EMO REQUIRE: DO RPGS NEED A STORY?

I think it depends on what type of RPG you're trying to make. I don't think every RPG needs a be a grand epic tale. As long as the story that it does have is entertaining enough, interesting and fairly original, I'm satisfied.


But I mainly play RPGs for the characters, anyway. The story itself could be complete poo but I'd still love the game if the characters are unique and entertaining.

me: eh, Shadow of the Colussus
the game is 100% gameplay
you are a dude, with a horse, a sword, a bow
but I don't consider it an RPG, it is a platformer with a sword
because all story and plot is completely implied

craze: yes
I would agree with that
but replace it with strategic turn-based battle mechanics and maybe some dungeons

me: story is integral to RPGs as a whole, whether or not it has to be the primary focus
FFTA2 had a shitty story and great gameplay
it's clearly an RPG and a good one
but it's not fantastic, because its lame story holds it back

craze: okay
so what if you took the exact same gameplay
and took out the cutscenes.
I am not saying that you can't have flavor without an overriding storyline

me: I wouldn't then call it an RPG
everything about the world and your role in it is implied

craze: are roguelikes RPGs?

me: I would say so, in the purest form of "role playing"
you have a specific role to act out other than 'little dude jumping on turtles' which clearly doesn't count as an immersive role

craze: I am starting to hate the term "RPG"
so much

me: regardless of overarching story
you have.. a detailed world
focusing on you as a person
as opposed to Shadow of the Colossus
a detailed world, focusing on
climbing... tall shit
and stabbing mountains


Basically, RPGs need to have SOME FORM OF STORY AND PLOT or they aren't an RPG at all as far as what I determine the genre to represent. Story and Plot are requirements of an actual RPG Setting as opposed to With-Rpg-Features. I've heard a lot of people argue that "THEY MADE DRAGON AGE 2 AN ADVENTURE GAME" but it's still an immersive world with explicit stories and plotting - it's clearly an RPG with Adventure Gameplay. Compare Super Mario World to Mario RPG - a clear example of the same game as a Platformer and as an RPG. Story exists in both, but is obviously more important as the driving force in the RPG.

In short, yes, they need -a- story. It doesn't have to be great, but like any other game feature, if it's BAD the game as a whole suffers for it.

Yes they do. When I make a storyless RPG people bitch about it.

Plus you do need to have an emotional attatchment to the characters to keep enjoying something, otherwise people will go to a game that they do feel attatched to. You see the highs and lows of the characters and experience things with them. You can't just walk away from an experience.

They start out storiless. Then people complain so I add stories.

author=narcodis
I am pretty sure not everyone has the same definition of "Story" in this thread. There are a lot of factors to consider. Setting, theme, dialogue, characters, timeline, etc. To ask "Do RPGs need a story?" is somewhat confusing.

Hahaha. Combine that with the fact that not everyone has the same definition of "RPG" in this thread either and suddenly you end up with a really, really stupid question.

Do RPGs (what the hell is an RPG?) need a story? (what kind of story are we talking about here?).

Basically the two important things in the question are things that no one can agree on what they are!

author=LockeZ
So Emanzi, you admit to generally not enjoying RPG gameplay/combat, then? So then do you make RPGs because...?
1) There are specific types of RPG gameplay/combat you do like?
2) You are stuck in 1997 and think RPGs are the only type of game that can have a story?
3) You want to turn the genre upside-down and make one that *is* fun to you?

Or am I misunderstanding, and your point isn't "I dislike the core mechanics of RPGs and think they're inferior to other types of games" but rather just "Most RPGs are bad and don't utilize the system well"? Because, well, no one's going to claim that second point is wrong, 90% of anything is garbage. But I assume everyone's goal here is to make games that are better than the status quo, yeah? We're talking about the games you're making yourselves here. So unless you think your own game's gameplay falls into that category as well, "most RPGs have gameplay that sucks" not a relevant point.

Lol, I'm number 3, I want to turn the genre upside down and make one that is just fun, enjoyable and most of all unique.
I never said most rpg's are bad or inferior though ( they are my favourite genres but I prefer modern day rpgs like red dead redemption, mass effect, fable e.t.c and as I said pop 90's games, can't say I really experienced the 90's since all I play is whats talked about so I'm not a true old school gamer after all I'm born in 93 which means by the time I could think about what I prefered e.t.c it was probably already 2000 or 1999 )
Just that they at times rpg's are a bit too status quo which is final fantasy fan game number 989, I've seen too many games where by the storyline is too typical, the battle system is standard but been done like a million times ( its o.k since some of us including me are not scripters but it would be better if the're some tweaks to it not all the same ff side view or dragon quest text and picture style).
I can't say much about this since you'll all be like "yeah whatever let me see you make a game"...well I am.At the least it's nothing typical and doesn't come close to the 90% category...Actually at least some of the games here are not as typical, thats why I love this site. It's okay to start with what you know but it gets anoying when all I see are typical rpg's everywhere... actually thats good it means original games stand out more.

author=eplipswich
The times have changed. RPGs of the past have great gameplay, but only decent story, which doesn't matter, because gameplay alone is what propels players to play on.

Things like story, graphics, sounds, music etc are all really secondary and bonus effects. The core element of a RPG (Role-Playing Game) is to play as a role of a character, and you control him to do loads of stuff like leveling, wandering around the world etc, achieving the character's objectives etc. That is what a true RPG should at least have. The rest are all secondary but are "icings to the cake" to enhance the taste of an RPG.

That said, I play RPGs for the story really, but most of the time, the gameplay is just as per typical.

I have to agree with this.

Also if the game-play is typical its fine if the story is intresting and vise versa. Its always best to have a perfect balance, that would make for something memorable.

P.S Great thread craze, this is a really fun debate!

I'll try to form a reply more in-line with Craze's intended discussion.

RPG's these days are designed to accommodate large, sprawling worlds and stories. Rather, I should say the inverse is true; because the gameplay is centered on unit management based on experience gained (that is, fight monsters and gain exp to level up your party members). The scope of the game isn't supported by each conflict, or battle, you run into. They are there to prepare you for things to come later. And since the primary motivation to gain exp in these games is to level up, get higher stats, better gear, and ultimately better abilities, it's important to have goals that make all the effort worth it.

Sure, in a game without a developed story you could merely have stronger monsters at certain checkpoints, but as mentioned before, context is extremely important to motivating the player. Everything you see in a modern RPG contributes to this; the extreme size and graphical detail of a boss or final boss, the stronger and more desperate music, established stakes prompting you not to lose, and a great sense of accomplishment when you win. I just described visual, musical, AND story elements, but they all borrow from context, and none would carry as much weight without the established story (or plot; I'm not interested in the semantics).

I think that's a good way of putting it. The strategic gameplay elements of an RPG carries more weight with a story, because the game is designed to be played over an extended period of time. If one was to start dreaming ways to develop a game with RPG gameplay while avoiding the story convention of modern commercial RPG's, player interest would be the primary issue to tackle because a good story WILL hook more players than the same game without that story; it's one more reason to enjoy and continue playing the game.

The closest I can think of a concept without story would be something like a quest-based, open world. Self-preservation can't be a plot, can it?

Allow me to rephrase the original question to be more clear:

Do games based around experience points, level ups, and menu-based combat need to have an engaging, deep story with a lot of cut scenes?

And the answer to this is obviously "no". There's nothing about experience points, level ups, or menu-based combat that strictly requires a story on par with a Final Fantasy game, as evidenced by the fact that plenty of successful games with this type of gameplay only have average or even bare bones stories.

If you think the answer is different, it's because you're answering a different question.