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Posts
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
Corfaisus
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CloseOnce I go to "advanced algebra", I felt right then and there "alright, time to throw in the towel." Nothing's worse than someone making you feel that your time spent doing something you enjoy was time wasted.
author=Blitzen
I felt that there was no real practical advice in the "So you wanna be a game designer" video. It was as though it gave you all the ingredients for a recipe but no instructions. It's kind of a hollow list of traits, "know ur maths past advanced algebra, also be good at talking to people," without any sense of how to apply them.
I can't imagine any game involving more than advanced algebra (unless you are the programmer, heh) but you should probably know algebra before attempting to make a video game...
But this may just be my interpretation. I'm someone who has a certain perspective and interest in aspects of game design(academic but also practical), but for everything I do know about game design in theory and practice, I felt it really taught me nothing, not because I had already heard what he had to say (although its the same sort of one-liners that are thrown around) but because there was flawed logic behind his presentation of them. Not all "great games" are Bioshock, not all great game designers know anything about math, myth, or fundamental psych for that matter.
The thing is, all great game designers DO know about math and psyche, even if they don't realize it.
1) Math is used in virtually every video game, from points in Tetris to HP in Final Fantasy to how far Mario can jump and how fast Sonic can run. Knowing and abusing the mathematical limits of your character is how people beat games.
2) A large portion of fundamental psyche is about reward/punishment and how it affects people. In other words - fun. While you may not have formally "studied" psyche, you are probably using it to make your games, and people who make great games know how fun works - teaching their player through rewards, and creating an enjoyable game.
The OoT deconstruction was more practically useful. In terms of revealing design principles and emparting skills, it's analysis of OoT dungeon design was concise and direct, and shows you how episodic progression is tied to environmental design in a particular way to enhance playability, exercise problem solving, and keep the game from breaking itself. Very insightful.
Well of course, but that's because the OoT deconstruction is an application of the theories presented in this video.
You're right about the video, it's vague and unapplied theory, but that doesn't mean it's bad. It's a good overview of what the title Game Designer entails. Just because you like playing games does not mean you will like being a game tester, and just because you want to make a video game does not mean you will like being a game designer. I do agree that the whole "crafting an experience" thing was overkill.
Game Design is about applying ideas practically to create fun games, and I think this video got that point across.
P.S. There are a TON of good articles on the site involving more applied game design theory for anyone interested, including the" FUNdamentals of RPGs" series and almost any article by TheRealBrickroad.
P.S.S.
http://rpgmaker.net/articles/23/ (FUNdamentals of RPGs Part I)
http://rpgmaker.net/users/The%20Real%20Brickroad/articles/ (TheRealBrickroad's articles)
eplipswich
2728
author=Yeasterauthor=LockeZThat was kind of harsh. lol Some people (like me) aren't at all interested in game design, and just fool around with RPGM to past the time when they don't have anything else to do.
If you have any intention of ever making real games, this is really helpful. If you're content with screwing around by yourself in RPG Maker for the rest of your life, not so much.
That's pretty much his point really. You're only just fooling/screwing around with RPGM. This video is useful for those who are "serious" in becoming a game designer. Not so for those who's just restricted to RPGM. Still useful but not so much.
author=Blitzenauthor=slashphoenixI felt that there was no real practical advice in the "So you wanna be a game designer" video. It was as though it gave you all the ingredients for a recipe but no instructions. It's kind of a hollow list of traits, "know ur maths past advanced algebra, also be good at talking to people," without any sense of how to apply them.author=BlitzenI'm curious, care to elaborate?
In my opinion, everything was preachy and practically useless.
Not every game is an "experience" in the sense that the guy in the video was talking about. Some games have more in common with "tic-tac-toe" than they do with Ayn Rand underwater. It is clear form the video that has conception of "the game" skews towards the latter, especially in the video about diversity in video games where he sort of mockingly references Frontierville.
