay for free roam world maps)
post=129903
(Yes I am pretty gay for free roam world maps)
I think we all are, somewhere deep down.
(brb grabbing ultima VII cloth map
post=129903
I like the idea of different regions. One of the best parts of Morrowind was the different architecture in different areas. There's the new Imperial areas, the old Dark Elf architecture, and then theDwemer(?)Dwarf areas. iirc They weren't really confined to specific areas on the map though and the changes were more atmospheric or superficial than the 'different worlds' of Saga Frontier vibe I'm getting.
Hidden and character-specific regions really don't work well with the freeroam Morrowind/Ultima style maps either, I can see using the menu-style maps (or at least something more restricted than total freeroam, maybe regional freeroam with hubs to go to different regions?) to make these things possible.
(Yes I am pretty gay for free roam world maps)
I too, am gay for free roam world maps, but considering the type of project this is, I might go insane if I try that. I'm leaning towards the SF method, and I'm trying to take inventory of the different regions throughout the game in my head. Maybe I should write them down or something.
Also guys don't forget this;
SIDEBAR: I was also giving a bit of thought on the characters themselves. I figured I might roll with the 'rule of seven' like in Saga Frontier, and make three dudes, three ladies, and something else that has no gender (a robot or something?). I REALLY like Saga Frontier's take on having interesting characters, so I figured I'd have a cast as varied as that. Any thoughts? Also, please feel free to continue the conversation above or contribute to this sidebar, or both; I can multitask!
Please chip in if you have any thoughts!
I am totally down for a party of seven ladies.
Serious: No complaint here, I'm used to working with 6-8 PCs anyway.
Serious: No complaint here, I'm used to working with 6-8 PCs anyway.
chaos if you make a game about seven ladies
I will make an game that takes place in the same game world with seven men
I will make an game that takes place in the same game world with seven men
I've been thinking of what kind of characters I want to have and I liked the wildly different set of characters that SF offered so I want to try my hand at that. An ex model/convict, a SUPER HERO, a robot, a wandering guitar playing bum, a vampire chick, etc etc. I've been playing around with that kind of character/setting mindset and it's pretty fun with what I come up with.
Some ideas for main characters
-The eldest heir of an organized crime family (Mafia-esque, sort of) and him having to deal with a family civil war infighting over control of an ancient artifact
-A golem/robot built for an expansionist empire rebels against its creators and inspires his brethren to do the same
-A sorceresses, the sole practitioner of an extremely rare brand of magic wanting to pass down her powers to an heir. Something invariably goes wrong with this.
-A mild mannered bookstore owner finds himself part of a terrorist organization to bring down his government to unveil an ancient conspiracy
-A warrior woman wandering the regions to find someone, hell bent on revenge, and willing to do whatever it takes to find this person.
-A government agent on a mission to bring down aforementioned terrorist organization
-A young girl from a mysterious region wanting to find her way home.
Just stuff I was tossing around in my head.
Some ideas for main characters
-The eldest heir of an organized crime family (Mafia-esque, sort of) and him having to deal with a family civil war infighting over control of an ancient artifact
-A golem/robot built for an expansionist empire rebels against its creators and inspires his brethren to do the same
-A sorceresses, the sole practitioner of an extremely rare brand of magic wanting to pass down her powers to an heir. Something invariably goes wrong with this.
-A mild mannered bookstore owner finds himself part of a terrorist organization to bring down his government to unveil an ancient conspiracy
-A warrior woman wandering the regions to find someone, hell bent on revenge, and willing to do whatever it takes to find this person.
-A government agent on a mission to bring down aforementioned terrorist organization
-A young girl from a mysterious region wanting to find her way home.
Just stuff I was tossing around in my head.
I like that. There is a good blend of an overarching game theme (mafia activity/terrorism; hopefully related) as well as HERE IS YOUR BUSTY MAGENUKER. Reminds me of Chronology, though, with the relic and terrorism stuff.
