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START YOU AT LEVEL 35 AND RESET YOU TO LEVEL 1
Posts
Sam
2200
Sam
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CloseHey guys, first of all, yes, I am alive. Second of all, I was thinking of opening my game with the party at levels 34, 37 and 35 respectively, having the player go through a dungeon area kicking arse and taking names, and reach the boss. At this point in the game the boss will, in this order
1 - Overpower you
2 - Strip you down to level 1, removing all your abilities and equipment
3 - Toss you off his airship
From there on out the game's structure would be similar to that of a normal RPG, you slowly gain your levels again, buy your weapons again, relearn your skills, and so on and so forth.
As for why I'm considering opening the game this way, it shows the player the kind of powers and abilities they'll get to play with, let's them learn how the game is going to work. It also allows me to get straight to some action and get the player engaged straight off the bat. By then taking the powers away, the player has a reason to hate the villain, has a reason to fear the villain as they got their arses handed to them, and knows the potential of each one of their characters.
Of course it could backfire, throw the player off, then make the player simply stop playing and leave the room when they're demoted.
What do you guys think?
1 - Overpower you
2 - Strip you down to level 1, removing all your abilities and equipment
3 - Toss you off his airship
From there on out the game's structure would be similar to that of a normal RPG, you slowly gain your levels again, buy your weapons again, relearn your skills, and so on and so forth.
As for why I'm considering opening the game this way, it shows the player the kind of powers and abilities they'll get to play with, let's them learn how the game is going to work. It also allows me to get straight to some action and get the player engaged straight off the bat. By then taking the powers away, the player has a reason to hate the villain, has a reason to fear the villain as they got their arses handed to them, and knows the potential of each one of their characters.
Of course it could backfire, throw the player off, then make the player simply stop playing and leave the room when they're demoted.
What do you guys think?
Zephyr
1241
Sounds nice.
But won't the player fear meeting this person sometime later in case he might use the same tactic?
Difference now would be that you've actually leveled it yourself.
But won't the player fear meeting this person sometime later in case he might use the same tactic?
Difference now would be that you've actually leveled it yourself.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
author=WolfCoder
Hello .Hack//GU
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
Final Fantasy Legends (2?)
What else? I'm sure there's been at least 20 that we could mention.
Needless to say, it's proven to be a "hardy har har" kick in the teeth, time and time again.
Natook
1000
author=Corfaisus
What else? I'm sure there's been at least 20 that we could mention.
all metroid games
Just make a game that gives you regressive experience points from level 35ish where you try to avoid as many battles as possible so that you won't get weaker. BUT TO GET REAL EXP is from the final Boss.
Or simply: TIMELIMIT>TIME IS RUNNING OUT>GRAB POWERUP>+20 SECONDS
Except, RPG form. (I'm just pissing out ideas don't pay attention to this)
Crystalgate
694
My favorite incarnation of that trick is Wonderboy III.
I think the trick itself can be a good idea, but I am concerned about how you intend to execute that. You need a good reason for why number 2 isn't "kill you and be done with it" seeing as that's both easier and safer than what you described. You said it gives the player a reason to fear the villain, but that will not work if the villain let's them go because that amuses him more or because he doesn't consider them a threat and wants to demonstrate that. Maybe it's just me, but I've never felt threatened by a villain who let's the heroes just go, no matter how powerful said villain is. A villain simple stops being threatening if he waits for the heroes to come for him.
I think the trick itself can be a good idea, but I am concerned about how you intend to execute that. You need a good reason for why number 2 isn't "kill you and be done with it" seeing as that's both easier and safer than what you described. You said it gives the player a reason to fear the villain, but that will not work if the villain let's them go because that amuses him more or because he doesn't consider them a threat and wants to demonstrate that. Maybe it's just me, but I've never felt threatened by a villain who let's the heroes just go, no matter how powerful said villain is. A villain simple stops being threatening if he waits for the heroes to come for him.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Story aspects aside, I've heard a lot of people suggest that this is a good way to show the player more of the depth of the gameplay up front, so that they are immediately more interested in the gameplay and not just in the story. However, it can be pretty overwhelming if you actually give them dozens of abilities from the get-go, and if you don't make it clear that they don't actually have to know all this stuff yet because they're going to lose it all, they will spend half an hour just studying the skill screen in the first battle before choosing their first attack. And also, it can make the gameplay feel extremely boring in comparison when suddenly they only have Attack, Defend and one spell each. So you have to make sure you address these problems.
Assuming your game is not a complete waste of space, you hopefully have some sort of skill learning system that's a little more interesting than gaining all your skills on level up. So a good way to get around this might be to start the player with much higher stats, but only a few extra abilities. They might have three or four spells each at level 35, and when they get reduced to level 1, they'll only have one or two spells each. So the boss drained your levels and took away about two thirds of your spells. But by the time you get back to level 35 for real, you'll likely have eight to twelve spells per character at minimum. Now the player isn't overwhelmed at the beginning, but still has a fair selection of tactical abilties, and the feeling of comparative worthlessness afterwords is lessened significantly.
Assuming your game is not a complete waste of space, you hopefully have some sort of skill learning system that's a little more interesting than gaining all your skills on level up. So a good way to get around this might be to start the player with much higher stats, but only a few extra abilities. They might have three or four spells each at level 35, and when they get reduced to level 1, they'll only have one or two spells each. So the boss drained your levels and took away about two thirds of your spells. But by the time you get back to level 35 for real, you'll likely have eight to twelve spells per character at minimum. Now the player isn't overwhelmed at the beginning, but still has a fair selection of tactical abilties, and the feeling of comparative worthlessness afterwords is lessened significantly.
