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NOW A TOPIC ABOUT CHARACTER DESIGN.
Posts
Komodo Gallant
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CloseIn my opinion, character design is one of the most important aspects of video games- unless, of course, you've got something like the Halo series or a MMORPG where your audience creates it's own character.
What are some game characters you've liked in the past? It can be anything about their appearance or personality that especially stood out to you, and made them memorable. Moreover, what do you focus on when you create your own characters? One of my personal favorites was Ferris from Final Fantasy Five, if only because they actually gave a girl character high hp. And why not? She'd been living with pirates on a ship all her life, of course she would have built up some serious durability. Which reminds me; it's much better to be realistic about your characters than to stick to normal expectations.
For me, empathy is the most important aspect of the main character. His or her reactions to any tragedies or victories they may face in the game need to be the most realistic- in my opinion, of course. Which ties into the writing aspect of character design.
Do art and writing have equal value in character design? And what are your thoughts on how both should be used to their fullest potential?
Let's talk away.
What are some game characters you've liked in the past? It can be anything about their appearance or personality that especially stood out to you, and made them memorable. Moreover, what do you focus on when you create your own characters? One of my personal favorites was Ferris from Final Fantasy Five, if only because they actually gave a girl character high hp. And why not? She'd been living with pirates on a ship all her life, of course she would have built up some serious durability. Which reminds me; it's much better to be realistic about your characters than to stick to normal expectations.
For me, empathy is the most important aspect of the main character. His or her reactions to any tragedies or victories they may face in the game need to be the most realistic- in my opinion, of course. Which ties into the writing aspect of character design.
Do art and writing have equal value in character design? And what are your thoughts on how both should be used to their fullest potential?
Let's talk away.
Darken
3952
I really enjoyed the cast in Half Life 2, especially Alyx. The facial expressions and amazing voice acting really put the characters in their place. In episode 1 and 2, Alyx would make remarks that really related to me and made me laugh. I think a good character in a video game is one who can relate and cooperate with you.
Another character I'd like to note would have to be Scatha from The Way. Her accent, background, theme song, and appearance made her different from alot of other characters. One good example of a uniqe character.
Probably the best enemy character I love was Psycho Mantis, he was a psychotic asshole who murdered so many innocent people. Yet after defeating him (most interesting boss fight ever), I felt bad for killing him because he could have been a better person if he lived.
Another character I'd like to note would have to be Scatha from The Way. Her accent, background, theme song, and appearance made her different from alot of other characters. One good example of a uniqe character.
Probably the best enemy character I love was Psycho Mantis, he was a psychotic asshole who murdered so many innocent people. Yet after defeating him (most interesting boss fight ever), I felt bad for killing him because he could have been a better person if he lived.
yamata no orochi
184
Final Fantasy VI and Chrono Trigger had some of the most iconic characters in video games. Also of note are Talan and Kersh from A Blurred Line and basically the entire cast of the Way.
All the characters above are easily distinguished from other characters, and have their own theme songs and stuff. But I wouldn't underestimate the importance of creating your own characters--in Hero's Realm, for example, your characters really take on a life of their own, though they're all just job classes really.
All the characters above are easily distinguished from other characters, and have their own theme songs and stuff. But I wouldn't underestimate the importance of creating your own characters--in Hero's Realm, for example, your characters really take on a life of their own, though they're all just job classes really.
Suikoden! Hello...? Each Suikoden game has a connection to the other, being that they are all based in the same world, just at different times. And in each you'll find out more about the characters from the before or after games. Take Suikoden Two and Four for example. In SII you meet Maximillion of the Maximillion Knights. In SIV you meet the original founders of the Knights.
And this is turning into a rant about the awesomeness of Suikoden.
:on topic jump:
Actually getting to know and care about a character can be hard in amateur games, usually due to inept dialogue, cookie-cutter characters and/or no character development. There are some games that are well done in this aspect, though.
The Way series, as mentioned. Love and War. Clouded Heart. Home Far Away. Hero's Realm (it's the mirror comments, I swear. ^.^). FF High. War of two Worlds. Three: The Hard Way - okay, that one made me cry.
All these I think are pretty good amateur games that use good characterisation.
