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NO SAVE MARATHON GAME. GOOD OR BAD IDEA?
Posts
PsychoFreaX
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CloseHey we all know it's best to start out smaller with our first game right? So I just thought making my initial 10 hour project into a no save marathon game. Meaning that there are no save points. So each time you play you have to try to get as far as you can without dying even once.
I know, I know, it would be a pain to restart the game if you lost after getting halfway through. But I just it would be more fun to be a kind of game where players go back to every few months to see if they can overcome the challenge this time.
Okay so maybe I'll have ONE save point but at the very end of the game before a new game plus ish kind of thing. So does anyone actually think this is a good idea for a first short game?
EDIT: Oh to be honest I meant initial good project. I had some others a while back. But I learned from those mistakes and never want to speak of them again.
I know, I know, it would be a pain to restart the game if you lost after getting halfway through. But I just it would be more fun to be a kind of game where players go back to every few months to see if they can overcome the challenge this time.
Okay so maybe I'll have ONE save point but at the very end of the game before a new game plus ish kind of thing. So does anyone actually think this is a good idea for a first short game?
EDIT: Oh to be honest I meant initial good project. I had some others a while back. But I learned from those mistakes and never want to speak of them again.
eplipswich
2728
Save or no save, it ain't matter. But having a no save marathon first game is of course taking a risk, because we players don't know how good your initial good project will be.
But to be frank, 10 hrs is too long for a no save marathon game, because not everyone has the patience to run through 10 hrs straight. People have lives to live, you know? Saves are there not only because to prepare for bosses or sorts, but also because to save your progress so that players can play at a later time.
If you really want a no-save marathon game, only 1-3hrs is valid. 10 hrs is no way a short game, man. And yes, I understand the thing about "overcoming challenges", and I welcome that, but not 10 hrs! Doesn't mean you can play 10 hrs straight means most others can, especially when not many people know how your game will play out.
But to be frank, 10 hrs is too long for a no save marathon game, because not everyone has the patience to run through 10 hrs straight. People have lives to live, you know? Saves are there not only because to prepare for bosses or sorts, but also because to save your progress so that players can play at a later time.
If you really want a no-save marathon game, only 1-3hrs is valid. 10 hrs is no way a short game, man. And yes, I understand the thing about "overcoming challenges", and I welcome that, but not 10 hrs! Doesn't mean you can play 10 hrs straight means most others can, especially when not many people know how your game will play out.
Crystalgate
694
I would recommend soft saves instead of disabling saves. Many people don't have enough free time for this kind of thing. Other people are simple bored outa their minds after even half that time.
Yeah agreed(Crystalgate) I may have to do something important, go somewhere, do something, so not allowing saves would earn the game a :P from me.
Ocean
Roguelikes?
Yes. The OP is talking about a roguelike. Learn to quicksave (saving boots you to the main menu, save is deleted upon loading). Play some roguelikes.
Don't go into a project like this without research.
I was thinking of this game to be something that you play during the holidays or something. When you're bored with too much free time and it's raining outside. You know. Thought the marathon challenge makes up for the fact that it's a short gam- wait wha? 10 hours wouldn't be considered short?
The average non-RPG game lasts ~8 hours, with many checkpoints.
What you're trying to do is two very stupid things:
1) Go against modern design sense by punishing people who want to take a break or mess around, especially since you didn't consider quick/soft saves
2) Make a game without investigating the pre-existing genre (roguelikes)
Withholding saving is NOT difficulty. It is being an ass and alienating potential players. Replaying a section is boring as Hell in almost every game, and will become annoying eventually.
Things to do:
1) Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, POWDER, Desktop Dungeons, Nethack
2) Play actual games and see what makes them less frustrating, or what does make them frustrating
3) Die a lot of times, but understand where that can be entertainment when done well
4) Revisit your game idea completely
What you're trying to do is two very stupid things:
1) Go against modern design sense by punishing people who want to take a break or mess around, especially since you didn't consider quick/soft saves
2) Make a game without investigating the pre-existing genre (roguelikes)
Withholding saving is NOT difficulty. It is being an ass and alienating potential players. Replaying a section is boring as Hell in almost every game, and will become annoying eventually.
Things to do:
1) Play Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, POWDER, Desktop Dungeons, Nethack
2) Play actual games and see what makes them less frustrating, or what does make them frustrating
3) Die a lot of times, but understand where that can be entertainment when done well
4) Revisit your game idea completely
Just because Final Fantasy does it does not mean you should do it.