But this may just be my interpretation. I'm someone who has a certain perspective and interest in aspects of game design(academic but also practical), but for everything I do know about game design in theory and practice, I felt it really taught me nothing, not because I had already heard what he had to say (although its the same sort of one-liners that are thrown around) but because there was flawed logic behind his presentation of them. Not all "great games" are Bioshock, not all great game designers know anything about math, myth, or fundamental psych for that matter.
The OoT deconstruction was more practically useful. In terms of revealing design principles and emparting skills, it's analysis of OoT dungeon design was concise and direct, and shows you how episodic progression is tied to environmental design in a particular way to enhance playability, exercise problem solving, and keep the game from breaking itself. Very insightful.
Remember Socrates who talked to the leading men in his society and realized they knew nothing, and then talked to craftsmen and realized they had more "knowledge" than the others? Reminds me of this. We can learn more from post-mortems and desconstructions of real-world examples than we can from airy talk about what we "should" do.
You're way exaggerating. Like what Kentona said, this is just a 7-min video that gives people the "general idea"/"kickstart" on whether one is suited to be a game designer. One can say more so of "a guide for Dummies". Just basing it on that perspective alone, it is actually a pretty good video.
Oh, and this video is a lot more about how to survive in the game design industry rather than game design theories.
while I wouldn't go as far as "aspire to become a real game designer", I would say "want to take their hobby somewhat seriously"
Crystalgate
694
Why though? Did he give you any practical reason why you should enhance your knowledge of music theory? What god deos it do when you're trying to design a classical RPG? But then maybe I deconstrcuted it a bit too much, idk open to rebuttals.
I don't know about music theory, but you definitely want a good feel for music. Whenever you choose a music for a situation, the music has to match the atmosphere you want to convey. I do sometimes see RPGM games where the music is good on it's own, but doesn't really fit.
Anaryu
8848
This is like a guidebook on where you can focus to improve yourself and tips on common pitfalls.
It also addresses a lot of what I felt were common RM community issues:
1. The importance of the concept of the game
2. The "designer" is a director (Needed for project: Scripter, Artist, Spriter, Writer, Mapper, Databaser, I'm the concept guy so I'll just tell you all what to do and we'll have a great game!)
3. Changing scope and it's effect on ever getting things done (cost of time/money; time is the 'currency' we hobbyists use most)
4. What other practical skills should be sharpened to help answer questions like "How do I build this platforming level?" or "How should I map this dungeon? What kinds of puzzles should I use?"
5. The 'designer' of the game is the one who masterminds the whole game (when you're the designer, artist, musician, and mapper this is hard to identify with - in our community many of us are jacks-of-many-trades, so we don't understand what working with a team really entails)
6. Communication and working with team - too often the more people you have the less change of a project being completed (I've seen many cases where someone, usually artist or programmer, was 'kicked' or 'left' the team because they didn't agree with the designers decisions on how their skills should be applied - they want and deserve a say in the design by having some free will as well but don't get it)
Past the tips that are like giant "Damn, it's so obvious yet it's one of the most common screw-ups in our RM communities" section, the skills listed are things that are important when you're 'designing' a game - I researched music a bit more and learned about melody lines and tones and I'm realizing just how much there is to music I didn't know (I knew there was a lot, but there's a lot of practical knowledge there that lets you make better decision.)
Just knowing about those and what they are has made a huge impact on my ability to choose music; I now know when to pick a song with a powerful melody line and how to identify what music is better for times where I want the music to NOT stand out in the players mind.
A lot probably shrugged off the psychology aspect there, but check out how visible (I wouldn't say popular!) Calunio's games became with their strong psychology focus and soul-rending game-play themes. That stuff isn't accidental.
See, we all think we're great designers, but there is so much there we can still learn - yet we try so hard to close our eyes to all of it.
And all to often even if we know what we should do, we lose sight of it and get bogged down in the moment and end up forgetting or glossing over important things.
Most of us can't take criticism for a damn, rarely finish anything, don't play test outside our friends (if at all), and use the excuse of "it's not the finished product" when we show demos. When we're faced with an opportunity to learn we nitpick and make excuses instead of trying to grow.
