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IS IT JUST ME, OR ARE BATTLES WHERE IT ALL GOES WRONG FOR RM GAMES?
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Closepost=133722
Sideview/frontview has nothing to do with your battles being boring guys. You just suck at making combat entertaining.
I love my man.
(no homo)
EDIT: ACTUAL USEFUL COMMENT: GOGOGO:
Easy ways to make combat more interesting:
-Elements! Use them wisely! Make them powerful, make every monster/PC have exploitable weaknesses and hard strengths, and tie status effects to each element!
-Enemy types! Certain characters/classes are very good at dispatching certain types of enemies!
-Fuck healers! Make your support characters able to actually do something! Hybridize! Make people interesting!
post=133729post=133725Players get stronger with increased stats, don't they? Also, I don't mind so much players getting evolved versions of skills as long as you get rid of the old one. I have never played an RPG where I used the weaker version of a fire spell intentionally.
Touching on the Fire 1, Fire 2, Fire 3 progression - I don't mind this at all, and in fact I like it! I like the idea that my players are growing progressively stronger.
And I was being a bit facetious on the spam comment. Point is, mage characters are often just stuck with a bunch of high level attack magic, and the only ones they use are the most elite versions of them. And I really am not a fan of it when using the biggest attacks constantly = victory, like it so often is.
Really? I've played a lot of RPGs that encourage you to NOT use your strongest spells over and over again because they suck up so much MP that you'll need for a boss, or just to get to the end of a dungeon. Yeah, you can get away with constant Fire 3ing in say, FFVI, VII, or X, but in titles like FFIV or FFV, you had better know when to conserve your MP and stick to Fire 2 every now and then or you're fucked.
FFV is kinda iffy, but I distinctly remember not being able to spam Fire 3 over and over in FFIV, lest Rydia be sitting around with her hands under her ass by the time a boss rolls around. But if you want better examples, the Suikoden series is one; with the ONLY way to replenish MP is to rest at an Inn, the series makes sure to keep every tier of spells useful to some degree so you're not just spamming the most powerful one.
More examples
-The Lunar series is punishing enough as it is with limited inventory space, difficult fights, and extremely expensive MP items. You can afford to go all out every now and then in a dungeon, but if you it for every fight, the boss is going to beat your ass.
-Breath of Fire III is sort of funny in that the main spellcaster has more MP than you could really ever use, but sort of sucks, but the main character with the best MP expendable shit in the game is better off reserving his shit in favor of his dragon forms.
-Star Ocean III has the little fact that using all of your MP kills you. Derp.
-Dragon Quest games never really seem to be forgiving to players who are irresponsible with their MP expenditure.
-The Legend of Dragoon doesn't like it when you use all of your MP for normal encounters when its so coveted; normally you can't use it at all unless you transform.
More examples
-The Lunar series is punishing enough as it is with limited inventory space, difficult fights, and extremely expensive MP items. You can afford to go all out every now and then in a dungeon, but if you it for every fight, the boss is going to beat your ass.
-Breath of Fire III is sort of funny in that the main spellcaster has more MP than you could really ever use, but sort of sucks, but the main character with the best MP expendable shit in the game is better off reserving his shit in favor of his dragon forms.
-Star Ocean III has the little fact that using all of your MP kills you. Derp.
-Dragon Quest games never really seem to be forgiving to players who are irresponsible with their MP expenditure.
-The Legend of Dragoon doesn't like it when you use all of your MP for normal encounters when its so coveted; normally you can't use it at all unless you transform.
Wrong. This ridiculously rudimentary combat system has been emulated time and time again even all the way up to current modern jRPGs. Final Fantasy used this formula for its first three installments, before finally switching to the more interesting active time. Golden Sun uses a battle system just like this. The very recent Glory of Heracles uses a system like this, albeit with a lot of gimmicks stacked on it. If you think it's just an older/2D/handheld game thing, you're wrong: Lost Odyssey uses it. Really, countless games use this exact same DQ-inspired (read: ripped off) formula. It's turned into the path of least resistance for jRPG development. There's a healthy number of jRPGs that try something different. And maybe some people who use the DQ-style combat system actually like it for whatever reason. But regardless, whenever I see it, I just get the feeling that the developers really didn't care THAT much about making combat really interesting. They just needed something to create a finished product, so they grabbed the tried-and-true DQ formula.
Is it bad that I was not interested in any of the last three FF games because they didn't use a variation of this system? Is it bad that I have no interest in most RM games that don't use some variation of this system?
Secondly, why exactly would I use Fire 1 in any instance? Do you ever use Fire 1 in Final Fantasy when you have Fire 3
Yes, actually, if I am trying to:
A) Save MP. Even if I don't really NEED to save MP, I just like being thrifty.
B) Kill an easy-to-kill enemy without overkill.
