MAKING RMN MORE ORGANIC & SEXY (MAINLY ORGANIC)

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I have actually been thinking about this for quite some time, but in light of recent events, I feel that this is an appropriate time to bring it up.

The idea I am proposing will shake up how submissions work around here. Yeah, it'll require some more coding and all that fancy hooplah, but I think it has the potential to bring RMN closer to what people envision it to be.

Correct me, but from what I've always understood, it was a goal for RMN to be an organic site that more or less runs itself. That's why the staff don't have shiny names anymore, the amount of shiny people has gone down, and why those who are shiny don't flaunt that they're shiny. The idea I'm proposing would take this a step further and make RMN even closer to being "user-run," while (hopefully) reducing the amount of Blockland incidents around the site.

This idea is stolen borrowed inspired by another website that's really badass: Newgrounds. They have a submission format that works and could be a great feature for our site as well. Keep in mind that this is not my proposed plan, but the way Newgrounds runs it. Certain factors I feel would need changing and there's probably junk I'll completely overlook. (That's where your feedback comes in.)

For those of you who aren't familiar with how Newground submissions work, let me break it down:
- Users submit their shit in and it enters the submission queue, much like how it goes here. Difference is, the queue is public, so everyone is going to see the new submissions as they roll in.
- Other users check out the submission through this special queue. After reviewing the submission, the user gives it a rating based on its merits.
- After a submission receives a number or ratings, it is accepted or rejected based on its score. Anything that receives a decent score is accepted. (Honestly, I haven't been frequenting the site much recently, so the details on this part are probably fuzzy.)
- Users are able to comment on the submissions at this time, as well, so ratings don't go without some wordsy feedback.
- Finally, and possibly most importantly, users who are dipshits with their ratings and downvote or upvote everything they come across will slowly lose voting power. Basically, if you're too nice or too mean, it will reflect in your voting power based on what happens to the submission (accepted or rejected). This encourages users to really vote based on its actual merits instead of lame shit. This voting power is public on a user's profile, so everyone knows if your definition of quality work is screwy.

I believe that covers pretty much all there is to the system, as far as I can tell. Thing is, RMN is not Newgrounds and what works for NG will not necessarily work for us. Changes will have to be made to make sure this system suits the site and the community, otherwise it'll just be a detriment to the goals we have.

Changes/Alternatives That Have Come To My Head As I Typed This Up:
- Ratings can be kind of arbitrary at times. I know some people are not a fan of the star system attached to reviews, so it may be more appropriate for games in this queue to have a different format. Instead of a star rating, users could either vote "Accept" or "Reject" with the option of attaching a comment to their vote.
- With Newgrounds, the game's creator and score is completely public. With the goal of making people vote as fairly as possible, it may be a good idea to make submissions anonymous and to keep the games current submission score/comments hidden.
- Even though this will make the site more organic, I'm not suggesting the elimination of staff. Having staff around to keep an eye on things is still a good idea. One of the modifications I would make to NG's system to accommodate our site's standards is having whoever still messes with the submission queue just look over submissions, make sure they meet the bare minimum (three screenshots, one paragraph, whatever that shit is), and send it to the public queue for judgment.
- Going along with the staff thing again, it might be a good idea for them to review the more "deviant" submissions that receive an excessive amount of good or bad scores. They would basically make sure that 20 jerks didn't get to the game at once, preventing its chance at a fair judgment. If the deviant submission is really worthy of whatever judgment it received, though, the staff would just clear it off their list and whatever happens happens. If there is a chance that the submission did just have shitty, shitty luck, the game could be kicked back into the queue for another chance. (Obviously, limits would have to be put into place to prevent staff from potentially abusing this extra life for submissions.)

