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Closetardis, knowing which key items you have is useful in non-linear exploration games. It works as a "oh right, I haven't used this OXYALE yet, hmmm..." tool.
I guess you could just have a quest journal, but how can you have a quest if you don't know what to do with something, exactly?
I guess you could just have a quest journal, but how can you have a quest if you don't know what to do with something, exactly?
Dark Gaia
3474
Take the OXYALE to Maia and use it to visit the Sunken Shrine. There you will fight Kraken and restore the Water Orb.
post=208986
Take the OXYALE to Maia and use it to visit the Sunken Shrine. There you will fight Kraken and restore the Water Orb.
*Gaia
It's GAIA. You should know this, DARK GAIA. Also, that's not all you do in the Sunken Shrine. You have to travel up a few floors to get the Rosetta Stone for Dr. Unne.
Dark Gaia
3474
Yes, that's right! It's Maia in the NES version though (pretty sure anyway). Just as Coneria became Cornelia. Forgot about the Rosetta Stone though; shows how long it's been since I played FF1.
post=207006
thats it from now on all my games will begin with a huge explosion
It worked for Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy! ;)
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Come on now, Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy began with a guy in pajamas trying to get bulldozers to stop destroying his house. The huge explosion wasn't until 10 or 15 minutes later.
I think your intro should be however long it takes to set the tone for your game. It shouldn't have many details, but it should definitely tell the player enough to make them not wonder what the hell kind of game they're playing. If you explain the political setting, they're going to expect a game that focuses on political strife. If you show the main character's hometown, they're going to expect a story about a character's journey as he learns about the world. If you show a flashback to 1000 years ago, they're going to expect a story about mankind's repeated mistakes. If you show the main character murdering an innocent person, they're going to expect a story about his crimes and his attempts at redemption.
What you choose to show sets the tone for your game. Pick something appropriate, and show enough of it to make the player understand what they're seeing. Then save the rest for later.
I think your intro should be however long it takes to set the tone for your game. It shouldn't have many details, but it should definitely tell the player enough to make them not wonder what the hell kind of game they're playing. If you explain the political setting, they're going to expect a game that focuses on political strife. If you show the main character's hometown, they're going to expect a story about a character's journey as he learns about the world. If you show a flashback to 1000 years ago, they're going to expect a story about mankind's repeated mistakes. If you show the main character murdering an innocent person, they're going to expect a story about his crimes and his attempts at redemption.
What you choose to show sets the tone for your game. Pick something appropriate, and show enough of it to make the player understand what they're seeing. Then save the rest for later.
Blitzen
3253
Narratively, you should enter the story just before if not at the moment where the central problem of the story begins. For dramatic effect, this should be the biggest problem they've ever had to face in their entire lives, and it should be the most important thing they ever do. Introduce the main character and give them something important and exciting to do! Case in point: FF7 you are Cloud blowing up the Mako Reactor. FF6 you are mind-controlled-Terra invading Narshe. FFT you are Ramza and the town is invaded by thugs. This approach would let you set up the conflicts and themes of the story
Gameply wise, if your game is complex, it helps to start with a tutorial. I find that if you show people the neat features of your game right off the bat, they will spend the rest of thier time with the game finding out how to use them so they can beat the game.
Gameply wise, if your game is complex, it helps to start with a tutorial. I find that if you show people the neat features of your game right off the bat, they will spend the rest of thier time with the game finding out how to use them so they can beat the game.
post=209130
Narratively, you should enter the story just before if not at the moment where the central problem of the story begins. For dramatic effect, this should be the biggest problem they've ever had to face in their entire lives, and it should be the most important thing they ever do. Introduce the main character and give them something important and exciting to do! Case in point: FF7 you are Cloud blowing up the Mako Reactor. FF6 you are mind-controlled-Terra invading Narshe. FFT you are Ramza and the town is invaded by thugs. This approach would let you set up the conflicts and themes of the story.
I think only FF13 really did this. FF7 started long after the inciting problem; he already thought he was someone else at that point. The big question doesn't come until like Disc 3, FF6 when you're a mind-controlled chick there's not much big choice there, and FFT was a very slow intro. It's true the opening battle showcased Gafgarian tossing evil-eye-sword-beams around... but this is so long after tons of boring text and birthday setting. And the opening is a real snore, just some dudes on chocobos. (PSP fixed this moderately)
After the battle, you're sent back in time to another bout of slow text. I love FFT... but definitely not for the opening.