Well, mafia activity/terrorism kinda ISN'T the overarching game theme. I'm not sure what the overarching game theme is going to be yet, but I don't think that is going to be it. The crime family thing is only present in one plotline, and the terrorist group thing is only present in two. Saga Frontier had the overarching subject of Trinity/Cube/Mondo, but as far as this game...? I'm not sure, yet. I want most of the characters plights to be self contained, even if their stories parallel at times (and even then, it would be like, two characters or so at a time. There wouldn't be any ALL SEVEN HEROES UNITE thing going on until the very, very end of all 7 quests).
Yeah, dev time is the biggest drawback to free roam. Oh well :(
What would be the differences between the seven characters? From my experience with Romancing Saga PS2 and RS3 the chatacter selection felt more like a different prologue for each character before hitting the main game where your main character doesn't matter very much. (well RS was more "HERE COMES THE FAGGOT TRAIN CHOO CHOO EVERYBODY BUT CAPTAIN HAWKE ABOARD"). I've heard that Saga Frontier was more a bunch of different characters with their own plots but all in the same world, is that what you're planning? How would it work out with the idea of radically different regions?
What would be the differences between the seven characters? From my experience with Romancing Saga PS2 and RS3 the chatacter selection felt more like a different prologue for each character before hitting the main game where your main character doesn't matter very much. (well RS was more "HERE COMES THE FAGGOT TRAIN CHOO CHOO EVERYBODY BUT CAPTAIN HAWKE ABOARD"). I've heard that Saga Frontier was more a bunch of different characters with their own plots but all in the same world, is that what you're planning? How would it work out with the idea of radically different regions?
Romancing Saga was more like what you said; all of the characters have a different prologue, but that's generally about it. I didn't like that too much (why have different characters if the experience is mostly the same?) Saga Frontier did it a little 'better' in the fact that although the free roam aspect is always there, the differences in the characters gameplay was more pronounced, for example, Red had all sorts of different locations and quests, from the Cygnus to normally unaccessible parts of Koorong to explore, and the robot had the advantage of being able to switch models, and Emelia had a base and a team and 'missions'. So I figure I'd have it more like Saga Frontier but more fleshed out.
Easy. In Saga Frontier, all of the characters existed in the same 'world', but their issues and background and plotlines were generally self contained. So for an example, Emelia is a 'regular girl' sort of character and she lives in a very modern 'like the real world (sorta)' type region, with supermodels, policemen, cars, etc, so while she interacts with say, Asellus in her plotline, Asellus herself, with her background as a kidnapped chick who got turned into a vampire by an ancient vampire pimp who rule other vampire like people who lives in a weird region with no sun and no modern facilities at all, is allowed to coexist in a setting like that because their plotlines never cross paths, even if the characters themselves do.
I've heard that Saga Frontier was more a bunch of different characters with their own plots but all in the same world, is that what you're planning? How would it work out with the idea of radically different regions?
Easy. In Saga Frontier, all of the characters existed in the same 'world', but their issues and background and plotlines were generally self contained. So for an example, Emelia is a 'regular girl' sort of character and she lives in a very modern 'like the real world (sorta)' type region, with supermodels, policemen, cars, etc, so while she interacts with say, Asellus in her plotline, Asellus herself, with her background as a kidnapped chick who got turned into a vampire by an ancient vampire pimp who rule other vampire like people who lives in a weird region with no sun and no modern facilities at all, is allowed to coexist in a setting like that because their plotlines never cross paths, even if the characters themselves do.
I am really intrigued by many of the design elements in RS3 and SF1. While it wouldn't be a game for everyone, a more solid execution of some of those concepts could make for a really fascinating game.
Woops, what I meant by "don't punish the player when they go and explore" is basically not to implement an ER system that cause quests and things missable without warning. And not to "trap" the player in the dungeon that starts off easy then suddenly : hard bosses, without way out. That's also cruel.
Free roam is also my favourite so yeah, I am all in for that idea.
This. Saga frontier have what RS3 and RS:MS lacks : that is different plot and ending for the characters. Sure, the subquests stay the same (I repeat the same quest 7 times in a row, welp, how fun (runestone)) but at least, at least they make each hero... unique.
