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A PSYCHOLOGICAL INQUIRY - THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SUBMISSION AND SELFLESSNESS
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Feldschlacht IV
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Closeauthor=FG
As for waiters, I am glad that in the UK we don't have a culture where waiters etc. expect to be tipped a ridiculous amount even when they give terrible service.
This culture you speak of exists nowhere (I was a waiter for a long time).
Those stories (and I can't blame you for what you heard) are completely retarded, and while I can't say that probably never happened anywhere, well, a lot of strange shit happens.
Any waiter worth his salt, at all, knows that he'll be tipped in accordance to how he performs, which is why many waiters try so hard. Also, a waiter that performs bad is only hurting himself, not only from the shitty tip he's going to get, but the manager is going to know about it, and that's going to be another person who's going to be mad at the waiter, and he can't afford to piss his boss off.
And I don't know if you meant it literally but I'll be damned if I get chased out of a place I just patronized; fuck that, I'd kick the waiter in his chest first. Like I've said before, I've waited tables before, and while you get a bigger appreciation as a customer knowing what they have to deal with, there's just some shit that doesn't fly.
Any waiter worth his salt, at all, knows that he'll be tipped in accordance to how he performs, which is why many waiters try so hard. Also, a waiter that performs bad is only hurting himself, not only from the shitty tip he's going to get, but the manager is going to know about it, and that's going to be another person who's going to be mad at the waiter, and he can't afford to piss his boss off.
And I don't know if you meant it literally but I'll be damned if I get chased out of a place I just patronized; fuck that, I'd kick the waiter in his chest first. Like I've said before, I've waited tables before, and while you get a bigger appreciation as a customer knowing what they have to deal with, there's just some shit that doesn't fly.
Yeah, holy shit. Well, America is gigantic. I can believe it happened, but yeah, strange shit can go down in a population of 300 million on a coast to coast continent.
The article missed the reason why we tip here; it's linked to the cost of the food. The food service industry depending on the customer to take up the slack in paying waiters/waitresses (and the article was correct, American service is absolutely fantastic compared to many other countries, we don't fuck around) in turn, lowers the cost of the food.
If the food service industry had to pay for legions of waiters/waitresses AND the price of food, the cost to sit down and eat at our restaurants would be astronomical. The incredible abundance and large portions of our food comes at the price of the customer tipping his server in proportion to how he performs his job.
The article missed the reason why we tip here; it's linked to the cost of the food. The food service industry depending on the customer to take up the slack in paying waiters/waitresses (and the article was correct, American service is absolutely fantastic compared to many other countries, we don't fuck around) in turn, lowers the cost of the food.
If the food service industry had to pay for legions of waiters/waitresses AND the price of food, the cost to sit down and eat at our restaurants would be astronomical. The incredible abundance and large portions of our food comes at the price of the customer tipping his server in proportion to how he performs his job.
First off, I glad to see good answers from you all instead of just writing this off as a "lol dumb Mitsu" topic, especially since I wanted real opinions.
Second, when talking about food services (which I don't consider to be that big a deal) I figure there's not much point in complaining. It's fast food. It's where some of the biggest and most common mistakes in food service occur (and I know because I'm currently working a Summer job at a Sonic). I don't see it as "being a bitch" and "letting people walk all over me" because it's both trivial and not really worth my time, unless there was an instance in which my order was fucked up beyond all comparison...like more than 40% or more of the order was incorrect/missing.
But that's what it really comes down to; I just don't feel as if it's worth it, not because I don't have the balls to say otherwise, but because it's simply too trivial to matter. It's like, "So they forgot to put cheese on my burger. Big whoop."
Applying this to something other than fast food, I'd certainly raise my concerns depending on how big the problem was.
Also, when it comes to tipping, I don't expect to be given a tip. Never. Not because I purposely do a shitty service job, but because I feel that it's the customer's choice whether or not I deserve or need the tip. If I--or anyone else--doesn't get a tip, tough shit.
Second, when talking about food services (which I don't consider to be that big a deal) I figure there's not much point in complaining. It's fast food. It's where some of the biggest and most common mistakes in food service occur (and I know because I'm currently working a Summer job at a Sonic). I don't see it as "being a bitch" and "letting people walk all over me" because it's both trivial and not really worth my time, unless there was an instance in which my order was fucked up beyond all comparison...like more than 40% or more of the order was incorrect/missing.
But that's what it really comes down to; I just don't feel as if it's worth it, not because I don't have the balls to say otherwise, but because it's simply too trivial to matter. It's like, "So they forgot to put cheese on my burger. Big whoop."
Applying this to something other than fast food, I'd certainly raise my concerns depending on how big the problem was.