All time favourite character? Katt: Breath of Fire II. She's just so spunky! ^.^
And this is turning into a rant about the awesomeness of Suikoden.
:on topic jump:
Actually getting to know and care about a character can be hard in amateur games, usually due to inept dialogue, cookie-cutter characters and/or no character development. There are some games that are well done in this aspect, though.
The Way series, as mentioned. Love and War. Clouded Heart. Home Far Away. Hero's Realm (it's the mirror comments, I swear. ^.^). FF High. War of two Worlds. Three: The Hard Way - okay, that one made me cry.
All these I think are pretty good amateur games that use good characterisation.
All time favourite character? Katt: Breath of Fire II. She's just so spunky! ^.^
yamata no orochi
184
Yeah, Clouded Heart did have good characters. Especially the Raven, both because of
the enormous plot twist near the end of the game and
the fact that you get to play as him just before he
dies.
Etrian Odyssey is cool because you can make your own cutscenes in your mind. HR is a little different because the demons are like HU HU HU YOU COME TO DESTROY ME and all that... EO does no such of a thing, at least where I am. Not even a little bit of possible motivation is suggested for your party; NPCs only tell you to "go there to get the Hauberk mmmkay????"
On the other side of the ledger: I remember Brick once noted in one of his articles or reviews or something that everybody hates Selphie because she's annoying. This makes her a good character because you have reasons to think so based on her actions and emotions, not just LOLBUBBLYGIRL. He also states that you can take any two FF8 PCs and imagine the conversation that could happen between them.
To expand on that, I recently began replaying Xenosaga III. While I'm skipping most of the cutscenes, I've been watching enough to remind myself of several neat dialouges between unexpected characters: Jin and Allen, for example, have a series of discussions throughout the game. In most RPGs, Allen would talk to Shion and Shion only since she is the love interest/protagonist and he is just a silly NPC. Instead, he actually talks with the PCs on a regular basis. Other random yet somewhat important NPCs get scenes with random characters, making everyone seem much more alive and realistic. The exception is KOS-MOS, who really only talks to Shion and chaos (and only a little bit to the latter). This works, though, since she's an "emotionless" android with a really high STR stat.
And finally, an aside about Farris! She is also my favorite FF5 character but usually has low HP due to being a thief, time mage or dancer 99% of the time. Lenna, however, really likes switching between the monk and dragoon classes (although right now she's a black mage with the lance ability... heh heh heh...). As for character design.... Well, in FF5A they really nailed Butz's and Galuf's dialouge down! <3
On the other side of the ledger: I remember Brick once noted in one of his articles or reviews or something that everybody hates Selphie because she's annoying. This makes her a good character because you have reasons to think so based on her actions and emotions, not just LOLBUBBLYGIRL. He also states that you can take any two FF8 PCs and imagine the conversation that could happen between them.
To expand on that, I recently began replaying Xenosaga III. While I'm skipping most of the cutscenes, I've been watching enough to remind myself of several neat dialouges between unexpected characters: Jin and Allen, for example, have a series of discussions throughout the game. In most RPGs, Allen would talk to Shion and Shion only since she is the love interest/protagonist and he is just a silly NPC. Instead, he actually talks with the PCs on a regular basis. Other random yet somewhat important NPCs get scenes with random characters, making everyone seem much more alive and realistic. The exception is KOS-MOS, who really only talks to Shion and chaos (and only a little bit to the latter). This works, though, since she's an "emotionless" android with a really high STR stat.
And finally, an aside about Farris! She is also my favorite FF5 character but usually has low HP due to being a thief, time mage or dancer 99% of the time. Lenna, however, really likes switching between the monk and dragoon classes (although right now she's a black mage with the lance ability... heh heh heh...). As for character design.... Well, in FF5A they really nailed Butz's and Galuf's dialouge down! <3
Black Mage with lance ability- that's why I loved that game. And yes, I agree on the dialogue being great! There's been many things said in the thread about dialogue already, but I hope to add to it- it is a great thing when done correctly, it can build and demonstrate the characters in ways nothing else can. A game with bad dialogue will thusly have bad characters, and maybe visa versa. (Sega, anybody?)