I mean, in RS (both), basically you are going to end up with the same thing. There is an extra scene here and there etc but it all boils down to one plot, which you can play for 7 times, each time with slightly modifications. To me, it is not too shabby, but I don't see myself replaying RS3 too much (record:3 time). In SF, I did all the 7 quests and pretty much complete everything.
What I mean to say is basically, in SF you have a lot of different worlds (it's pretty clever they made it that way so they can put in all the vampire/robot/monster thing in, I like it), but you can't really fully understand it unless you give all of the hero a shot. Like for example in a town there is person who said "a rich man who lives here has moved out in hurry" - if you play one of the hero's quest, you will find out why since he is involved in the quest. If they did a RS:MS version of Unlimited Saga, I think that's the closest to SF in PS2. Also, what SF lack is the tie in finale, and that's because the game is incomplete I think.
Compared with RS:MS, once you play the game with all the quest done, you pretty much see everything. Not much new place to see (in SF you get different final boss and did I mention character specific dungeon for each hero?). No incentive to actually do all the thing together except for the little bits. It's always that guy for the final boss.
@Feld
The list looks pretty nice. One thing I always look forward in RS is to make my own character, so you can either let us have :
a. Customized character in the game (which you can remove at will - and have little lines (silent protag))
or
b. A guy who can be recruited by everyone (no limitations like Lute).
He probably should also be a tie in character I guess, because that's usually how it turns out (and how lute's story should have been).
EDIT
Also I like the fact that the characters aren't exactly "fate-chosen" heroes (most of the time). In RS:MS , you are but mere adventurers and in SF the heroes have their own agenda instead of trying to save the world from evil or stuff like that.
Free roam is also my favourite so yeah, I am all in for that idea.
post=129955
Romancing Saga was more like what you said; all of the characters have a Saga Frontier did it a little 'better' in the fact that although the free roam aspect is always thereI've heard that Saga Frontier was more a bunch of different characters with their own plots but all in the same world, is that what you're planning? How would it work out with the idea of radically different regions?
Easy. In Saga Frontier, all of the characters existed in the same 'world',
This. Saga frontier have what RS3 and RS:MS lacks : that is different plot and ending for the characters. Sure, the subquests stay the same (I repeat the same quest 7 times in a row, welp, how fun (runestone)) but at least, at least they make each hero... unique.
I mean, in RS (both), basically you are going to end up with the same thing. There is an extra scene here and there etc but it all boils down to one plot, which you can play for 7 times, each time with slightly modifications. To me, it is not too shabby, but I don't see myself replaying RS3 too much (record:3 time). In SF, I did all the 7 quests and pretty much complete everything.
What I mean to say is basically, in SF you have a lot of different worlds (it's pretty clever they made it that way so they can put in all the vampire/robot/monster thing in, I like it), but you can't really fully understand it unless you give all of the hero a shot. Like for example in a town there is person who said "a rich man who lives here has moved out in hurry" - if you play one of the hero's quest, you will find out why since he is involved in the quest. If they did a RS:MS version of Unlimited Saga, I think that's the closest to SF in PS2. Also, what SF lack is the tie in finale, and that's because the game is incomplete I think.
Compared with RS:MS, once you play the game with all the quest done, you pretty much see everything. Not much new place to see (in SF you get different final boss and did I mention character specific dungeon for each hero?). No incentive to actually do all the thing together except for the little bits. It's always that guy for the final boss.
@Feld
The list looks pretty nice. One thing I always look forward in RS is to make my own character, so you can either let us have :
a. Customized character in the game (which you can remove at will - and have little lines (silent protag))
or
b. A guy who can be recruited by everyone (no limitations like Lute).
He probably should also be a tie in character I guess, because that's usually how it turns out (and how lute's story should have been).
EDIT
Also I like the fact that the characters aren't exactly "fate-chosen" heroes (most of the time). In RS:MS , you are but mere adventurers and in SF the heroes have their own agenda instead of trying to save the world from evil or stuff like that.
