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SORRY, BUT I LOVE THE IDEA OF MAKING FANGAMES.
Posts
WeaselEliot
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Closepost=134871
This discussion's becoming more idiotic with every post.
Listen, Weasel, I get that you like fangames and are working on one. That's fine, game making is a hobby, if that's what pleases you then go ahead, no one should be telling you how to spend your spare time.
But why do you persist in trying to persuade everyone that fangames are God's gift to humanity? If others don't like fangames then that's fine too, it's their choice just as yours is to like them. It's not like you're going to change anyone's mind on the Internet, man. It doesn't work like that.
'Cause, you know, you're trying to come up with a definition of fangame that is so detached from what's commonly been accepted that it's just silly. The main difference between a fangame and an official game (movie/book/whatever) is that fangames are made by amateurs with no or very limited budget, whereas official works do have a budget; furthermore, the producer of such game has paid for the rights to use the exclusive material that belongs (usually) to the original author/company. SO, if Lucas sells Star Wars right to a company that creates a manga version of Star Wars, then it's an official product and not a fangame. Whether the original creator had any direct input does not matter (I mean, is the original writer of Star Trek even still alive?); furthermore, whether it'll come to be regarded as canon is a different matter altogether.
The reason why so many dislike fangames is because they're made (to reiterate) by amateurs and their quality is very, very low compared to games with actual budget (= team of pros). With fangames you have something to compare them to, and the fangame will always pale in comparison to the original. Original games are in a better position, because they're not based on any existing work in particular.
I don't know DE, I think this discussion went fine for the most part. Your responses were the only downright 'typically internet' ones.
My intention of starting this thread wasn't to justify my making a fangame. I may have had ideas for a fangame and written down ideas/designs, but I have original ideas too (Far too many to handle, but who doesn't?). I'm definitely open to making fan games, but me posting this thread not a case of me 'hey I have a project but oh no it's a fangame i wonder what people on RMN will think so let me just post a thread just in case'. That's just a strawman you and a few others have set up, as well as the 'Star Wars is fanfiction' argument which I am not making (and I think you know this.) If you noticed I asked if anyone had any ideas for fangames, because they have no doubt come to me when I'm playing some of my favourite games (What if...? sort of ideas), but it has to be all RARLOLFANGAMESUXXXXXXX </internet>, doesn't it?
Oh, and budget is a factor, but not the defining quality. When someone wants to make Final Fantasy XIII-2 on RPG Maker, it's silly. It's about using your common sense really. 'Final Fantasy Monsters' in the spirit of 'Dragon Quest Monsters' but using Snes FF rips is viable, I'd think (Not that FF's monsters are memorable enough to warrant that game)
AznChipmunk
4613
post=134864
It seems as if you want me to say 'ha ha, Star Wars V/VI is fanfiction!' so you can all laugh at what a ridiculous idea this is.
I did not say this. I was saying that what you said about KOTOR = Chris Avellone writing a fanfic that has George Lucas keeping an eye on it to make it officially sanctioned is the same thing as saying Star Wars V/VI is some fan-made film with just "official" sanction. It's like you're only trying to take in the example of KOTOR and block out other examples like Star Wars V/VI.
Budget is not a defining quality, but budget is a major factor. The way you mentioned it, you downplayed it, which it shouldn't be. Most games are not made by a single person. If you're talking about RPGMaker, most games are made by teenagers in their spare time, and most never end up being released.
What does money do? It gives incentive to release since people get paid to finish what they are working on, or they have to finish a product to make a profit. Without a budget, you are unlikely to get the highest quality gameplay, graphics, music, and whatnot unless you are very talented or very lucky. (Although if you are very talented, you probably do that stuff for money.) That's why people make game design teams, so different people can do different work, and that's also why the best people at making games in the industry are people who are actually paid to do it. And these people make the highest quality and most polished games.
post=134890post=134871I don't know DE, I think this discussion went fine for the most part. Your responses were the only downright 'typically internet' ones.