I've heard so much about Suikoden, and never have been able to get a copy of any of the games. I know Seiken Densetsu, my all-time favorite snes game, (or maybe a close tie with EVO) but not Suikoden. I feel ashamed, probably because I should be.
From Seiken Densetsu 3, I grew attached to... all the characters. Angela, Hawk and Carlie were my first group, I grew to love them all. They all had such unique backstories that tied into the world so beautifully... I loved how each character's story revolved around the same goal in so many different ways.
It sounds like a lot of people are mentioning characters from the games posted here. I'm new, so I haven't had the chance to play them all yet- I'll look into them, though, I suppose I should have at least seen the classics to be a better contribution to the site.
And as for Final Fantasy- yep, that's one thing they've certainly done right over the years. Even Final Fantasy X, which I didn't enjoy as much as I wanted to, had some characters I really appreciated. Except for Yuna and Tidus, they can go die. In hell. But I suppose, a lot of the time, that's what sells the game- especially in RPGs. If you get a character that people will love enough to play through the game and buy the sequel for.... you're 'made in the shade', as they say. As long as not too much else is screwed up.
I've heard so much about Suikoden, and never have been able to get a copy of any of the games. I know Seiken Densetsu, my all-time favorite snes game, (or maybe a close tie with EVO) but not Suikoden. I feel ashamed, probably because I should be.
From Seiken Densetsu 3, I grew attached to... all the characters. Angela, Hawk and Carlie were my first group, I grew to love them all. They all had such unique backstories that tied into the world so beautifully... I loved how each character's story revolved around the same goal in so many different ways.
It sounds like a lot of people are mentioning characters from the games posted here. I'm new, so I haven't had the chance to play them all yet- I'll look into them, though, I suppose I should have at least seen the classics to be a better contribution to the site.
And as for Final Fantasy- yep, that's one thing they've certainly done right over the years. Even Final Fantasy X, which I didn't enjoy as much as I wanted to, had some characters I really appreciated. Except for Yuna and Tidus, they can go die. In hell. But I suppose, a lot of the time, that's what sells the game- especially in RPGs. If you get a character that people will love enough to play through the game and buy the sequel for.... you're 'made in the shade', as they say. As long as not too much else is screwed up.
Reives
1087
I haven't played many RPGs myself so I don't have much insight, but emotional attachment is certainly a necessity at one point at least with one of the characters. The advantage with the main character is that it's relatively easy to have them to feel more personal, as the player can see their past and whatnot if needed, and hence understand omnisciently. But personally, I actually like it more when the emotional bond is stronger with a supporting character rather than the main character him/herself.
And you should leave that sprite that was there at the first post initially on, Komodo. It was really neat - I loved how the hair was shaded.
And you should leave that sprite that was there at the first post initially on, Komodo. It was really neat - I loved how the hair was shaded.
maladroithim
1495
This guy has excellent character design because his pants are missing their butt.
And yes I do believe that is a guy :(
Illustrious
520
I think I will go with a candidate unlikely to be mentioned here. That would be Steiner from FFIX. He is great from his oafish character design to his exaggerated gestures. I also like the way he is funny while not intending to be. His character symbolizes that you just look silly when you take yourself too seriously. His personality falls outside the realm of most archtypes I see in rpgs, unless you want to be banal and call him "the goofy one".. but that would not give this character enough credit. The "goofy guy" archtype usually comes off a lot more forced than Steiner, especially when used in most amature rpgs I have seen.
I am the only one I know who thinks FFIX is the best of the series, I wonder why it went wrong with so many people. My guess is Kuja, who seems like he wishes he could be as bad as Sephiroth (And spews out some of the most cliche lines you can imagine).
I am the only one I know who thinks FFIX is the best of the series, I wonder why it went wrong with so many people. My guess is Kuja, who seems like he wishes he could be as bad as Sephiroth (And spews out some of the most cliche lines you can imagine).
Reives
1087
author=brandonabley link=topic=683.msg9265#msg9265 date=1203307506I was just gonna ask. . .
