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RELIGION AND THE AFTER-LIFE
Posts
kentona
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Closeauthor=EnderXI trust that the manufacturers have.
@Arcan:
Do you regularly stress test chairs before you sit down in them, then?
I don't trust that various priests and shamans have seen the afterlife, though. (if that was the comparison you were hoping to draw)
author=geodudeI know you said that in jest but it is true, since the claims of religions are unverifiable and untestable. :\
THE WAY TO DISCUSS THIS IS WITH REALLY BAD ANALOGIES
That is not what I call faith, that is experience. I can't know for certain that my chair won't break if I sit down but I don't need to because from experience I can tell that chairs have a very low chance of breaking. You can't use the two interchangeably as faith doesn't have that element.
Also while your argument about the absence of evidence may be true it is no where near a good reason to believe something since by that logic I would have to believe in everything I can't disprove such as unicorns, leprechauns etc.
Also while your argument about the absence of evidence may be true it is no where near a good reason to believe something since by that logic I would have to believe in everything I can't disprove such as unicorns, leprechauns etc.
EnderX
562
@Kentona:
Arcan's statement was "Any reliance on faith at all is bad." I was simply pointing out where this argument falls apart. You yourself admit that you are exercising faith - in the skills, efforts, and integrity of the manufacturer - when engaging in the activity described.
And my own faith rests on the track record of the scriptures, Testaments Old and New. As yet, I haven't seen anything within them that has proven false - everything falls into the categories of 'proven reliable' and 'unproven'.
I would also like to raise the question of your own earlier argument about the nature of the afterlife: "Furthermore, when most people imagine passing on to some other magical dimension, they usually imagine it as their consciousness that crosses over".
I cannot speak for any other belief, but in Christianity, that is inaccurate. It stems from a corruption of Christianity, most likely by way of the gnostics, involving the idea that spirit is good, but the physical is evil. The actual scriptures detail Heaven as a physical world - this one, in fact. As it stands now, the world is broken, corrupted by the original sin. The New Heaven and New Earth are that same corrupted world, only rendered pure. Becoming pure doesn't remove it's physical nature, any more than it would remove the spiritual one.
Although few would describe it this way, the Christian viewpoint on Heaven and Eternity could, theoretically, be phrased as this: that humans are amphibians - we were created to live in two worlds (Spirit and Physical), and that any argument rendering either of these as 'bad' is wrong.
@Arcan:
You are still exercising faith - faith that your past experiences will hold valid in this issue.
Arcan's statement was "Any reliance on faith at all is bad." I was simply pointing out where this argument falls apart. You yourself admit that you are exercising faith - in the skills, efforts, and integrity of the manufacturer - when engaging in the activity described.
And my own faith rests on the track record of the scriptures, Testaments Old and New. As yet, I haven't seen anything within them that has proven false - everything falls into the categories of 'proven reliable' and 'unproven'.
I would also like to raise the question of your own earlier argument about the nature of the afterlife: "Furthermore, when most people imagine passing on to some other magical dimension, they usually imagine it as their consciousness that crosses over".
I cannot speak for any other belief, but in Christianity, that is inaccurate. It stems from a corruption of Christianity, most likely by way of the gnostics, involving the idea that spirit is good, but the physical is evil. The actual scriptures detail Heaven as a physical world - this one, in fact. As it stands now, the world is broken, corrupted by the original sin. The New Heaven and New Earth are that same corrupted world, only rendered pure. Becoming pure doesn't remove it's physical nature, any more than it would remove the spiritual one.
Although few would describe it this way, the Christian viewpoint on Heaven and Eternity could, theoretically, be phrased as this: that humans are amphibians - we were created to live in two worlds (Spirit and Physical), and that any argument rendering either of these as 'bad' is wrong.
@Arcan:
You are still exercising faith - faith that your past experiences will hold valid in this issue.
Experience involves statistics and chance but faith is purely emotional. All you're doing is playing word games. I don't agree with your definitions.
That is not what I am doing. Faith is not the same as experience. Faith is making a virtue of willful ignorance. I find it hard to suspend reason and logical and critical thinking to achieve a state of faith. Faith sidesteps reason and rationality.
Also, if you haven't come across anything false or disproven in the bible, you didn't look very hard.
Also, if you haven't come across anything false or disproven in the bible, you didn't look very hard.
author=kentona
That is not what I am doing. Faith is not the same as experience. Faith is making a virtue of willful ignorance. I find it hard to suspend reason and logical and critical thinking to achieve a state of faith. Faith sidesteps reason and rationality.
Also, if you haven't come across anything false or disproven in the bible, you didn't look very hard.
"Circle of the earth" is the biggest culprit. LOL flat earth. Then science proves it wrong and they retcon it.
i think that wraps up the 'possession of the facts' part. whom are you referring to as believing in a flat earth?
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
From a purely logical standpoint, I would rather be a Christian and end up being wrong than be an atheist and end up being wrong. From a risk-benefit assessment, atheism is the belief system that makes the least sense to choose.
cho
0
author=EnderXno
would it surprise you to know that there are Christians who hold the same belief as your last sentance?
i also don't really consider those people christians
edit:
author=arcanhave you ever considered that some people don't believe that souls are created upon birth?
Not sure why people think there is an afterlife or even a soul for that matter. If a soul is created upon birth then it makes sense that it is destroyed upon death.
(hint: no)
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=cho
i also think religion is a bad thing but not necessarily that religious people are bad (oh boy i can't wait until someone gets offended)
I think the opposite is true. Religion is like FF7 or Harry Potter. It is a decent product that is ruined by its fanbase.
Well I guess I was referring to Christian beliefs. I ruled it out as a possibility because no one I know believes that and it makes no sense. If you expect to be conscious of your being when you die and go to heaven it should make sense that you will also be aware of it before you are born. But in the end if you are Christian you can't deny that god created you at some point, whether it was at birth or not is irrelevant.
Folks, I think the whole point of this topic was to ask if you think that you will actually go to Heaven or to Hell or no where or be reborn as yourself/someone else or where-ever and to explain why you think this; not to start a religion/anti-religion topic.
@rcholbert: I'm up on this too, I can see major flamings and a lot off pissed of people saying things or things being said to hurt/offend others coming from this. Its waaaay off topic and prolly isn't going to get back on. Imo anyways...
@rcholbert: I'm up on this too, I can see major flamings and a lot off pissed of people saying things or things being said to hurt/offend others coming from this. Its waaaay off topic and prolly isn't going to get back on. Imo anyways...
Whether or not an afterlife exists, I do not concern myself with such a question. I have no idea what will happen when I die and I will never know until after I draw my last breath, so while it's something to ponder, I waste no time with it. I live for the here and now, living life one step at a time. Whatever happens after death will just have to wait until that moment happens.
EnderX
562
@Fallen-Griever:
Hell isn't, as you seem to believe, the angry reaction of a vain deity who's ticked off people don't believe in Him. It is the one place in all of existence where God will never be, where God's presence is never felt. Hell, in the final analysis, is God's way of saying "You don't want me around? Have it your way."
Hell isn't, as you seem to believe, the angry reaction of a vain deity who's ticked off people don't believe in Him. It is the one place in all of existence where God will never be, where God's presence is never felt. Hell, in the final analysis, is God's way of saying "You don't want me around? Have it your way."