This discussion's becoming more idiotic with every post.
Listen, Weasel, I get that you like fangames and are working on one. That's fine, game making is a hobby, if that's what pleases you then go ahead, no one should be telling you how to spend your spare time.
But why do you persist in trying to persuade everyone that fangames are God's gift to humanity? If others don't like fangames then that's fine too, it's their choice just as yours is to like them. It's not like you're going to change anyone's mind on the Internet, man. It doesn't work like that.
'Cause, you know, you're trying to come up with a definition of fangame that is so detached from what's commonly been accepted that it's just silly. The main difference between a fangame and an official game (movie/book/whatever) is that fangames are made by amateurs with no or very limited budget, whereas official works do have a budget; furthermore, the producer of such game has paid for the rights to use the exclusive material that belongs (usually) to the original author/company. SO, if Lucas sells Star Wars right to a company that creates a manga version of Star Wars, then it's an official product and not a fangame. Whether the original creator had any direct input does not matter (I mean, is the original writer of Star Trek even still alive?); furthermore, whether it'll come to be regarded as canon is a different matter altogether.
The reason why so many dislike fangames is because they're made (to reiterate) by amateurs and their quality is very, very low compared to games with actual budget (= team of pros). With fangames you have something to compare them to, and the fangame will always pale in comparison to the original. Original games are in a better position, because they're not based on any existing work in particular.
My intention of starting this thread wasn't to justify my making a fangame. I may have had ideas for a fangame and written down ideas/designs, but I have original ideas too (Far too many to handle, but who doesn't?). I'm definitely open to making fan games, but me posting this thread not a case of me 'hey I have a project but oh no it's a fangame i wonder what people on RMN will think so let me just post a thread just in case'. That's just a strawman you and a few others have set up, as well as the 'Star Wars is fanfiction' argument which I am not making (and I think you know this.) If you noticed I asked if anyone had any ideas for fangames, because they have no doubt come to me when I'm playing some of my favourite games (What if...? sort of ideas), but it has to be all RARLOLFANGAMESUXXXXXXX </internet>, doesn't it?
Oh, and budget is a factor, but not the defining quality. When someone wants to make Final Fantasy XIII-2 on RPG Maker, it's silly. It's about using your common sense really. 'Final Fantasy Monsters' in the spirit of 'Dragon Quest Monsters' but using Snes FF rips is viable, I'd think (Not that FF's monsters are memorable enough to warrant that game)
You just went on a rant about how everyone in this thread missed the point without ever mentioning what your point is.
I love how we've managed to find yet another way to discourage people from feeling welcome in the community by saying "go ahead and make this but no one here will play it 'cause we're too smart for that".
post=134898post=134864I did not say this. I was saying that what you said about KOTOR = Chris Avellone writing a fanfic that has George Lucas keeping an eye on it to make it officially sanctioned is the same thing as saying Star Wars V/VI is some fan-made film with just "official" sanction. It's like you're only trying to take in the example of KOTOR and block out other examples like Star Wars V/VI.
It seems as if you want me to say 'ha ha, Star Wars V/VI is fanfiction!' so you can all laugh at what a ridiculous idea this is.
Budget is not a defining quality, but budget is a major factor. The way you mentioned it, you downplayed it, which it shouldn't be. Most games are not made by a single person. If you're talking about RPGMaker, most games are made by teenagers in their spare time, and most never end up being released.
What does money do? It gives incentive to release since people get paid to finish what they are working on, or they have to finish a product to make a profit. Without a budget, you are unlikely to get the highest quality gameplay, graphics, music, and whatnot unless you are very talented or very lucky. (Although if you are very talented, you probably do that stuff for money.) That's why people make game design teams, so different people can do different work, and that's also why the best people at making games in the industry are people who are actually paid to do it. And these people make the highest quality and most polished games.
