Full Games List
Featured Games
New Games
Reviews
Media
Images
Blogs
Game Updates
Images Feedback Summary
Game Design Highlights
Tutorials
Articles
Scripts
Utilities / Plugins
Resources
Engines
Engine Bulletins
What is Makerscore?
Past Events
Achievements
Misaos
Forums
Post History
Chat
New to RMN?
Full Store List
RMN Music Pack (free)
COOLDOWNS
Posts
Rowan
131
Rowan
View playlists
CloseCooldowns
According to Wikipedia, Cooldowns are the minimum length of time that the player needs to wait after using an ability before they can use it again. In MMO's (particularly WoW) some of the most powerful abilities usually have a 4 second to whatever minute cooldown. Obviously, these are implemented for balancing reasons; however if used correctly, they offer a great deal of depth in terms of proper ability management. Unfortunately, because of the nature of cooldowns, they're also seen as an essentially forced way to get players to use different moves.
What do you think of using moves with cooldowns outside the MMO world?
For example; what if Ultima, one of FF's most powerful skills, had a 2 turn cooldown? (You cannot use this move during the next 2 turns.)
TheNecromancer
3160
Final Fantasy 11 has a huge cool down move for every job. 2 hours. You can bet they kick major ass though.
It's an interesting concept to use in RPG's. I think it would be a welcome change from battle as usual. Make a move have a great effect but you can't spam it. Most games suffer from just spamming the strongest thing so that would be a great deterrent from doing that.
It's an interesting concept to use in RPG's. I think it would be a welcome change from battle as usual. Make a move have a great effect but you can't spam it. Most games suffer from just spamming the strongest thing so that would be a great deterrent from doing that.
Billwilliams
1159
So we're talking about each character having one or more power abilities that can only be used once per battle or maybe even once per inn stay?
post=208900No, more like a skill that, when used, has to be allowed to cool down for so many turns before it may be used again.
So we're talking about each character having one or more power abilities that can only be used once per battle or maybe even once per inn stay?
I don't mind cooldowns but sometimes I don't get them either, I mean, they are a nice mechanic and all, but how exactly do they work when, say, after casting Fire 2 you cannot use it again for the next two rounds but you can use Fire 4 right away? Does the mage get a mental block and forgets the specific magic words to cast Fire 2 but it's perfectly lucid to cast any other spell? ...well, maybe I'm looking too much into it, but in any case that's why I prefer delay times, casting times, and the such to spice up battles a little bit.
Billwilliams
1159
Maybe if each spell had a chance of stunning the mage or leaving them vulnerable in some way. Certain more powerful spells would have a greater chance of this. This way there would be more to consider when picking a spell than just it's MP cost.
Kaempfer
1932
It's a good idea, and it's been implemented in various ways over the ages. In a SECRET MUCH ANTICIPATED PROJECT NOONE KNEW I WAS WORKING ON, your AP (MP, effectively) refreshes at a set rate, so using a powerful skill over and over is impossible. In this case, the cooldown is spread over all of your powerful skills, since they draw from the same pool.
Compare to Warp Gates in Starcraft II- Protoss units appear instantly, but the more powerful the summoned unit, the longer the cooldown until you can summon any unit from that Warp Gate. Summon weaker units first and it'll be less time until you can flesh out your forces with those powerful ones, whereas doing the opposite makes no sense (unless you need them RIGHT NOW).
I like it when games have cooldowns for ALL skills based on which skill you just used, since it means you can use combinations of weaker skills for greater impact where needed. For instance, Ultima can inflict high damage to everyone, but in the time it takes to cool down you could use weakness to fire-fire-fire-cure team, and although only one enemy has taken any damage, he's taken a lot more and your team is cured up.
Games that use specific cooldowns for single moves just end up being macro fests- people just use skills in an exact order and never deviate from that. The single worst thing about MMOs in the mindless repetition in all aspects, including combat. Cooldowns across the board encourage the player to use whichever tactics will work best against a group of enemies. A group of middling powered enemies? Wipe them out with one strong skill. A group of enemies that will survive that shot? Maybe don't just blast it right away, since it'll leave you waiting for 18 seconds.
Compare to Warp Gates in Starcraft II- Protoss units appear instantly, but the more powerful the summoned unit, the longer the cooldown until you can summon any unit from that Warp Gate. Summon weaker units first and it'll be less time until you can flesh out your forces with those powerful ones, whereas doing the opposite makes no sense (unless you need them RIGHT NOW).
I like it when games have cooldowns for ALL skills based on which skill you just used, since it means you can use combinations of weaker skills for greater impact where needed. For instance, Ultima can inflict high damage to everyone, but in the time it takes to cool down you could use weakness to fire-fire-fire-cure team, and although only one enemy has taken any damage, he's taken a lot more and your team is cured up.
Games that use specific cooldowns for single moves just end up being macro fests- people just use skills in an exact order and never deviate from that. The single worst thing about MMOs in the mindless repetition in all aspects, including combat. Cooldowns across the board encourage the player to use whichever tactics will work best against a group of enemies. A group of middling powered enemies? Wipe them out with one strong skill. A group of enemies that will survive that shot? Maybe don't just blast it right away, since it'll leave you waiting for 18 seconds.