And yes I do believe that is a guy :(
@Reives- Thank you, but I realized a topic about my works in progress wasn't a very nice thing to litter the forum with. ^^. Here's the link to the images, though;
http://i25.tinypic.com/23iv4zr.jpg
http://i31.tinypic.com/2db6l8y.jpg
@Brandonabley- XD. What is is with video games and buttless pants? The outfit is well-designed, though, with nice color balance.... and a dynamic pose to set it off, wouldn't you know? ..But what's all this fuss about him looking like a girl? I can tell it's a guy, easily.
While we're on the topic of androgynous characters... they appear a lot in Japanese games for a good reason; in the Edo period, it was common for male youths to be "pretty"- they often played female roles in dramas, because women were banned from the stage. Look at the Visual-Kei genre in today's music, and it's readily apparent that Japan's society has no problem with androgyny. Western influences may be changing this, as for some reason a lot of people here are "OMG HE LOOKS LIEIK A GIRL FAAAAGS RAQWR", because apparently they have some problem with men not being covered in 500 pounds of muscle and hair...
...>>. Oh, look at that. A rant. I wonder where that came from? What, me? Couldn't have been.
@Illustrious- You know, you're right. To this day, I've never seen another character quite like him. He remains unique, and I admit he was nice to have around. He didn't get much time in my party, but the game would have suffered without him. :3
http://i25.tinypic.com/23iv4zr.jpg
http://i31.tinypic.com/2db6l8y.jpg
@Brandonabley- XD. What is is with video games and buttless pants? The outfit is well-designed, though, with nice color balance.... and a dynamic pose to set it off, wouldn't you know? ..But what's all this fuss about him looking like a girl? I can tell it's a guy, easily.
While we're on the topic of androgynous characters... they appear a lot in Japanese games for a good reason; in the Edo period, it was common for male youths to be "pretty"- they often played female roles in dramas, because women were banned from the stage. Look at the Visual-Kei genre in today's music, and it's readily apparent that Japan's society has no problem with androgyny. Western influences may be changing this, as for some reason a lot of people here are "OMG HE LOOKS LIEIK A GIRL FAAAAGS RAQWR", because apparently they have some problem with men not being covered in 500 pounds of muscle and hair...
...>>. Oh, look at that. A rant. I wonder where that came from? What, me? Couldn't have been.
@Illustrious- You know, you're right. To this day, I've never seen another character quite like him. He remains unique, and I admit he was nice to have around. He didn't get much time in my party, but the game would have suffered without him. :3
maladroithim
1495
author=Komodo Gallant link=topic=683.msg9271#msg9271 date=1203309262
But what's all this fuss about him looking like a girl? I can tell it's a guy, easily.
For those of us who do not frequent transvestite bars it is very difficult to make the distinction. See: platform sandals.
author=Komodo Gallant link=topic=683.msg9271#msg9271 date=1203309262
Western influences may be changing this, as for some reason a lot of people here are "OMG HE LOOKS LIEIK A GIRL FAAAAGS RAQWR", because apparently they have some problem with men not being covered in 500 pounds of muscle and hair...
As long as the Japanese pick on our country for being overweight I will pick on their country for being full of prettyboys. Aside from that, the number of ridiculous prettyboys trolling Japanese streets is not nearly as high as you would assume from playing videogames. Friends of mine who have stayed in Japan have commented on this. And, based on the Japanese foreign exchange students at my college (there are lots), in general they tend to wear more hair gel but otherwise their fashion is not too far removed from America's.
Are you kidding me? It's just tall shoes... I can still tell the difference. :/. Wearing tall shoes does not make one a girl, and just because that's something women do normally in western cultures doesn't mean that a character whose design is influenced by other cultures necessarily has to adhere to that. Moreover, I don't see a problem with it. I hope you don't mind, but I could say that was a pretty narrow-minded observation.
Anyway, it's not like I'm saying Japan's streets are full of gorgeous men- and it would be silly of me to claim so, I've never been there. (And I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to go, too expensive to travel to.) The whole thing about "cross-dressing" and androgyny was more common way back when than it is now- probably, today the only place you'll see it in such full force is in the VK musical genre I mentioned. But I think the whole negative outlook on androgyny in the west is silly. Not that every guy should go wearing buttless pants or skirts or do their hair up fancy or something like that, because really it doesn't matter what gender you are; if you look hideous in it, don't wear it. But I say that if a guy can pull it off and looks fairly presentable, it's none of my business.