Really? I didn't mind FFT's intro.
To that end, I don't think an RPG necessarily needs ACTION ACTION ACTION in its opening or merely as a tool to keep player interest. Sure, an RPG needs gameplay, since it's a game, but it doesn't necessarily need action (which is different from gameplay). Some RPGs are designed to be slower paced, more relaxed, narrative experiences, and I can definitely appreciate that. I love action to death don't get me wrong, but at the same time I feel sort of patronized when it's given to me just to 'sedate' me into playing or something.
To that end, I don't think an RPG necessarily needs ACTION ACTION ACTION in its opening or merely as a tool to keep player interest. Sure, an RPG needs gameplay, since it's a game, but it doesn't necessarily need action (which is different from gameplay). Some RPGs are designed to be slower paced, more relaxed, narrative experiences, and I can definitely appreciate that. I love action to death don't get me wrong, but at the same time I feel sort of patronized when it's given to me just to 'sedate' me into playing or something.
lol nothing in fft is boring unless you are one of those IM A GAMER I NEED TO PRESS BUTTONS NOW OH GOD I LOVE TO RPESS BUTTON
Crystalgate
694
post=209205
Really? I didn't mind FFT's intro.
To that end, I don't think an RPG necessarily needs ACTION ACTION ACTION in its opening or merely as a tool to keep player interest. Sure, an RPG needs gameplay, since it's a game, but it doesn't necessarily need action (which is different from gameplay). Some RPGs are designed to be slower paced, more relaxed, narrative experiences, and I can definitely appreciate that. I love action to death don't get me wrong, but at the same time I feel sort of patronized when it's given to me just to 'sedate' me into playing or something.
I don't think RPGs need to start with action either, but I do think it's usually a good idea to get there soon. Besides, if a game starts with the action and is still boring, then I know I can delete it.
Blitzen
3253
Actually, I would argue that FF7's intro comes at the perfect point in the narrative. Cloud, already thinking that he is someone else, off of Shinra's radar, is essentially starting from Square One (pun intended). He could've laid back and stayed off the radar, but the actions he takes from then on form the basis of the rest of the narrative: the story of revealing the truth about the past.
FFT's intro comes at a point where the Princess is kidnapped, and Ramza, now a bottom-of-the-barrell mercenary, realizes that his old pal Delita is alive. Not only does this prompt him to go and solve the mystery of what's going on, it also gives us a basis to revisit the establishing events up to that point.
I think that as entry points to the story, they both stand fairly well.
FFT's intro comes at a point where the Princess is kidnapped, and Ramza, now a bottom-of-the-barrell mercenary, realizes that his old pal Delita is alive. Not only does this prompt him to go and solve the mystery of what's going on, it also gives us a basis to revisit the establishing events up to that point.
I think that as entry points to the story, they both stand fairly well.
I'm right on board with you Darken. Hooks are the way to go! In depths systems can be great and all, but if there is no hook to get me going in the beginning, then I can get annoyed going through tutorials about all the game's great features. Controlling character soon in the intro is a must too.
-CM
-CM
- Always include a dynamic opening cutscene that introduces the game's conflict or a portion of the conflict. Leave some mystery about the conflict so your game is interesting leading up.
- Make sure that the main hero is promptly introduced. As well, have the answers to these questions about the main hero (or heroes) addressed in one way or another, but never directly -
How do they connect to the story?
What can they do to stop the conflict?
Why them?
How are they affected by the conflict?
What does solving the world's greatest problem do for them?
- What is important is that the game be exciting AT the start, not FROM the start. There need always be that calm after the start.
- Make sure that any opening cutscene is not long. People get bored fast and want to indulge in gameplay.
What not to do-
- Do not begin a game with a calm boring start, unless you have a big bad cutscene soon to follow.
- Do not have a lot of dialogue. As a side note, do not begin a game with verbosity. So many games do both of these, and I am instantly turned off.
- Do not have a long, lagging cutscene that is self-indulgent and may confuse/bore the player out of inquiring as to what your game is about.
- Do not tutor the player before the game's story is introduced. Tutorials can be tactfully placed after the cutscene.