If you didn't immediately see at last 3-4 things you could improve about your design aspects from that video, then you're so amazing you don't belong in the RM community - go make AAA games or at least move on to more experienced and main-stream game development site, you'll be a prodigy there.
It also addresses a lot of what I felt were common RM community issues:
1. The importance of the concept of the game
2. The "designer" is a director (Needed for project: Scripter, Artist, Spriter, Writer, Mapper, Databaser, I'm the concept guy so I'll just tell you all what to do and we'll have a great game!)
3. Changing scope and it's effect on ever getting things done (cost of time/money; time is the 'currency' we hobbyists use most)
4. What other practical skills should be sharpened to help answer questions like "How do I build this platforming level?" or "How should I map this dungeon? What kinds of puzzles should I use?"
5. The 'designer' of the game is the one who masterminds the whole game (when you're the designer, artist, musician, and mapper this is hard to identify with - in our community many of us are jacks-of-many-trades, so we don't understand what working with a team really entails)
6. Communication and working with team - too often the more people you have the less change of a project being completed (I've seen many cases where someone, usually artist or programmer, was 'kicked' or 'left' the team because they didn't agree with the designers decisions on how their skills should be applied - they want and deserve a say in the design by having some free will as well but don't get it)
Past the tips that are like giant "Damn, it's so obvious yet it's one of the most common screw-ups in our RM communities" section, the skills listed are things that are important when you're 'designing' a game - I researched music a bit more and learned about melody lines and tones and I'm realizing just how much there is to music I didn't know (I knew there was a lot, but there's a lot of practical knowledge there that lets you make better decision.)
Just knowing about those and what they are has made a huge impact on my ability to choose music; I now know when to pick a song with a powerful melody line and how to identify what music is better for times where I want the music to NOT stand out in the players mind.
A lot probably shrugged off the psychology aspect there, but check out how visible (I wouldn't say popular!) Calunio's games became with their strong psychology focus and soul-rending game-play themes. That stuff isn't accidental.
See, we all think we're great designers, but there is so much there we can still learn - yet we try so hard to close our eyes to all of it.
And all to often even if we know what we should do, we lose sight of it and get bogged down in the moment and end up forgetting or glossing over important things.
Most of us can't take criticism for a damn, rarely finish anything, don't play test outside our friends (if at all), and use the excuse of "it's not the finished product" when we show demos. When we're faced with an opportunity to learn we nitpick and make excuses instead of trying to grow.
If you didn't immediately see at last 3-4 things you could improve about your design aspects from that video, then you're so amazing you don't belong in the RM community - go make AAA games or at least move on to more experienced and main-stream game development site, you'll be a prodigy there.
NicoB
3071
I thought it was a rather interesting "Getting Started" for game design. I watched a few other videos, and I found another that I think really applies to us in particular, seeing as a majority of us make RPGs in some shape or form.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2487-The-Skinner-Box
This, I feel, points out some of the numerous recycled methods companies (and many of us) use to keep players interested, and why so many games are incorporating RPG elements these days.
EDIT: Also, it had this image, which was hilarious.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2487-The-Skinner-Box
This, I feel, points out some of the numerous recycled methods companies (and many of us) use to keep players interested, and why so many games are incorporating RPG elements these days.
EDIT: Also, it had this image, which was hilarious.
cho
0
it's hard to take anything on the escapist seriously when their biggest claim to fame is fucking yahtzee croshaw
Jericho
52
he's an asexual weirdo who made a game where a guy takes advantage of an emotionally distraught woman and the claimed the woman done did the raping oh and also his hat is stupid qed
Irili
3198
Those are some very good points. The basic understanding of grammar is the best part in my opinion. I know mistakes happen (trust me, I'm a wonderful example of grammar mistakes) but I'm thinking back to papers my friends have asked me look at and I still can't think about it without a grimace of pain. Go Grammar!
physhal
0
author=Jericho
he's an asexual weirdo who made a game where a guy takes advantage of an emotionally distraught woman and the claimed the woman done did the raping oh and also his hat is stupid qed
Which game is that? I've played all of them and that doesn't sound familiar.
Atmaweapon
179
I found the video to be fantastic.
