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GAMEPLAY IS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS
Posts
KingArthur
View playlists
CloseThere are games that have either gameplay that is next to non-existant or gameplay that is broken but are still enjoyable.
Visual novels are a prime example of the former. Minimal (if not non-existant) gameplay, let alone interactivity; the focus is completely on the story.
There's the issue of exactly how much of a game those actually are, to be fair! If they focus on phazing out their gameplay, they're straddling the line between a game and an illustrated e-book. The ones with zero gameplay are, to be frank, not games.
Is a Choose your own adventure book a game? (despite being horribly bad in all other ways)
Is a Choose your own adventure book a game? (despite being horribly bad in all other ways)
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
post=151197No, but Phoenix Wright is. And yet, the gameplay consists entirely - totally and completely - of nothing except proving how well you understand the story.
Is a Choose your own adventure book a game? (despite being horribly bad in all other ways)
And it's still fun. The GAMEPLAY is still fun, not just the story. I don't know how they do it, but it's definitely a winning formula.
You can have a game without a story, and you can have a story without game. It's very common to combine the two, though, and a lot of people prefer it - or at least prefer it over the game without a story. So if you plan on combining them, you should make sure both parts are done well - though neither has to be done quite as well as it would if you were making a pure story or a pure game. If you don't plan on combining them, then it will probably help your popularity if your game is not of a genre that people expect to combine them. In other words, you should probably make a strategy game or a dungeon crawler, not a JRPG.
I think the story helps rope the player in long enough to get used to the battle mechanics. The second half of the game is prime time to unleash the full potential of the battle system. In short, a story-intensive first half, and a gameplay-intensive second half. FF13 did this to perfection, although the first 2 hours should have featured far fewer battles (UGH so tedious on replays).
AznChipmunk
4613
post=151221
I think the story helps rope the player in long enough to get used to the battle mechanics. The second half of the game is prime time to unleash the full potential of the battle system. In short, a story-intensive first half, and a gameplay-intensive second half. FF13 did this to perfection, although the first 2 hours should have featured far fewer battles (UGH so tedious on replays).
... Uh, did you post this in the right topic?
post=151223post=151221... Uh, did you post this in the right topic?
I think the story helps rope the player in long enough to get used to the battle mechanics. The second half of the game is prime time to unleash the full potential of the battle system. In short, a story-intensive first half, and a gameplay-intensive second half. FF13 did this to perfection, although the first 2 hours should have featured far fewer battles (UGH so tedious on replays).
Yep. I don't think gameplay is the only thing that matters, as a good story will help keep a player interested as they are eased into the depths of gameplay.
I know there's nothing wrong with discussion, and dissertation, but the more you guys try to break apart and dissect the magic ingredients of FUN like a couple of Asperger patients, the more (I hope) you realize that it's something a bit more ethereal and unseen than you're giving it credit for. Like Soli said, what makes a game fun isn't something that you can turn into a list or equate it. It's something that's very distinct, personal, and contingent.
AznChipmunk
4613
Er, I don't think any of us were really trying to "dissect." At least I wasn't, I was just stating that gameplay isn't necessarily the most important part of a game.
Darken
3952
Well yeah the discussion can sometimes waver do to it being on the doorstep of the unexplained. But I thought kentona did a pretty good job at labeling fun in the best possible use of words. But there can be value in the aesthetics part of the game and find it hard to believe that say, MGS3 simply didn't need what made it so great. But like geodude said, it really depends on the game and it's supposed audience, and thats where subjectiveness and 'hard to explain' comes in.
Idk I liked this discussion, a lot of people here review games and cut them up into categories (leveldesign/graphics/sound/blahblah) and dissect them, so I really don't know why this topic is "useless" to some.
Idk I liked this discussion, a lot of people here review games and cut them up into categories (leveldesign/graphics/sound/blahblah) and dissect them, so I really don't know why this topic is "useless" to some.