- Make sure that the main hero is promptly introduced. As well, have the answers to these questions about the main hero (or heroes) addressed in one way or another, but never directly -
How do they connect to the story?
What can they do to stop the conflict?
Why them?
How are they affected by the conflict?
What does solving the world's greatest problem do for them?
- What is important is that the game be exciting AT the start, not FROM the start. There need always be that calm after the start.
- Make sure that any opening cutscene is not long. People get bored fast and want to indulge in gameplay.
What not to do-
- Do not begin a game with a calm boring start, unless you have a big bad cutscene soon to follow.
- Do not have a lot of dialogue. As a side note, do not begin a game with verbosity. So many games do both of these, and I am instantly turned off.
- Do not have a long, lagging cutscene that is self-indulgent and may confuse/bore the player out of inquiring as to what your game is about.
- Do not tutor the player before the game's story is introduced. Tutorials can be tactfully placed after the cutscene.
Lennon
88
I agree for the most part, only I think that in some very rare cases, slow openings can be pulled off well. The thing is, slow openings can't also be long ones, cause that's when problems arise. I also don't think the main character needs to have a reason for being there right from the start. Sometimes it's better to have the player and the character learn why at the same time and pace.
post=Lennon
I agree for the most part, only I think that in some very rare cases, slow openings can be pulled off well. The thing is, slow openings can't also be long ones, cause that's when problems arise. I also don't think the main character needs to have a reason for being there right from the start. Sometimes it's better to have the player and the character learn why at the same time and pace.
There are exceptions to every rule. About the questions that we subconsciously ask of the hero and his role in the story, some answers may come early, some may come late. I think the synergy between the hero and A villain needs to be established early in the game as well.
this is ESSENTIALLY the intro to evolution 2, but it's impossible to find any youtube shit from the original evolution games. this is from the gamecube remake that combined both evolution games. really only the first minute of this video is important.
the lesson here is TRAIN ATTACKS ARE ALWAYS COOL.
Clest
0
I think the beginning must present the core of gameplay really soon and exihibit the best of its graphics and visuals while still showing the player a problem/quest that must be pursued, be it the main quest or just some small but interesting task that will make the player want to complete/solve.
It is good to give some setting information but nothing like Xenogears with 3 full screens of text in a black background talking about places with weird names which you forget by the time you talk to the npcs in the contry village the main gero lives, ironically the villahe is apart from all events mentioned in the introduction until a bit later :)
However Xenogears also serves as an example of great game with very bad intro.However it doesn´t work like that for free games, most of the time if you screw up the intro AND it is long ppl will give up.
Another thing that bothers me is when intro feels deceiving, what I mean is: Intro shows a lot of cool places, cool images and stuff, then the game shifts quickly to something tottally different. Sure it can be a good surprise if I didn´t like what was shown in the intro (but then I might not see the rest to get the good surprise) but if I like the intro I will be very disapointed.
As an example, Star Ocean 1 and 2 are VERY DAMN DISAPPOINTING for me: All the ships, space stations and tech in the intro just to be thrown in a low tech fantasy setting and even having my cool techy weapons being switchted to traditional stuff.
I do like medieval fantasy settings, a lot, but the game led me to believe something else by the intro...
It is good to give some setting information but nothing like Xenogears with 3 full screens of text in a black background talking about places with weird names which you forget by the time you talk to the npcs in the contry village the main gero lives, ironically the villahe is apart from all events mentioned in the introduction until a bit later :)
However Xenogears also serves as an example of great game with very bad intro.However it doesn´t work like that for free games, most of the time if you screw up the intro AND it is long ppl will give up.
Another thing that bothers me is when intro feels deceiving, what I mean is: Intro shows a lot of cool places, cool images and stuff, then the game shifts quickly to something tottally different. Sure it can be a good surprise if I didn´t like what was shown in the intro (but then I might not see the rest to get the good surprise) but if I like the intro I will be very disapointed.
As an example, Star Ocean 1 and 2 are VERY DAMN DISAPPOINTING for me: All the ships, space stations and tech in the intro just to be thrown in a low tech fantasy setting and even having my cool techy weapons being switchted to traditional stuff.
I do like medieval fantasy settings, a lot, but the game led me to believe something else by the intro...
