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PRETENTIOUS BULLSHIT AND MISSING THE POINT: THE SEQUEL TO THE GAME TO THE MOVIE
Posts
Karsuman
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CloseSo I was talking to Calunio in IRC about the perception of RM* games today and he brought up a little indie (non-RM*) game named Edmund.
Edmund was released as part of a four week contest hosted by TIG. It is a game about a rapist.
What, you ask? Yes, that was my reaction too. Now, there are two main ways I could have seen this game being handled:
1) Meaningful discourse/observations about (very) rarely explored subject matter.
2) A shock jock-style attempt to garner attention by offering some vague preconception of depth and symbolism.
Now, before you ask (or download it, God save you), it is obvious that the game falls squarely in the latter of these two possibilities. The gameplay is non-existant outside of jumping over a few pits and land mines. You get guns, but there are no targets besides doors and three potential victims, only one of which tries to fight back. The subject matter is handled without subtlety or class, and the dialogue is pointless - not one single line seems to serve a purpose outside of advancing the 'plot' along. I say plot because I hesitate to call what this game offers a story.
And yet it still won TIG's contest. (see here: http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=7775.0)
Now, the main point of my rambling, and it is very relevant to RM* because we have had games like this released:
Why does shit like this fly with people? Are people really so desperate to offer depth and meaning in their game stories that they fall to this base level of sick shit, and are we (the players, in general) not fools for failing to notice it? The game tries to appear as if it has something meaningful to say with its split-personality story, vague allusions to Vietnam and grayscale sprites that is reminiscent of something like film noir, but in reality it feels like it was made by some high schooler that laughs at tasteless rape jokes. It is like asking the player to not laugh at Satan's wildly swinging dong in Dante's Inferno or something. It just doesn't work, and you can tell it doesn't if you just look a little.
I am of the opinion that you must approach controversial subject matter with great tact if you want it to be taken seriously. If you want to make your story about rape, racism, religion, war and death believable and strong you absolutely cannot handle the material like a blunt instrument - it must be handled with precision and care. And you certainly can't shove this crap down a reasonable person's mouth and expect them to chew until you have given them a legitimate reason to care about what you are trying to say - if they accept otherwise, they are cattle, and cattle will eat anything.
Or maybe I am wrong about all of this and I am just being a cynical asshole. Not going to discount that possibility, either.
Your thoughts?
P.S: Here's the link for Edmund, if you guys are just that morbidly curious: http://www.paul-greasley.com/Edmund/edmund.zip
Edmund was released as part of a four week contest hosted by TIG. It is a game about a rapist.
What, you ask? Yes, that was my reaction too. Now, there are two main ways I could have seen this game being handled:
1) Meaningful discourse/observations about (very) rarely explored subject matter.
2) A shock jock-style attempt to garner attention by offering some vague preconception of depth and symbolism.
Now, before you ask (or download it, God save you), it is obvious that the game falls squarely in the latter of these two possibilities. The gameplay is non-existant outside of jumping over a few pits and land mines. You get guns, but there are no targets besides doors and three potential victims, only one of which tries to fight back. The subject matter is handled without subtlety or class, and the dialogue is pointless - not one single line seems to serve a purpose outside of advancing the 'plot' along. I say plot because I hesitate to call what this game offers a story.
And yet it still won TIG's contest. (see here: http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=7775.0)
Now, the main point of my rambling, and it is very relevant to RM* because we have had games like this released:
Why does shit like this fly with people? Are people really so desperate to offer depth and meaning in their game stories that they fall to this base level of sick shit, and are we (the players, in general) not fools for failing to notice it? The game tries to appear as if it has something meaningful to say with its split-personality story, vague allusions to Vietnam and grayscale sprites that is reminiscent of something like film noir, but in reality it feels like it was made by some high schooler that laughs at tasteless rape jokes. It is like asking the player to not laugh at Satan's wildly swinging dong in Dante's Inferno or something. It just doesn't work, and you can tell it doesn't if you just look a little.
I am of the opinion that you must approach controversial subject matter with great tact if you want it to be taken seriously. If you want to make your story about rape, racism, religion, war and death believable and strong you absolutely cannot handle the material like a blunt instrument - it must be handled with precision and care. And you certainly can't shove this crap down a reasonable person's mouth and expect them to chew until you have given them a legitimate reason to care about what you are trying to say - if they accept otherwise, they are cattle, and cattle will eat anything.
Or maybe I am wrong about all of this and I am just being a cynical asshole. Not going to discount that possibility, either.
Your thoughts?
P.S: Here's the link for Edmund, if you guys are just that morbidly curious: http://www.paul-greasley.com/Edmund/edmund.zip
catmitts
4862
Yeah Edmund is pretty awful and even speaking as someone with a high tolerance for pretentious bullshit I couldn't recommend playing it at all. I don't particularly care about debating the moral aspects of art or whatever the fuck but part of what annoyed me was that it was just such a dumb game! Like it's almost a parody of trite sophomoric (horrible word but jesus christ if there was ever a reason to use it) stuff. Look it's a rape heh offended yet kiddies......... Also it's portrayed in terms of a platform shooter because uh videogames I guess?? And it turns out to be because of Vietnam. I think the Vietnam reference is kind of TELLING in the sense that I have no idea why a 21st century vidcon developer would try to make a statement about NAM as opposed to more current and uh thematically interchangeable wars. Actually that's a lie it's because Vietnam has become more associated with the horror the horror etc and this guy didn't bother to detatch the message from the form it takes.
