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VX'S DASH FEATURE
Posts
Dark Gaia
3474
Dark Gaia
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CloseFirstly, I wasn't sure exactly where to start this thread, as it's a somewhat trivial and seemingly dry topic, so sorry to the staff if I've broken any rules.
I'm interested in knowing what people think about games that deliberately turn the dash feature in RPG Maker VX off. I've seen some people complain that it's a stupid idea to disable the dash function, but users of RPG Maker XP and RM2k/3 have had to put up with a static walking speed for ages, so is it really such a bad idea?
The reason that I ask is because my current project (Undying Eternal) relies heavily on atmosphere to immerse the player into the game, and I find that if players rush through an area they won't really have time to soak up the scenery and the music etc. Thus, I want to disable the dash for this reason. Of course, the cost of disabling the dash means that backtracking through locations or travelling through less engaging areas becomes monotonous.
Opinions? Is the dash really needed?
I'm interested in knowing what people think about games that deliberately turn the dash feature in RPG Maker VX off. I've seen some people complain that it's a stupid idea to disable the dash function, but users of RPG Maker XP and RM2k/3 have had to put up with a static walking speed for ages, so is it really such a bad idea?
The reason that I ask is because my current project (Undying Eternal) relies heavily on atmosphere to immerse the player into the game, and I find that if players rush through an area they won't really have time to soak up the scenery and the music etc. Thus, I want to disable the dash for this reason. Of course, the cost of disabling the dash means that backtracking through locations or travelling through less engaging areas becomes monotonous.
Opinions? Is the dash really needed?
Pokemaniac
3559
No, not if you put the speed fast to begin with.
But people will ALWAYS complain about slow walk speeds. ALWAYS.
But people will ALWAYS complain about slow walk speeds. ALWAYS.
Dark Gaia
3474
Well, the default non dashing walk speed is not particularly slow. You would be able to move at the speed of a typical RM2k/3 or XP character. If this is the case, should the dash feature be an essential feature of the game?
Pokemaniac
3559
I think the VX walk speed is a little slower than normal without dash, isn't it? If not, then go for it.
Dark Gaia
3474
Hmm... I just tested the two engines side by side and yes, it's a tad slower. So I'll just increase it slightly to match the default RM2k/3 speed and it should be fine.
Yeah, I'm doing this - mainly because I need the Shift key for something else. To combat this, I'm being very careful to have tight maps and minimal random battles. I don't want to up the speed because the maps are pretty small to start with, though I may enable a toggle key so that you can choose to have run on or off.
Plus, holding the damn dash key messes up my game sometimes.
Plus, holding the damn dash key messes up my game sometimes.
Dark Gaia
3474
And it also artificially ramps up the play time!
But yeah, like Liberty, part of my reason is that the maps are fairly compact and they're also fairly linear too, so I don't want the player rushing through them. I suppose I should decrease random encounters, or use touch encounters. I do intend to make sure that the player does not need to backtrack often, or only needs to backtrack a small distance. Or else, I'll implement a way to "fast travel" to places where they have already been.
Also, for some reason, for me, the fact that you can only walk at one speed gives the game a dinky die old school feel.
But yeah, like Liberty, part of my reason is that the maps are fairly compact and they're also fairly linear too, so I don't want the player rushing through them. I suppose I should decrease random encounters, or use touch encounters. I do intend to make sure that the player does not need to backtrack often, or only needs to backtrack a small distance. Or else, I'll implement a way to "fast travel" to places where they have already been.
Also, for some reason, for me, the fact that you can only walk at one speed gives the game a dinky die old school feel.
I just swapped what dash does: You run at default speed and shift moves at half speed. I expect nobody will ever notice on account of never having to slow down
Pokemaniac
3559
author=GreatRedSpiritI too did this(well actually I just flicked a switch on with Melody but same diff, right?)
I just swapped what dash does: You run at default speed and shift moves at half speed.I expect nobody will ever notice on account of never having to slow down
Dark Gaia
3474
That's kind of like what the later Final Fantasy games do. You run by default and hold triangle button to walk. But I think that's useless. If you've made the fast speed the default, why would people want to slow down?
I want them to move slowly, so I'm taking away the ability to go fast.
I want them to move slowly, so I'm taking away the ability to go fast.
