WHAT'S THE POINT?

author=calunio
I'm actually waiting for the guy who made the fist post to say something.

He probably didn't find a point and hanged himself.

author=Zeronamous
Lately, I've been wondering, what's the point in mastering a program like RPG Maker 2003, and creating some games with it?

To me, there really doesn't seem to be one. Every time I ask myself what the point is of me pouring hours on end into some specialized software, to make a game, that wouldn't stick out any more than anyone else on this entire site, I keep coming to the conclusion that there isn't a point, and it's a genuine waste of time.

So, why do you guys do it?

Well, I actually work professionally (for which do not read: full time job or 'five figure yearly salary', at least not at this time) as a freelancer for a company that makes the kind of RPGs that don't involve pixels. I partially credit my lengthy time spent on RPG Maker with the ingrained sense of game balance I've built up over time.

Also, my primary/secondary (it varies with the month) source of income right now is another non-pixel RPG based on the story of my most popular RPG Maker games.

But I'm not saying "do it for the money" because like anything creative (art, writing, music) the money in game design is shit. This is just the best (for which read, LEAST ABSTRACT) argument I can offer against it being entirely pointless.

But I mean, it's never really been something I CHOSE to do. It's always been a compulsion for me, although it took me years to realize this. And there's also the fact that, for better or worse, most of my games HAVE stuck out a little more than most.

author=Max McGee
I partially credit my lengthy time spent on RPG Maker with the innate sense of game balance I've built up over time.

I also have an innate skating ability that I developed over time by practicing a lot... oh wait, that's not what innate means. That's some pretty creative writing there.

author=Clyve

author=Max McGee
I partially credit my lengthy time spent on RPG Maker with the innate sense of game balance I've built up over time.

I also have an innate skating ability that I developed over time by practicing a lot... oh wait, that's not what innate means. That's some pretty creative writing there.

Prick. Yet you're right. A better choice of word would have been ingrained. What I was trying to convey with 'innate' as opposed to 'learned' was...ah, fuck it. Probably should not have responded at all.

Wait, so have you been writing pen-and-paper RPGs and selling them? That's awesome.

Yep, I'm a freelancer for one of the second tier companies.(They're not WoTC and they're not White Wolf, but they're not indie, and they're big enough to pay pro rates.) I've been doing it since February and it's kind of a dream come true in a lot of ways. I'll make a thread about it here when the book I've been working on comes out, hopefully at Gencon this year.

He brings up a good point too. Principles of good game design transcends the medium, and practice in one form (RPG Maker) will help you design games better in other forms (Pen & paper, 3D games, Unreal Engine, Flash, board games, whatever).

I have heard at least a couple professionals tell me personally that all video game designers should try running a D&D campaign, because it's a great way to: practice design, learn what's fun and not fun, figure out what parts of design you enjoy, learn what players enjoy, experience direct player feedback, be creative, create balanced fights, create balanced systems, write stories, create settings, create characters...

Totally agree with this. My RPG Making has helped my GMing a lot and vice versa.They employ many, many, many of the same skills. In fact, GMing is a little bit like RMing, if players could tell you what they thought was wrong with your game in real time, to your face. : ) There's also slightly less work involved, unless you're building your own system and your own campaign, that is.

You know what? The original poster is absolutely right. This is a waste of time unless we make money at it. People might hate Aveyond, but at least the maker of those games made money at it. Enough money to keep doing it.

Meanwhile the rest of us give away great games.

If anything its a creative outlet that wastes time.

This is a time consuming hobby that you do yourself. Playing chess is a game with social interaction. Heck this isn't even a game. DnD is a social game.

Paintings can get sold. Shitty novels can get sold. Athletics will get better.

This is just sitting on your butt for hours at a time alone. Sure some games have teams, but how often does your team talk on the phone or sit in a group and work?

Why does everything require a social element to be worthwhile, ShortBus?

author=Feldschlacht IV
doing things that you enjoy is a waste of time

get back to work soldier

author=ShortStar
You know what? The original poster is absolutely right. This is a waste of time unless we make money at it. People might hate Aveyond, but at least the maker of those games made money at it. Enough money to keep doing it.

Meanwhile the rest of us give away great games.

If anything its a creative outlet that wastes time.

Okay, so as a disclaimer: I don't CHOOSE to participate in this hobby; there is no choice being made for me to defend. It's an inescapable compulsion for me. That said, let me play devil's advocate.

In addition to being highly rewarding, RM has trained game design skills that I do use to make money. Besides releasing good games for free is a really good way to build word of mouth. This is why REAL COMPANIES whose SOLE PURPOSE is to make money still release things for free. Regardless of my feelings about him and his games, harmonic did something smart and correct by releasing Legacies of Dondoran for free. I'm sure it significantly contributes to the commercial success he's had with Deadly Sin or whatever.

Finally, probably most importantly: you can say the same thing you're saying about RM about writing or art or making music. Creative professions (with a few exceptions) just don't pay as well as non-creative ones. Even a professional video game designer is generating less ducats than an equally successful doctor, lawyer, petroleum engineer, etcetera of the same 'level'. Does that mean that he should quit?

Edit: And above and beyond all that, I think THIS is the point:

Natsu_Luffy
i just want to say thanks for making such a fantastic games that are free!!

author=ShortStar
This is a time consuming hobby that you do yourself. Playing chess is a game with social interaction. Heck this isn't even a game. DnD is a social game.

Isn't creating something for others to enjoy also a social interaction of a different sort?