Also uh even for a game about rape it is p misogynistic?? Character development and action is for men, women are literally mindless passive blobs to be beaten and penetrated and killed. If the rest of the game had any level of substance to it I'd let it go as being possibly intentional but NOP.
Basically I think ARTGAMS get a disproportionate amount of hate for what they're at least trying to be but stuff like this really drags the problems with them into focus: the problems with making things whose only purpose is to demonstrate artiness. Everyone wants to make some incredible masterpiece which shows GAMES: NOT JUST FOR KIDS ANYMORE and encompasses life death love the horror of our age ~ n. mailer but that shit tends to be so generalized that it doesn't actually say anything. Edmund is basically a pastiche of high art in terms of uh terse melodramatic garbage with a BIG MESSAGE because all art needs a BIG MESSAGE and should be SHOCKING. And maybe a hamfisted message about audience implication in this stuff because there's nothing like turning the mirror around on the imaginary bourgeoise and j'accusing majestically to make up for a complete lack of thought or perspective and coincidentally take the spotlight off the developer's role. He's just an objective student of humanity (a "social experimenter" if you will heh) and it's not his fault if people play the rape game he developed and distributed, the sick fucks.
Basically uh short answer is that this is cargo-cult art. It's a crude simulation which tries to superficially replicate the structure and feel of "important" art without understanding what any of it actually means or is used for. I don't want to be some Daily Mail curmudgeon and start shouting about pretentiousness etc because there's absolutely a place for that but I'd kind of like it if game developers just tried to honestly explore their own ideas and medium instead of scrabbling to be the first to make the Ulysses of vidcons or whatever the fuck.
Also uh even for a game about rape it is p misogynistic?? Character development and action is for men, women are literally mindless passive blobs to be beaten and penetrated and killed. If the rest of the game had any level of substance to it I'd let it go as being possibly intentional but NOP.
Basically I think ARTGAMS get a disproportionate amount of hate for what they're at least trying to be but stuff like this really drags the problems with them into focus: the problems with making things whose only purpose is to demonstrate artiness. Everyone wants to make some incredible masterpiece which shows GAMES: NOT JUST FOR KIDS ANYMORE and encompasses life death love the horror of our age ~ n. mailer but that shit tends to be so generalized that it doesn't actually say anything. Edmund is basically a pastiche of high art in terms of uh terse melodramatic garbage with a BIG MESSAGE because all art needs a BIG MESSAGE and should be SHOCKING. And maybe a hamfisted message about audience implication in this stuff because there's nothing like turning the mirror around on the imaginary bourgeoise and j'accusing majestically to make up for a complete lack of thought or perspective and coincidentally take the spotlight off the developer's role. He's just an objective student of humanity (a "social experimenter" if you will heh) and it's not his fault if people play the rape game he developed and distributed, the sick fucks.
Basically uh short answer is that this is cargo-cult art. It's a crude simulation which tries to superficially replicate the structure and feel of "important" art without understanding what any of it actually means or is used for. I don't want to be some Daily Mail curmudgeon and start shouting about pretentiousness etc because there's absolutely a place for that but I'd kind of like it if game developers just tried to honestly explore their own ideas and medium instead of scrabbling to be the first to make the Ulysses of vidcons or whatever the fuck.
Darken
3952
There's really not much to say. Overly self subtractive games purely made to "make a point" come off as really boring to play. I actually turned this game off when I found out the needless running and minor platforming, why not just make it a movie or comic? Didn't get to the end nor did I give a shit.
S. F. LaValle
1069
I wouldn't worry too much about the people voting in that compo. The game managed to beat the likes of Back Door Man and I HAVE CANDY IN THE VAN.
Karsu has a point though. There's a point where we all drew our first pair of boobs when Paint was new and exciting (and easy to set as a background) but didn't we get to that point a long time ago in RPG Maker and other like programs? It doesn't even fulfill personal desires (I hope). People will still take you seriously if you write a story without sex, or even death. Maybe people who have done this can give us some insight into their thoughts and inspiration behind that sort of content.
Karsu has a point though. There's a point where we all drew our first pair of boobs when Paint was new and exciting (and easy to set as a background) but didn't we get to that point a long time ago in RPG Maker and other like programs? It doesn't even fulfill personal desires (I hope). People will still take you seriously if you write a story without sex, or even death. Maybe people who have done this can give us some insight into their thoughts and inspiration behind that sort of content.
Since I don't think I have anything to add to the discussion right now, I'll just recommend a game that is about a "touchy" subject, it's "artsy", but it's quite good imo.