Here is why:
First off, the video reminds us that the term "designer" is often thrown about casually as a term for a sort of God of a particular game. What mean is this; I consider myself an amateur game designer. However, I do not work in a team. This is because I have a very distinct view and idea of what I want my games to be. And so, I am the god of my game, so to speak. Not only do I design it... I also produce it, deal with the programming, the audio, the writing, etc, etc. Were I to begin a career as a video game designer, I would not do all of these things. There is a reason that the credits at the end of a game or movie have so many names.
Next, after being reminded of this, I realized that I am a lone person. Unique. My idea for what I feel would be fantastic may be hated by another. This, I must accept. And as someone who, as the video so eloquently described, translates and delivers experiences from myself to my audience, I must be careful to make what I convey understandable to an audience and not just myself or people like me. This, after all, was my original intent when I realized it was my dream to make video games. I remember the time spent, emotions felt, and lessons learned as I played through well-made games. Games that gripped us with story, character development, and fun mechanics.
The video reminded me of my purpose as a designer.
It also made me more aware of the deadline I set for myself and that I would, in the end, have to cut the fat on some of my ideas to make sure the game was actually good rather than boring or long-winded.
Here is why:
First off, the video reminds us that the term "designer" is often thrown about casually as a term for a sort of God of a particular game. What mean is this; I consider myself an amateur game designer. However, I do not work in a team. This is because I have a very distinct view and idea of what I want my games to be. And so, I am the god of my game, so to speak. Not only do I design it... I also produce it, deal with the programming, the audio, the writing, etc, etc. Were I to begin a career as a video game designer, I would not do all of these things. There is a reason that the credits at the end of a game or movie have so many names.
Next, after being reminded of this, I realized that I am a lone person. Unique. My idea for what I feel would be fantastic may be hated by another. This, I must accept. And as someone who, as the video so eloquently described, translates and delivers experiences from myself to my audience, I must be careful to make what I convey understandable to an audience and not just myself or people like me. This, after all, was my original intent when I realized it was my dream to make video games. I remember the time spent, emotions felt, and lessons learned as I played through well-made games. Games that gripped us with story, character development, and fun mechanics.
The video reminded me of my purpose as a designer.
It also made me more aware of the deadline I set for myself and that I would, in the end, have to cut the fat on some of my ideas to make sure the game was actually good rather than boring or long-winded.
Pladough
163
http://www.auntiepixelante.com/?p=465
Stuff like this is more useful. The article shows how the first stage of Mario is designed. It's only like the first few minutes of the stage, but it's still a good read.
Yeah, I know we deal with a different genre of game, but I think spreading around what makes good design will ultimately improve the games out there.
Stuff like this is more useful. The article shows how the first stage of Mario is designed. It's only like the first few minutes of the stage, but it's still a good read.
Yeah, I know we deal with a different genre of game, but I think spreading around what makes good design will ultimately improve the games out there.
Yoshio
774
i'm so terrible at grammar that i've been asked if english is my second language multiple times (it isn't)
most of the skills there are things i don't have honestly (math grr!) the ideas i choose to implement or the decisions i make have alot more to do with "this is what i personally like, this is what i would find fun, i don't have the ability/knowledge to do anything else atm so i'll just do this" i've had alot of interesting ideas that i later totally scrapped cause they'd be too hard
of course, i've never once considered getting serious about this stuff, just in this to have fun with the maker
most of the skills there are things i don't have honestly (math grr!) the ideas i choose to implement or the decisions i make have alot more to do with "this is what i personally like, this is what i would find fun, i don't have the ability/knowledge to do anything else atm so i'll just do this" i've had alot of interesting ideas that i later totally scrapped cause they'd be too hard
of course, i've never once considered getting serious about this stuff, just in this to have fun with the maker
author=Blitzen
he sort of mockingly references Frontierville.
I can't watch the video yet, but if they mock Frontierville, this video loses all creditability... Facebook games aren't really my thing, but considering how many people play those cookie cutter Farmville games, you cannot dispute the quality of the game. It's just too addictive to be 'bad' design.