Also, when it comes to tipping, I don't expect to be given a tip. Never. Not because I purposely do a shitty service job, but because I feel that it's the customer's choice whether or not I deserve or need the tip. If I--or anyone else--doesn't get a tip, tough shit.
author=Mit
Also, when it comes to tipping, I don't expect to be given a tip. Never. Not because I purposely do a shitty service job, but because I feel that it's the customer's choice whether or not I deserve or need the tip. If I--or anyone else--doesn't get a tip, tough shit.
Dude, you work at Sonic. You get a wage. I'm talking about actual, serving jobs where if you don't get a tip, that means you're pretty much literally not getting paid at all. Make no mistake, a well tipped server/bartender is ballin'.
Yeah. Always give at least 15 percent unless it's fast food or take out or something like that.
The way I see it, common folk should give 15 percent, middle-upper middle 20 percent, and upper class 25 percent.
The way I see it, common folk should give 15 percent, middle-upper middle 20 percent, and upper class 25 percent.
author=Fallen-Griever
I've always heard that waiters in the US expect to be tipped no matter what. I've even heard stories of people being chased out of places by waiters because they only tipped x amount, or not at all, because the service was bad or something.
It's not that waiters expect to be tipped, it's that business owners expect that their workers will be tipped. It allows them to pay less than minimum wage and thus evade taxes. Really, "tip" should just be factored into the price, but Americans hate paying more - even if they only think they're paying more.
author=Sal
but Americans hate paying more
Every single person in every society ever would rather pay less than more for the same product. Is there some weird subtropical society that I'm not aware of that pays 100 spots for a roll of bread for the hell of it or something?
Did you think that sentence through before you typed it?
You're missing my point. Many Americans balk at the fact that in many European countries, tax is included in the list price because they think they're somehow paying more than if tax was just added on at the end. It's the same way with tipping.
@CP: I don't know what you're getting at. I'm American.
@CP: I don't know what you're getting at. I'm American.
author=Sal
Americans balk at the fact that in many European countries
oh man people from one side of a massive ocean being unfamiliar with the economic and market customs of people of the other side of said massive ocean (and vice versa because europeans do it too)
What a concept!
author=SaileriusI totally agree on that. Nobody should work for tips, it's like working on the black market : no taxes i.e. no social security, no retreat, etc.@ Feldschlacht IV, in France, tips are officially (only) banned.
It's not that waiters expect to be tipped, it's that business owners expect that their workers will be tipped. It allows them to pay less than minimum wage and thus evade taxes.
author=Sailerius
You're missing my point. Many Americans balk at the fact that in many European countries, tax is included in the list price because they think they're somehow paying more than if tax was just added on at the end. It's the same way with tipping.
Eh, I would agree with the "tipping" being unfair and just a way for restaurant owners to pay-sub minimum wages to their employees. It's a bad system, and some states even allow restaurants to be exempted from laws mandating breaks. That said, it's kind of a mixed bag -- I know some people who clean up tip wise.
However, I disagree on the idea that Americans don't include tax in the list price for products to make them look "cheaper". The rational is that you get a line item on your receipt that shows you how much of your total purchase went to taxes. This is especially notable because in some cases there are multiple taxing bodies (state, county, city, etc.) and the tax line is broken down by how much went to each jurisdiction. It's not an essential item, but I prefer having this knowledge to not having it.
Space_Monkey
366
author=chana
I totally agree on that. Nobody should work for tips, it's like working on the black market : no taxes i.e. no social security, no retreat, etc.@ Feldschlacht IV, in France, tips are officially (only) banned.
in the u.s. tips are treated as wages at tax time i think. so, theyre still taxed, still go into soc security, etc.
on topic, if a fast food place forgets to give me something like a fry or a burger then sometimes I'll go back and sometimes I won't. I think the hassle of driving all the way back to the restaurant is more of a deterrent than the actual imposition you are placing on the staff or w/e. They don't care about giving you a missing 4 piece nugget or burger that you paid for.
author=Space_Monkey
in the u.s. tips are treated as wages at tax time i think.
This is true, but the reality is there is not really a good way to account for customer tips unless they are distributed by the employer. As such, many tips go unclaimed and cannot be verified.
author=rcholbert
However, I disagree on the idea that Americans don't include tax in the list price for products to make them look "cheaper". The rational is that you get a line item on your receipt that shows you how much of your total purchase went to taxes. This is especially notable because in some cases there are multiple taxing bodies (state, county, city, etc.) and the tax line is broken down by how much went to each jurisdiction. It's not an essential item, but I prefer having this knowledge to not having it.
That's a very good point. Also, I'm not suggesting that American retailers intend to make goods look cheaper by not including tax; rather, I think that's the way the system evolved and now it couldn't be changed without cries of price hikes. On the topic of breaking down where all of your money went with regard to taxes, I'm pretty sure that's common practice, even in places where tax is included in the price.