Western Influence started a long time ago, too, so it's not like I was pointing out a recent change or anything... ^^;.
But hey, thanks for adding this new topic to the discussion. I hope I didn't sound rude at all up there, I appreciate that you're willing to argue your standpoint.
Anyway, it's not like I'm saying Japan's streets are full of gorgeous men- and it would be silly of me to claim so, I've never been there. (And I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to go, too expensive to travel to.) The whole thing about "cross-dressing" and androgyny was more common way back when than it is now- probably, today the only place you'll see it in such full force is in the VK musical genre I mentioned. But I think the whole negative outlook on androgyny in the west is silly. Not that every guy should go wearing buttless pants or skirts or do their hair up fancy or something like that, because really it doesn't matter what gender you are; if you look hideous in it, don't wear it. But I say that if a guy can pull it off and looks fairly presentable, it's none of my business.
Western Influence started a long time ago, too, so it's not like I was pointing out a recent change or anything... ^^;.
But hey, thanks for adding this new topic to the discussion. I hope I didn't sound rude at all up there, I appreciate that you're willing to argue your standpoint.
Darken
3952
I think we can all agree the worst character designs in terms of appearence are the pretty boys who have no backstory as to why they look like a girl, they're just made for the sole purpose of fangirls.
Remember when the first screenshots of Final Fantasy 13 was released? I had a hard time seeing if Lightning was a girl or not, eventually Square had to tell us it was a she.
Remember when the first screenshots of Final Fantasy 13 was released? I had a hard time seeing if Lightning was a girl or not, eventually Square had to tell us it was a she.
Well, Lightning is proof that the game will have no/terrible writing.....
I mean, amnesia!? I might expect that from Sega, but.... ><
But you're right; every character's appearance should make some sense when tied into their setting and back story. If you have androgynous characters, androgyny should be something normal in the character's home setting. It's the same reason you don't want a character that is a solider to wear an extravagant costume; soldiers should look rugged and relatively uniform. Unless of course they're high-up, like Cecil from Final Fantasy.. (three, was it? I forget.)
Final Fantasy is a bad example, because it has a lot of characters that wear these really neat-looking outlandish outfits for no good reason. Seven was pretty good at that, until you got to Vincent.
Why the hell is the arm made of gold!?
On the other hand, though.... the main character is the one you're going to be staring at for the whole game. They should have something interesting that sets them apart from the people and scenery around them. So they have to be special enough to keep the audience's attention, but not too special.
And fanservice? Personally, I have nothing against it. They used fanservice very well with Motoko's character in Ghost in the Shell without ruining anything. Well, until they got to the second season. Something bad happened there, I swear.
Fangirls, however, I have issues about. Only the bad ones, though. Those are scary.
I mean, amnesia!? I might expect that from Sega, but.... ><
But you're right; every character's appearance should make some sense when tied into their setting and back story. If you have androgynous characters, androgyny should be something normal in the character's home setting. It's the same reason you don't want a character that is a solider to wear an extravagant costume; soldiers should look rugged and relatively uniform. Unless of course they're high-up, like Cecil from Final Fantasy.. (three, was it? I forget.)
Final Fantasy is a bad example, because it has a lot of characters that wear these really neat-looking outlandish outfits for no good reason. Seven was pretty good at that, until you got to Vincent.
Why the hell is the arm made of gold!?
On the other hand, though.... the main character is the one you're going to be staring at for the whole game. They should have something interesting that sets them apart from the people and scenery around them. So they have to be special enough to keep the audience's attention, but not too special.
And fanservice? Personally, I have nothing against it. They used fanservice very well with Motoko's character in Ghost in the Shell without ruining anything. Well, until they got to the second season. Something bad happened there, I swear.
Fangirls, however, I have issues about. Only the bad ones, though. Those are scary.
Reives
1087
Oh, that reminds me. I find it quite a nice touch when the character changes outfit now and then. It almost makes up for the lack of bathing during the entire epic quest.
