THE SCREENSHOT TOPIC RETURNS

Uh, just edit the tileset, not that hard. Like 15 minutes of work tops to make the bottom edges of those cliffs either transparent or dark.

If you can't make a good-looking ramp, use a ladder.

I don't just mean the colors in the northeastern corner, I also mean the cliff heights. They don't line up, you have a cliff going from ground level to the UPPER part of the cliffs that's only four tiles high instead of eight tiles high. I can't actually TELL for sure what sections are supposed to be the first, second and third floor. Also, I have no idea what's going on with that weird part that--- ugh, I can't describe what I mean, here.



I put an arrow going from height 0 to height 1, and then another arrow going from height 1 to height 2, so you can see that the spot with the third arrow in the northeastern section really is going from height 0 all the way up to height 2 and needs to be twice as tall.

The !! part needs to just be changed so that the player is climbing down a ladder or ramp, because whatever you're trying to do there with the side-view isn't working. The ??? part needs something done to it to make it make sense, because I have no idea what it's supposed to be, possibly make it height 2 so you can't walk on it?

Ramps only really work when the upper and lower sections are the same color. They make a smoother transition than stairs or ladders, so of course when you have different ground tiles they look awkward. I don't recommend making your ground tiles all the same color on this map, though, because of the way the area is set up. I just recommend not using ramps.

When I do make a ramp I typically make it like this, basically just like I make stairs except without the steps:


But with two colors it looks like this, which is ugly:

Both ways work.

Ladders in random caves aren't that odd. It's not like no one's ever been in there before. Someone put the treasure chests there, right?

Please tell me that's not a finished in-play dungeon though. :(

I really wouldn't. I don't think I could take it.

First it's completely barren. I know you have doodads. Pebbles, stalagmites, boulders. Use height differences and cliffs not just to shape the area but also to add variety.

But even more imporantly! Condense it. It's three times as big as it needs to be. Remember the player's screen is 20x15 tiles. There are places where the player could be standing where he couldn't see almost anything. Make it small enough that he can clearly see the path almost all the time. Here's an actual FF4 map, notice the size difference:


When taking a single screenshot the player can easily see enough of the area to recognize it. Even though FF4 maps are pretty bare, they do a good job of creating a very traversable layout (as long as you pretend the hidden paths aren't there). Even the shittiest screenshots of FF4 maps have numerous features of the cave visible in them. They do this, and almost all games do this, by condensing the area down. When the player can see more things at once on his screen, the area has more of an identity to the player, is less frustrating to navigate, is more interesting, and is more memorable.


Inb4 FF4 sucks ass. I know it does. Not trying to turn you into the Da Vinci of RPG caves here. One step at a time, and FF4 is an example of a game that does this part of mapping correctly while still having most of the same other problems that you have, so it's actually a good way of showing you how to fix this problem because you can focus on the few things that are different.

Heh, FF4 sux ass.

It depends on what you're going for.

A typical map should be small (I always regret it after I draw a map, because either it's too small, and I have scrunched graphics, or I make it too big even though it doesn't look that way on the draw and I have alot of empty space).

That said, a maze map, or at least one with a branched path should not be small, as you don't want the user to readily know where the exit is. Someone like me (photographic or nearly photographic memory) can probably get it right on the second try even still, short of an immense twisting maze (I made one myself that was a 500x500 monstrosity). But for the average person, having a 3x3 square of 20x15 (60x45 that is) would be enough to obscure most of the stuff enough.

The point of the matter is not that you must work only with 20x15 (that's awfully limiting, especially since maps can go about 20x that). It's that unless you want areas to look very stretched out, you should fill in each 20x15 area as though it's the entire map (in other words, avoid making 500x500 to start with, since you won't have much actual filled area). To make this sort of thing, do small areas at a time. Map 2 is a good example of this, map 1 is a bad.

I really should make a screenshot, but my highlights tend to be technical stuff (custom events), and mapping tends to be my weakest point. I'll think of something.

also ff4's dungeon theme is really good don't hate on ff4 (unless it's ff4 DS)

If you're referring to the top ledges of spots, that's the upper layer (it's the same tile as the lower layer, so no need to worry about those). The base outlines is something I can also deal with. Not sure what to do about the bridge though. There's really not a whole lot that I can think of to deal with it. x_x;;

Though I dunno where this graphical error may be that you see o_o;

Oh that, I didn't even notice it x_x;; Got that fixed, and I think I have this map set up the way it can best be done for now...

I'm trying to go back to a simpler message system to give my project a more consistent UI. Thoughts?

old


new