I believe that just about covers everything I wanted to suggest. It is pretty late, though, so I may change this post to add/fix shit as I figure it all out. Have at it.
I doubt at this point in the game the admins are looking to give more power to the people. WIP just threatened to take away the Moronic forum.

not a bad idea though. I would add:

Even with member feedback, staff still has to accept the game. There should not be auto acceptance. Too easy to abuse.
I agree with Link. Staff would have to have the last say. Otherwise, spam accounts would be created to get a game accepted or rejected.
Why, why. Restrictions in the voting system, you can only vote if you have 60 days on the website and x posts and stuff, and this is very, very cliche. Should be a problem no longer, you know.
I really, really doubt that this is going to happen anytime soon. Not to say anything bad about them, but I don't think the staff trusts the community enough to put that kind of stuff in their hands.
Well, the biggest difference between here and Newgrounds is that the content on NG is much more easily consumable than RPGs. So it is much more likely on NG to have far more people give input on a work than it is on RMN. This leads to much smaller sample sizes for ratings at RMN, which is more prone to extreme ratings and I don't know how you'd get around that barrier here.
WIP
I'm not comfortable with any idea that can't be expressed in the form of men's jewelry
11363
Oh if it's organic you want, just hold on to your butts.

In response to the idea, I don't really mind it! It's kind of an interesting take on an approval queue. But as kentona said, the content here is definitely harder to consume than what Newgrounds offers.
The issue of the spam accounts is addressed on Newgrounds by preventing multiple votes from the same IP for submissions. Yeah, there are certain situations that would make things lame for legit people, but it fixes the problem to a degree. If someone is extremely determined, they would have to change their IP constantly so their bot accounts would be able to vote, but even if that did happen, that's why I suggested the "Deviant Submissions" thing. That way, the staff does check out the sites that have entirely too positive or negative reviews to ensure the votes are valid. Also, Seraph's suggestion makes a lot of sense too, while also promoting more involvement from newer members.

I won't deny that this isn't going to be a perfect solution for every aspect of the site. For example, I probably wouldn't recommend having this sort of system in place for the actual downloads for a game, because (as you guys said) the content is much harder to digest. I think for things like game pages, tutorials, and junk like that it could definitely be beneficial for us, as that material doesn't take long to look over and make a good opinion.

Great points, guys. Looking forward to more input.
I wouldn't think this kind of system is needed for tutorials/articles. There doesn't seem to be any problems with the quality of stuff coming through there. It's much easier to read the whole thing quickly and evaluate it as a whole, as opposed to playing a new download for 30 mins and trying determine it's overall goodness.

The main issue appears to be game pages(games). The only problem I see with this system is that some people just aren't experienced enough, artistically inclined....trying not to sound elitist(wait, do I care if do?)....some people just can't be trusted in their opinion. They don't know what having standards means, they don't fully understand what constitutes a good game as a total package. They think that just because they had fun with a terrible looking game and laughed at it's vulgar immature jokes it deserves 5 stars. Any game, no matter how fun and innovative, that has terrible MS paint scribbled graphics does not deserve 5 stars. I can accept 4 stars, but not 5. 5 means absolutely perfect, cannot be improved upon. Not that I have a specific example, but there are a few games with 5 star reviews that after a second opinion from someone who has proven they know a thing or two about games scores it really low. Some kids just don't understand the implications of giving 5 stars to a sub-par game.

That's just my opinion, feel free to disagree. I would be more comfortable in a community that has appointed judges who know what quality is to perform quality control. Even if that means we come off as elitist jerks. I don't think it's a good idea to change the system to allow for lower quality stuff to stream in based on popular demand. I know I'm not the only one that likes to be surrounded by competent people and sheltered from noobish kids who have yet to figure out how to be a functioning member of a community.
Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9159
Oh if it's organic you want, just hold on to your butts.


Was this MEANT to be a pun?
it means that he's planning on unleashing a mass redesign of RMN unto us unsuspecting masses.
I've never quite understand what organic means. Does it mean you grow things yourself?
its ALIVE. so it'll grow and morph on its own. kind of like a mold.

vs. inorganic. Like a stone.
author=kentona
it means that he's planning on unleashing a mass redesign of RMN unto us unsuspecting masses.


Well, I'm scared
JERICHO SAYS: Has that "Important" sign in orange text always been there? I just noticed it today when I clicked on it by accident while heading for the forums. Not very eye-catching for something that is important in any case~
It's been there for about a year or so. Sometimes there is nothing set as Important and then nothing is there.
YDS
member of the bull moose party
2516
rmn

trader joes version
What I've found is post youtube vids that link back to your game. Then you get players as opposed to RPG maker community.
Yeah. But I make shitty videos (both quality and content-wise - mostly quality wise)
Puddor
if squallbutts was a misao category i'd win every damn year
5702
Ask someone else to make a trailer. I'm sure your legion of fans would be willing =w=)b.
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