I just get sick of people trying to break down what makes "good game" into some kind of magical "equation." Good game = gameplayx2/story^n -(graphics+sound} as if you can plug in numbers and out comes a perfect game. There is more to it than that, something beyond the mechanical or numerical or the graphical, the soul and wit and charm that really creates a memorable game. It's like what Mog said, it is something you can't put into words, much less an equation.
post=151243
The answer to your question, and any other mysteries of the world, is...Love...
<3
C-cave story is made with a lot of love so even tho it doesn't stand out so much in all aspects it created a memorable game! It's a nice balance ;w; (Decent Story, Graphics, Gameplay and Audio)
post=151250
What are you talking about, Cave Story is fucking awesome in every single way.
That's what I'm saying, it has nothing that stands out a LOT like, THE MAIN CHARACTER IS SO AWESOME AND THE STORY IS A FRIGGING EPIC THAT NEEDS TO BE MADE INTO A BOOK or a gameplay so complex that OMG IT'S LIKE *insert platformer here* THAT HAS A VERY UNIQUE MECHANIC IT'S AN EPIC.
Instead it's a PERFECT BALANCE OF EVERYTHING without overpowering each other
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
post=151230
I know there's nothing wrong with discussion, and dissertation, but the more you guys try to break apart and dissect the magic ingredients of FUN like a couple of Asperger patients, the more (I hope) you realize that it's something a bit more ethereal and unseen than you're giving it credit for. Like Soli said, what makes a game fun isn't something that you can turn into a list or equate it. It's something that's very distinct, personal, and contingent.
This is the worst thing I've ever read. As someone who is trying to create something to be the best it can be, you should always be trying to figure out HOW to make it be the best it can be. Doesn't that go without saying? Isn't that the entire reason you're on this forum?
There are formulas as to what works and what doesn't. There are ideas in game creation that are seemingly great ways to improve your games, but directly in conflict with each-other. There are systems that seem to solve problems, but only create others. Our goal - your goal - is to figure out exactly what path leads to the perfect game. If you want to just shoot blindly, this is the wrong place to spend your time - and certainly the wrong place to tell others that trying to figure out how to make better games is a waste of time.
post=151242
I just get sick of people trying to break down what makes "good game" into some kind of magical "equation." Good game = gameplayx2/story^n -(graphics+sound} as if you can plug in numbers and out comes a perfect game. There is more to it than that, something beyond the mechanical or numerical or the graphical, the soul and wit and charm that really creates a memorable game. It's like what Mog said, it is something you can't put into words, much less an equation.
What you are talking about is "polish". Perhaps to an end user, a polished game will be the most memorable - but it will always have major problems, problems which the player is simply willing to ignore because the game is made with such... finesse. But while hiding a game's issues behind a wall of production value will indisputably make it more enjoyable, it will not perfect it. Giving a game this sense of style and charm is a worthwhile endeavor, but doesn't solve the game's other problems.
Final Fantasy 6 is a great game, but it has significant problems. Characters are woefully imbalanced against each-other, especially those who are obtained last in the world of ruin - they'll be missing out on 20 levels worth of stats. Normal attacks are completely useless for several characters. Armor and helmets are almost useless for the first third of the game, due to the defense formula the game uses - to say nothing of the evade bugs. The large number of unusual and interesting magic spells is rendered pointless due to the game's very low difficulty, which makes all but a few of the spells completely pointless to bother with. And yet this game - which I've named myself after - is considered one of the greatest games of all time, due to the innovations it added to the RPG genre and the baseline it created for future fantasy game plots. Imagine how much better it would be if the problems were fixed? If the gameplay were perfected by people who care about gameplay? Imagine playing it not just for the story and nostalgia, but also because the battles and customization were just as fun. Wouldn't that be better?
And if it would be better, why are you not striving for it? You're a game designer, after all. You're not being stopped by a corporate budget or a strict timeline. If your passion is making games, then make games like you're passionate about it! Start with the best game ever, locate every single problem in it, and fix them. Then find the new problems you caused, and fix those. And keep doing that, more and more and more, until no one on Earth could possibly find anything about the game that's not completely perfect.
...Or just make another FF7 ripoff with the DBS. Who am I to judge?