Well, I remember a few mini-games where you had to walk instead of run. Mainly creeping around enemy bases or hunting ones. There was another game where running would make it more likely that you get ambushed as opposed to ambushing the enemy. Also mine/trap checking in dungeons.
WolfCoder
3554
author=Dark Gaia
...
Opinions? Is the dash really needed?
The speed at which the player moves should match the scale at which you make your maps.
WolfCoder
3554
Exactly! Especially if they're compact and full of important detail. I hate games that are really fast paced yet have lots of useful things lying around easily missed because of that.
Dark Gaia
3474
And that's exactly why I want them to go slow - I've left a lot of atmospheric scenery to soak in. I don't want them just rushing through and missing it.
I almost always take out dashing, but raise the default speed to something much higher.
The only time I left it in purposefully was for V&V, where you had to dodge enemy encounters - running made them chase you from farther away.
The only time I left it in purposefully was for V&V, where you had to dodge enemy encounters - running made them chase you from farther away.
I'm not a fan of slowing down walk speed to try and force the player to soak up the scenery/ambiance but I am physically unable to get immersed in these things so I am probably not going to offer anything of help when making a horror game 
Could shoot for a middle ground, keep the walk speed slow but not too slow. Adjust the walk speeds and their multipliers so you can hit a good middle ground between "slow enough to soak up what's around the player" and "not slower than molasses". I've got a script (somewhere) that was all about playing with the hero, NPC, and vehicle speeds if you need it. I just have to find it.
Too bad you still hold shift for 95% of the game! Should've had it fast and far chase by default and the 5% of the time when you wanted to reduce the provoke range you could hold shift and babbystep your way around them.
(I may have started watching your Everlasting Journey LTs)
vvvv
Don't we all *insert link to list of shame*
Could shoot for a middle ground, keep the walk speed slow but not too slow. Adjust the walk speeds and their multipliers so you can hit a good middle ground between "slow enough to soak up what's around the player" and "not slower than molasses". I've got a script (somewhere) that was all about playing with the hero, NPC, and vehicle speeds if you need it. I just have to find it.
author=Craze
The only time I left it in purposefully was for V&V, where you had to dodge enemy encounters - running made them chase you from farther away.
Too bad you still hold shift for 95% of the game! Should've had it fast and far chase by default and the 5% of the time when you wanted to reduce the provoke range you could hold shift and babbystep your way around them.
(I may have started watching your Everlasting Journey LTs)
vvvv
Don't we all *insert link to list of shame*
Darken
3952
I don't know why forcing the player to slow down has any impact on how the player takes in the atmosphere. Good atmosphere is when the player actually stops and looks at something, or takes curiosity in some of the visual areas. I could backwalk/sidestep myself through OoT to make things faster, but I choose not to because I like going through hyrule field like a normal person (even then the runspeed is pretty good). Slow walk speed by default is just bad because even if you make the maps small, any amount of backtracking or walking back due to a gameover just makes everything functionally tedious. Make shift: "walking mode."
tldr: Don't worry, people aren't going to speedrun through your game. If they do, your "amazing atmosphere" probably didn't interest them in the first place.
tldr: Don't worry, people aren't going to speedrun through your game. If they do, your "amazing atmosphere" probably didn't interest them in the first place.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I think it's stupid to have to hold down the B button for the entire goddamn game. What's the point? Why not make that the normal speed?
You can have a walk button if you want. Lots of games do that. It makes way more sense, because people want to move at the faster speed 99% of the time. You can then make some puzzles that require it... or don't, either way.
When running through a dungeon, I think running makes sense. Maybe your game doesn't have traditional dungeons, and every area is very compact; but if you have dungeons, make the player move fast enough to not be awful. You can always make the player move at a slower speed during cut scenes, which is, I assume, where most of the ambiance and meaningful detail comes out in a horror game. And I assume you'll have quite a lot of cut scenes, so the player will often be stopped.
You can have a walk button if you want. Lots of games do that. It makes way more sense, because people want to move at the faster speed 99% of the time. You can then make some puzzles that require it... or don't, either way.
When running through a dungeon, I think running makes sense. Maybe your game doesn't have traditional dungeons, and every area is very compact; but if you have dungeons, make the player move fast enough to not be awful. You can always make the player move at a slower speed during cut scenes, which is, I assume, where most of the ambiance and meaningful detail comes out in a horror game. And I assume you'll have quite a lot of cut scenes, so the player will often be stopped.