I'm not disagreeing with that. The reason that most RPG Maker games 'fail' or not get completed is because they're too ambitious, and most of these games are made by teams, etc. but this is an issue with homemade games in general and not just fan games. I'm suggesting fangame-making as an option because game design can become very difficult for one person.
And if I were to go down the fangame option, I'd probably reinterpret some obscure SNES game instead of going the FF7: Zero route where it looks like I'm just creating an extra module for the game a la Neverwinter Nights or Morrowind. It would be a fan game because I wouldn't feel right creating something completely original using other people's graphics. I am also open to idea of creating crude graphics with my limited art skills I suppose, but not *every single* aspect of game making appeals to me at the moment.
I wonder if my loving the idea of making fangames stems from Friday afternoons at primary school, when we had to rewrite fairy tales. My teacher thought I was good at it and so I received plenty of encouragement. He did not say lol fanficssux =P
post=134905
You just went on a rant about how everyone in this thread missed the point without ever mentioning what your point is.
What are you talking about? I certainly did not rant about 'everyone in this thread' missing the point.
AznChipmunk
4613
post=134906
I love how we've managed to find yet another way to discourage people from feeling welcome in the community by saying "go ahead and make this but no one here will play it 'cause we're too smart for that".
You do realize most of the people in this community won't even read this at all, right? And that's why we're renaming the site to not rpgmaker.net.
post=134912maybe. We maybe are.post=134906You do realize most of the people in this community won't even read this at all, right? And that's why we're renaming the site to not rpgmaker.net.
I love how we've managed to find yet another way to discourage people from feeling welcome in the community by saying "go ahead and make this but no one here will play it 'cause we're too smart for that".
And people play fangames. Maybe not the people that frequent the forums, but a fangame is a frequent target to drive-by visitors looking for a familiar feeling RPG to play.
I'm going to make a game that has solid presentation, is fairly original, has nice not-ripped graphics, good music, balanced battles, decent character customization and interesting characters. Then, I'm going to release it outside of a community that has fifteen active members. I'm also going to enjoy myself making it, even though most of it is actual work.
(this is aimed at some posts last page about "PRESENTATION OR FUN PICK ONE")
(this is aimed at some posts last page about "PRESENTATION OR FUN PICK ONE")
post=134914post=134912maybe. We maybe are.post=134906You do realize most of the people in this community won't even read this at all, right? And that's why we're renaming the site to not rpgmaker.net.
I love how we've managed to find yet another way to discourage people from feeling welcome in the community by saying "go ahead and make this but no one here will play it 'cause we're too smart for that".
And people play fangames. Maybe not the people that frequent the forums, but a fangame is a frequent target to drive-by visitors looking for a familiar feeling RPG to play.
One of the quickest downloaded games in the past few months was that Chrono Trigger fangame mostly released to Chrono Compendium. Everyone there loved it.
knaskflnklsdnfklsdnlkf nsdaklfnlaksdnglkasngkngngggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg kentona pick BOTH
post=134918
knaskflnklsdnfklsdnlkf nsdaklfnlaksdnglkasngkngngggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg kentona pick BOTH
I said it just to push your buttons :D
(I do pick both! I just quite enjoy RTP and Dragon Warrior, and have a lower (compared to some) threshold for satisfaction with presentation)
AznChipmunk
4613
post=134917post=134914One of the quickest downloaded games in the past few months was that Chrono Trigger fangame mostly released to Chrono Compendium. Everyone there loved it.post=134912maybe. We maybe are.post=134906You do realize most of the people in this community won't even read this at all, right? And that's why we're renaming the site to not rpgmaker.net.
I love how we've managed to find yet another way to discourage people from feeling welcome in the community by saying "go ahead and make this but no one here will play it 'cause we're too smart for that".
And people play fangames. Maybe not the people that frequent the forums, but a fangame is a frequent target to drive-by visitors looking for a familiar feeling RPG to play.
Yeah, I think it's the game on the site with the most views or something?