But I'm weird like that. Also I know this does nothing to break the combo of points you're unleashing, I just thought I'd mention it since the Fire 1, Fire 2, Fire 3 system is getting so much hate lately.
If the skills that do more damage have the SAME MP COST then there is really no reason for those skills not to be REPLACED by the new one.
Edit: What is cool is that combining the "percentile MP cost" and the "proportional MP damage" KGC features lets you create a direct damage skill that automatically evolves itself. It is Fire 1-10 all in one skill that automatically levels up when you do.
Dragon Quest games never really seem to be forgiving to players who are irresponsible with their MP expenditure.This series made me love the fighter-types with no skills because they are so dependable. Fighter <3
Edit: What is cool is that combining the "percentile MP cost" and the "proportional MP damage" KGC features lets you create a direct damage skill that automatically evolves itself. It is Fire 1-10 all in one skill that automatically levels up when you do.
...Until you buy that shiny new MP + 30% ring and realize it did nothing except make the numbers in your skill menu bigger. Unless, of course, their damage rises with the cost, in which case you could have a kinds of neat meta going on.
Yeah that is what "Proportional MP Damage" means. (Installing bigger batteries in Starseed: Blood Machine gives you an immediate damage (and cost) increase to Power-Proportional direct damage skills. Which is actually most of them, in the early game since all of your starting skills are scaled this way to remain useful throughout the game while never becoming effectively free to cast.)
Oh hi read that as "Proportional MG Damage", ergo, proportional to MaGic. My bad!
You could start having stuff like "Increases the cost of ______ skills by 30%" and things to that effect, as well.
You could start having stuff like "Increases the cost of ______ skills by 30%" and things to that effect, as well.
Crystalgate
694
-Dragon Quest games never really seem to be forgiving to players who are irresponsible with their MP expenditure.
It's still not a good idea to use the lower tier spells. Blazemore may be cheaper than Blazemost, but in terms of damage/MP, Blazemost wins in most DQ games. So, if you don't have the MP to cast Blazemost every turn, you're better of alternating between Blazemost and a near useless attack rather than casting Blazemore.
The same phenomenon goes for most other games with limited MP, if the offensive mage cannot stick to the late tier spells, it's better to throw in standard attacks rather than downgrading. You get a better damage/MP and damage/turn ratio that way.
The only game I can remember using lower tier spells is Lunar since often lower tier spells were enough. Nash and Mia only had to soften the enemies up enough so that Alex, Kyle and Jessica could melee half of them to death. Doing more damage than that had very little benefit.
post=133748It is the best naming convention ever. Fuck Firaga. Gimme BLAZEMOST.
Is that really what they call the spells in Dragon Quest? : (
Gimme Agilao and Mahamaon! Heck, gimme Gires and Nafoi!
Now those are awesome spell names - you look at a list of 10 of those and have no idea what any of them does! FUN!
Now those are awesome spell names - you look at a list of 10 of those and have no idea what any of them does! FUN!
Neophyte
155
Man, there are other mechanics involved with the whole mp thing. =/
Final Fantasy Tactics and The Legend of the Philosopher's Stone are good examples of it. If you used a really powerful summon or spell in Tactics, it took you ages to get your turn again. If you can incorporate MP into other statistics (such as speed in these cases), you will want to use other spells or skills.
But in a turn based or ATB type system where it isn't incorporated into anything, it doesn't work too well.
Final Fantasy Tactics and The Legend of the Philosopher's Stone are good examples of it. If you used a really powerful summon or spell in Tactics, it took you ages to get your turn again. If you can incorporate MP into other statistics (such as speed in these cases), you will want to use other spells or skills.
But in a turn based or ATB type system where it isn't incorporated into anything, it doesn't work too well.
post=133755
Gimme Agilao and Mahamaon! Heck, gimme Gires and Nafoi!
Now those are awesome spell names - you look at a list of 10 of those and have no idea what any of them does! FUN!
*5-8 of those. SMT games use eight, and I'm pretty sure Phantasy Star limits you to five. Also, they're more interesting than FIRA, and they're standardized. It is not hard to learn that "foi" is "fire."
Because I want every single game to name every fire skill "Fire." Are you that fucking old that you can't handle learning six new fake words for a 30+ hour experience?
(Okay, RM* games aren't 30+ hour experiences since they don't get released, BUT)
(Okay, RM* games aren't 30+ hour experiences since they don't get released, BUT)
post=133757
Man, there are other mechanics involved with the whole mp thing. =/
Final Fantasy Tactics and The Legend of the Philosopher's Stone are good examples of it. If you used a really powerful summon or spell in Tactics, it took you ages to get your turn again. If you can incorporate MP into other statistics (such as speed in these cases), you will want to use other spells or skills.
But in a turn based or ATB type system where it isn't incorporated into anything, it doesn't work too well.
FFIV had casting times, too!