...fuck if FF does it do not do it okay
just
go process that for a while
...fuck if FF does it do not do it okay
just
go process that for a while
Um there's also Dragon being which I think was even longer than Final Fantasy games. The reason I said it though is because I know RPGs(yes other than Final Fantasy) that long.
Anyways, the purpose of the no saves mainly was so that the players would actually fear dying in my game and not just think "oh if I lose against this guy I'll just load up from my last save file". But I'm only applying this idea because it's a "short" game. I would never be so cruel to do the same thing with a 30-40 hour game.
I didn't think we could do soft saves on RPG Maker VX though. Also, I might be able to make the game a little shorter. Does 7 hours seem good enough for a no save marathon game?
Anyways, the purpose of the no saves mainly was so that the players would actually fear dying in my game and not just think "oh if I lose against this guy I'll just load up from my last save file". But I'm only applying this idea because it's a "short" game. I would never be so cruel to do the same thing with a 30-40 hour game.
I didn't think we could do soft saves on RPG Maker VX though. Also, I might be able to make the game a little shorter. Does 7 hours seem good enough for a no save marathon game?
I coded quicksaves myself just two days ago. It is definitely more than possible. You could probably event it yourself with the right code snippets (worale has a useful save-via-script line script).
I'd share my scripts, but it's tied directly into the rest of my project's code and thus is not easy shared.
I'd share my scripts, but it's tied directly into the rest of my project's code and thus is not easy shared.
Mr.Nemo
1295
if you're making a game that's supposed to be played in one go, it should have a playtime of maybe 10 minutes. think a lunch-break sized rougelike.
eplipswich
2728
@Psycho: Like what the rest said, quicksaves would be the way to go instead of no saves. Just do note that if you do stick with 10 hrs no save, the risk of the game failing is very high, because chances are, if you don't do it right, almost close to none will ever be able to complete your game. 10 hrs without saves is actually pretty brutal for casual RPG gamers. Your kind of 10 hr no-save game seems more designated at hardcore gamers. If that's what you're targeting though, then feel free to do so. :) Just do bear that in mind.
As for length of RPGs, whoever says you can't make an RPG in, say, 5-6 hrs? Maybe 5-6 hrs would be a better range, so to speak.
As for length of RPGs, whoever says you can't make an RPG in, say, 5-6 hrs? Maybe 5-6 hrs would be a better range, so to speak.
Breath of Fire Dragon Quarter did the "10 hr JPRG mixed with roguelikes" decently well. I'd suggest looking into what it did (partly because I don't remember all of it :v)
Drakonais
2787
I see where you're coming from but I agree with the 1 to 3 hr limit on this sort of thing. Hell, I'd even say stick with a 1 hr max and give the player several different ways of playing through and it could be pretty interesting.
Crystalgate
694
author=PsychoFreaX
I was thinking of this game to be something that you play during the holidays or something. When you're bored with too much free time and it's raining outside. You know. Thought the marathon challenge makes up for the fact that it's a short gam- wait wha? 10 hours wouldn't be considered short?
A lot of people actually enjoy the free time from holidays, rainy days or not. Even if they're bored, chance is they don't consider a 10 hour marathon to be the best cure. The problem with most activities is that they become less fun the more you do them, therefore you to switch activity when one get boring. So, your game may be fun the first few hours, but chance is that after that, it's your game they are bored of.
Some people choose to undertake a game marathon. However, those who don't are unlikely to be open to the idea that they should do it because of whatever pro marathon argument you make. I for example, would rather play a game for say 2-3 hours and then look elsewhere for entertainment, than playing the game for another 7-8 hours.
10 hours is short for an RPG, but long for playing on one sitting.
author=Craze
Just because Final Fantasy does it does not mean you should do it.
...fuck if FF does it do not do it okay
just
go process that for a while
Is this your opinion?
I will voice my opinion if you don't mind.
I think if a person(S) that make a 50 hour game has done an amazing job, though I would never download it, it would be huge :3. I wouldn't criticize people just because you can't make a 50 hour game :3 Kidding.
____________
Anyways, As I said a non-stop no save game would annoy me, and before downloading it, I found that out, I wouldn't, also, I would discourage people to download such a game :(
Anyways, I wouldn't do that.