Plus, if you actually get to see a lv. 35 character on a linear stats / skills progression system, you'll have no surprises, it'll be like: "Oh, this nice spell. I already knew I was going to have it. I also already know that Celine Noel won't learn Raise Dead any time soon. (Or ever, if that was Lv. 99.)"
What's the fun of spoiling the growth if it's linear? Hm.
What's the fun of spoiling the growth if it's linear? Hm.
What about, instead of level 35, make it level 20, then allow the character to grow beyond that point to say, level 40+ so that, hey, the know some skills they'll be getting but there's more. That also makes it a bit more realistic in that - "Well, we weren't able to beat him at level 20, but at level 40... Yer ass is mine, evil dude!"
In Marian you started as lvl 40 and just wipe out every creature from the face of the planet :D
Until a specific part of the story made you lvl 1. I think storytelling devices like this is good as long as it doesn't look like an enemy skill but rather as a(n) (un)natural phenomena?
Until a specific part of the story made you lvl 1. I think storytelling devices like this is good as long as it doesn't look like an enemy skill but rather as a(n) (un)natural phenomena?
Billwilliams
1159
This is probably cruel and unusual but...
What if you had a player start at a high level. Then slowly lose levels (say they have a disease or a curse) until at the mid point of the game the player is extremely weak (Lvl 1). The key point of gameplay being that the player must be careful against enemies that they mopped the floor with earlier.
Afterwards the player is cured, regains their former strength and must take revenge on the big baddie.
What if you had a player start at a high level. Then slowly lose levels (say they have a disease or a curse) until at the mid point of the game the player is extremely weak (Lvl 1). The key point of gameplay being that the player must be careful against enemies that they mopped the floor with earlier.
Afterwards the player is cured, regains their former strength and must take revenge on the big baddie.
Kaempfer
1932
This is a tried and tested gameplay mechanic. Start the player with everything and then SHIT ON HIM. Assassin's Creed 1 did this quite effectively, but the second one could never since it was much broader in scope.
I like it, so long as the powers you have at the start aren't too unattainable.
I like it, so long as the powers you have at the start aren't too unattainable.
VideoWizard
2842
author=Billwilliams
This is probably cruel and unusual but...
What if you had a player start at a high level. Then slowly lose levels (say they have a disease or a curse) until at the mid point of the game the player is extremely weak (Lvl 1). The key point of gameplay being that the player must be careful against enemies that they mopped the floor with earlier.
Afterwards the player is cured, regains their former strength and must take revenge on the big baddie.
Dragon Quest VI may not start you at a high level, but you might reach a high level and get a lot of skills and spells by the time you've explored three worlds... and then get down to LV 1, 1 HP and 0 MP for ALL characters as soon as you enter the final world. IIRC, those effects last for quite some time.
A better example is Lufia and the Fortress of Doom. Your characters start in the 70s for levels and know every skill and spell that can be learned, and are even in the final dungeon. Then some things happen (explained better in Lufia II), and you start the REAL quest, with one character at level 1, and one spell.
Shinan
4314
Incidentally there was an article tangentially related to this on the escapist.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/8661-Extra-Punctuation-What-if-We-Leveled-Backwards
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/extra-punctuation/8661-Extra-Punctuation-What-if-We-Leveled-Backwards
author=Billwilliams
This is probably cruel and unusual but...
What if you had a player start at a high level. Then slowly lose levels (say they have a disease or a curse) until at the mid point of the game the player is extremely weak (Lvl 1). The key point of gameplay being that the player must be careful against enemies that they mopped the floor with earlier.
Afterwards the player is cured, regains their former strength and must take revenge on the big baddie.
Warcraft 3: The Frozen Throne did this =w=)b
Uh no not that. I was referring more to the story side of things.
Arthas started really strong in Frozen Throne due to the events of Reign of Chaos, but as time progresses, since the lich king is getting weak, he was getting weaker too so they have to reach the frozen throne, so you start as lvl 30 and as time pass by your level slowly decreases (but you can still level up). If you skipped the campaign scenarios, he starts as LEVEL ONE on the final campaign XD
author=VideoWizardauthor=BillwilliamsDragon Quest VI may not start you at a high level, but you might reach a high level and get a lot of skills and spells by the time you've explored three worlds... and then get down to LV 1, 1 HP and 0 MP for ALL characters as soon as you enter the final world. IIRC, those effects last for quite some time.
This is probably cruel and unusual but...
What if you had a player start at a high level. Then slowly lose levels (say they have a disease or a curse) until at the mid point of the game the player is extremely weak (Lvl 1). The key point of gameplay being that the player must be careful against enemies that they mopped the floor with earlier.
Afterwards the player is cured, regains their former strength and must take revenge on the big baddie.
A better example is Lufia and the Fortress of Doom. Your characters start in the 70s for levels and know every skill and spell that can be learned, and are even in the final dungeon. Then some things happen (explained better in Lufia II), and you start the REAL quest, with one character at level 1, and one spell.
Well, the Lufia thing doesn't really work as the characters that you play at the start aren't the same ones you play later on. Then again, same spells and what not I suppose.
Another idea is to have some spells that you learn through ways other than levelling up and don't show them at the start. That way there are other skills out there that you can be surprised to find and work with.
author=Liberty
Well, the Lufia thing doesn't really work as the characters that you play at the start aren't the same ones you play later on.
FF7 does this by starting you out as Cloud but also giving you the insanely overbuff Sephiroth.
It gives you a taste of power/the future but not from a character you'll ever have in your party again (and thus avoids the above complaints about spoiling skill linearity).