Coma
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/541124
--edit--
About Edmund... I thought it was a bad game with very boring gameplay and very nice visuals, but it didn't offend me. I wouldn't even say it tries to "approach" a controversial subject. That's barely an approach.
Coma
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/541124
--edit--
About Edmund... I thought it was a bad game with very boring gameplay and very nice visuals, but it didn't offend me. I wouldn't even say it tries to "approach" a controversial subject. That's barely an approach.
Speaking of tact, lets not forget the most (in)famous RPG Maker game of all time:
Basically just an exercise in how far you can push the barriers of taste.
Basically just an exercise in how far you can push the barriers of taste.
MKID232
435
post=152919I hope the person who made that game will rot in hell for all eternity like the asshole that he is.
Speaking of tact, lets not forget the most (in)famous RPG Maker game of all time:
Basically just an exercise in how far you can push the barriers of taste.
Darken
3952
Not really sure what you hope to accomplish with an inane death threat. Getting mad at it is "SORTA THE POINT!!!!111!1" or something. wouldn't want the creator of the game to "win" HEH
post=152922
Not really sure what you hope to accomplish with an inane death threat. Getting mad at it is "SORTA THE POINT!!!!111!1" or something. wouldn't want the creator of the game to "win" HEH
You have no idea how much that comment scares me.
To me those sort of games are identical to stuff like the images in the iScribble thread here. It's just juvenile low-brow blue humor. It's existence has no real affect upon anything, so I never understand why people go into fake outrage mode upon discovering them.
Anyway, I think Dildo Tank the First Squirt should have won that contest on it's name alone.
Anyway, I think Dildo Tank the First Squirt should have won that contest on it's name alone.
I would give massive props to someone who decided to risk ridicule and exile by touching on a very sensitive subject, just because he had the cajones to do it. But there's a difference between wanting to make a good game that deals with some serious stuff, and adding pointless flame-fanning subject matter because it draws instant attention to itself.
It's sad, but it works - people love train wrecks, violence, and anything that's taboo. All you can do is try not to give the "artist" the attention he craves.
Personally, I'm not offended, but then again it takes a lot to offend me.
It's sad, but it works - people love train wrecks, violence, and anything that's taboo. All you can do is try not to give the "artist" the attention he craves.
Personally, I'm not offended, but then again it takes a lot to offend me.
MKID232
435
The sad thing about that columbine game is if it wasn't based on that event, it would've been an interesting game.
ElectricalKat
254
I imagine that those kinds of games appeal to the same people who would play things like this little infamous H-game. There are just people out there who seriously get their jollies off of being a good little sociopath to defenseless pixels, because they would (hopefully...) never dare to do that in real life.
As far as how a creator could handle such controversial subjects... I guess it would depend on how good they are with dramatic writing. A lot of people can really tend to go nuts with making their stories as "grimdark" as possible (blood and dirt everywhere!, DEATH!, break that little boy!, rape that cutie!, kick that dog!, ...this list goes on) - thinking that if they can artificially increase the grittiness of their settings as far as they could, then their stories would somehow suddenly become more "interesting" to watch.
As far as how a creator could handle such controversial subjects... I guess it would depend on how good they are with dramatic writing. A lot of people can really tend to go nuts with making their stories as "grimdark" as possible (blood and dirt everywhere!, DEATH!, break that little boy!, rape that cutie!, kick that dog!, ...this list goes on) - thinking that if they can artificially increase the grittiness of their settings as far as they could, then their stories would somehow suddenly become more "interesting" to watch.
MKID232
435
I'm glad I'm not one of those people.
Now if you don't mind, I'm off on my neverending search for a furry convention near here. /jk...or is it? :O
Now if you don't mind, I'm off on my neverending search for a furry convention near here. /jk...or is it? :O
What I don't understand is why the the gaming community tried to use the release of SCMRPG and the resulting controversy and media coverage to argue for the mainstream acceptance of videogames as a legitimate way of dealing with these subjects.
Surely if you wanted to be taken seriously, you would centre your arguments around a game that tackled these with maturity and care so that you (and subsequently the entire gaming community) wouldn't be made to look completely idiotic in the media.
\\Back on Topic
To be honest, there are so few RM games that resort to tastlessness for tastelessness' sake that I personally think it's a non-issue. I think that the majority of the community is perfectly capable of judging a game based on it's merits and shortcomings and that if a game is fun and made well, it'll do well. If the creator can tackle difficult subjects in an interesting and sensitive way, then the community should take that into account when they form their opinions.
Surely if you wanted to be taken seriously, you would centre your arguments around a game that tackled these with maturity and care so that you (and subsequently the entire gaming community) wouldn't be made to look completely idiotic in the media.
\\Back on Topic
To be honest, there are so few RM games that resort to tastlessness for tastelessness' sake that I personally think it's a non-issue. I think that the majority of the community is perfectly capable of judging a game based on it's merits and shortcomings and that if a game is fun and made well, it'll do well. If the creator can tackle difficult subjects in an interesting and sensitive way, then the community should take that into account when they form their opinions.