Rowan
131
Another relatively well-known example of an ability with a cooldown is the move "Hyper Beam" from pokemon. It's a very powerful normal-type move with high base power; however, the use of this move causes strain on the pokemon and it is unable to do anything after the turn it uses it.
(Because of this, the move isn't that good. But that's another topic.)
(Because of this, the move isn't that good. But that's another topic.)
LOL I slid the button... nothing happened.
I think they are annoying if you are a player, but useful if you are a developer... so if you can think like one you know exactly why you need it.
To make the game FAIR and HARDER and MORE INTERESTING and MORE ADDICTING
Try and find those loopholes to use different attacks and such
I think they are annoying if you are a player, but useful if you are a developer... so if you can think like one you know exactly why you need it.
To make the game FAIR and HARDER and MORE INTERESTING and MORE ADDICTING
Try and find those loopholes to use different attacks and such
TheNecromancer
3160
post=208906
Games that use specific cooldowns for single moves just end up being macro fests- people just use skills in an exact order and never deviate from that. The single worst thing about MMOs in the mindless repetition in all aspects, including combat.
That's too much of a generalization about MMO's. That may be true for WoW, but in FFXI that is not the case. There are some 30 second, 1 minute, 2 minute, 5 minute, 10 minute abilities. Not including spells which have various cooldowns. Not only do you have cooldowns to worry about but you have to balance your hate. Not all abilities are attack abilities and some are only used in between battles. Even if you could just mindlessly spam your moves in the same order, you would probably die because you gained too much hate. Monsters are at least 6 levels above you and would kill you in a handful of hits, you have to be anything but mindless. As Dark Knight you have some stun abilites, and you don't just use them as soon as they are ready. You save them for when the monsters is going to do some big damaging skill and you Stun it to cancel that ability. The cooldown prevents you from spamming it but at the same time you have to strategize.
So yeah, until you've played every MMO please be careful how you word things. (not that im saying your talking about WoW or that I even know what WoW is like or any other MMO for that matter. But I would say FFXI is an exception to your statement)
Arian Wild's battle demo has this: http://rpgmaker.net/games/1743/downloads/
I can think of at least two of my battle systems that already use it.
I can think of at least two of my battle systems that already use it.
Yeah, Karsuman and I's project uses cooldowns. There are ways to lower cooldown time or remove it altogether, as well.
I like them because you can't spam stuff, which, like mentioned previously, makes some games mindless. As for "oh noes I can't use Fire 2 but I can use Fire 4" - I think that's how it could work effectively in some projects. Yeah, you can't use Firaga for a while, so you need to supplement with Fira.
I like them because you can't spam stuff, which, like mentioned previously, makes some games mindless. As for "oh noes I can't use Fire 2 but I can use Fire 4" - I think that's how it could work effectively in some projects. Yeah, you can't use Firaga for a while, so you need to supplement with Fira.
Dark Gaia
3474
I like that idea; rather than make the skill unusable completely, replace it with a fundamentally weaker version. As Craze said, it's making the player use Fira instead of Firaga.
It could be handled in the context of the game by saying that the mages need to recover their strength or whatever, and their spells are weaker in the meantime.
It could be handled in the context of the game by saying that the mages need to recover their strength or whatever, and their spells are weaker in the meantime.
Zephyr
1241
Final Fantasy IV DS has the opposite approach or what to say. Instead there's the casting time before executing depending on the power of the spell or summon.
This is more widely used than just FFIVDS, but that was the first I came to think of.
This is more widely used than just FFIVDS, but that was the first I came to think of.
Dark Gaia
3474
FFVIII had that with summons too. After you selected a summon, the ATB would run in reverse and if you were hit hard enough while casting the summon could be killed entirely.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Unfortunately, because of the nature of cooldowns, they're also seen as an essentially forced way to get players to use different moves.See, that's the opposite of what I think they do. I would have said cooldowns are a great way to force players to use different moves.
Oh, wait, that is what you said. Except with "great" instead of "unfortunate". Hmm.
No, but seriously. No one wants to play a game where the best strategy is to just mash one button the entire time.
MP costs do kind of the same thing, but in a more long-term sense instead of an immediate sense. You can use cooldowns instead of MP costs, or alongside MP costs.
For a *really* fun resource management puzzle, try putting cooldowns on healing spells.
I have an energy regeneration system implemented into battles of my games... which I suppose is sorta the same except it's dependent on 'turns' instead of 'seconds' or 'mins'. It forces players to use a variety of moves instead of their most powerful one each turn, and keeps you from constantly tapping x or spacebar.
Cooldowns are a decent way of encouraging variety in the actions a player takes during combat, and also a balance mechanism. I'm a fan.
Crystalgate
694
I don't think cooldowns by itself makes the game more varied. Sure, the player cannot any longer spam the same skill over and over, but chance is the player will instead spam the same cycle of skills over and over, something I don't consider a big improvement. On the other hand, if one game uses the standard MP system while another uses a cooldown system, then that's at least variety between two games, so I definitely approve of some games using a cooldown system. Still, if cooldowns were to become a new standard (highly unlikely) then I don't think that would actually improve anything.