Just because people play it doesn't mean it's good. Like someone already mentioned earlier in the topic, it's easy to be a people pleaser and tag your game with Final Fantasy and get lots of download, but it doesn't mean you will make a quality game. Fangames tend to either receive NO attention or a lot of attention.
That's not the point I'm trying to make; I'm just saying that someone made a game and a whole bunch of people enjoyed it, and there's nothing wrong with that.
post=134922
Just because people play it doesn't mean it's good.
This discussion is starting to go dangerous places...
post=134716
Countless conversations like these are why I'm slowly edging towards the 'I literally don't give a shit about anything in the development process/what the game looks like/rips/original graphics/fangame/original concept/battle system/program used to make game/etc as long as its fun' camp. Honestly I think all of us spend too much time driving pointless minute shit into the ground instead of making, playing, and ultimately finishing games, and then ironically when we're confronted about it we throw up our hands and say 'I DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO FINISH MAKING/PLAYING GAMES OKAY' *posts incessantly about stupid shit instead*
I'm not saying we shouldn't have these conversations on the fundamentals of games; they give a lot of insight, but god damn.
post=134927post=134922This discussion is starting to go dangerous places...
Just because people play it doesn't mean it's good.
post=134922post=134917Yeah, I think it's the game on the site with the most views or something?post=134914One of the quickest downloaded games in the past few months was that Chrono Trigger fangame mostly released to Chrono Compendium. Everyone there loved it.post=134912maybe. We maybe are.post=134906You do realize most of the people in this community won't even read this at all, right? And that's why we're renaming the site to not rpgmaker.net.
I love how we've managed to find yet another way to discourage people from feeling welcome in the community by saying "go ahead and make this but no one here will play it 'cause we're too smart for that".
And people play fangames. Maybe not the people that frequent the forums, but a fangame is a frequent target to drive-by visitors looking for a familiar feeling RPG to play.
Just because people play it doesn't mean it's good. Like someone already mentioned earlier in the topic, it's easy to be a people pleaser and tag your game with Final Fantasy and get lots of download, but it doesn't mean you will make a quality game. Fangames tend to either receive NO attention or a lot of attention.
I pretty much agree with this. The popularity of a game is not an indicator of the quality of a game. For example, Monopoly is one of the most (if not the most) popular board games in America, but it's fundamentally a terrible game.
But that's getting off-topic. I don't think many people intentionally label their games as fangames in order to get more attention. I feel that developers that are mature enough to start making original games would also want to make their ideas stand out rather than have them compared to another, established series.
The point I was trying to get at is that fangames aren't inherently bad, but the vast majority of them are made by new developers, and games by new developers almost always suck. There's the occasional high-quality fangame, but it takes an outstanding level of polish to make it stand out above all the other RM games with Final Fantasy in the title.
You missed the point as well. MY point was this; in the example of the Chrono fangame above, it was a success. The guy who made the game made it with an intended audience in mind, released it to said intended audience, and intended audience loved it and played the fuck out of it. Mission accomplished.
The Chrono Trigger fangame guy is, by default more successful than a grand majority of us because he did BOTH of the things most people in the community lament about and ultimately fall short on; 1. He FINISHED a game, and 2. He got a LOT of people to play and enjoy it. And honestly, that's what most of us here want. Should we set our standards to be higher? Sure. Should we pander to people by releasing substandard products? No. Should we make games we ultimately enjoy and hope other people will play and enjoy? Yes.
Period.
The Chrono Trigger fangame guy is, by default more successful than a grand majority of us because he did BOTH of the things most people in the community lament about and ultimately fall short on; 1. He FINISHED a game, and 2. He got a LOT of people to play and enjoy it. And honestly, that's what most of us here want. Should we set our standards to be higher? Sure. Should we pander to people by releasing substandard products? No. Should we make games we ultimately enjoy and hope other people will play and enjoy? Yes.
Period.
