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GAME DESIGN IDEAS
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Tri-tail
20
Tri-tail
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Close...for my game Red Lion Roar here are some notes: (any comments or critique greatly appreciated!)
Weapon idea:
This is of course only a series of gimicks on top of a fairly rudimentary combat system that you see in a lot of RPGs. I hope this does not make it so alien that people are still willing to explore it with anticipation--yet does not bore from "same old". Is this a percievable, achievable goal with these two systems in place?
"need to heal constantly" system. Rotating disc in corner of screen responding to arrows keys. You have to navigate the four directions to heal body, mind, spirit, & voice.
Body: When damaged, you cannot attack physically and take more damage physically.
Mind: When damaged, you cannot concentrate on tasks like using items, switches, staff twisting, etc. You also lose ability to tell what your body/mind/spirit/voice bars are at. (Which causes you to guess at what levels they are at the longer you are under the effects of damaged Mind.)
Spirit: When damaged, you cannot keep morale up for very long and that decreases all attacks of the party and increases damage from opposing forces.
Voice: When exhausted, you cannot sing, cry, or roar.
Spirit
Body Mind
Voice
Abilities-->
Body: attack-> with staff twist-> staff to produce various effects with attack
Mind: resist-> reduce physical damage and 30% chance to absorb voice damage
Spirit: (something to do with resisting afflictions and various other buff-like abilities)
Voice: sing-> zelin~restore voice + mind~ veni~restore body~ lopan~restore spirit~ cry-> roar-> red lion~restore all bars a small amount + increase attack/defense for a short period~
Singing won't take your turn, but cry or roar will. Often you will have to sing for a majority of the fight to heal the detriments to your various bars to make sure that you do not get overwhelmed by damage and/or afflictions. I want to have to vary the player strategy between different opponents, as to create variety from even the smallest change in enemy encounter. Also: The danger in not knowing an enemy is much greater, as you may not know how they can take advantage of your bar levels.
Weapon idea:
she comes across a staff has many twisting pieces to it. You twist various parts of it to produce different effects. mostly it has to do with magic, and what you cast--and what element you attack with when you strike someone. but for most intents and purposes, it's just a treasure that Sidar wanted to trade with someone that had something else she wanted. so for a time period you can use this staff and figure out its secrets if you want. all of the symbols on the staff are encrypted to the average player, so you are going to have to study the symbols in the temple while you are there, and probably write a few down.
but basically it will look something like: * * * * * * * * that is the "default" position, snapping back into place every 2-3 minutes. (Unsure on time period here.)
say you twist slot one: ^ * * * * * * (which produces fire)
now you twist the third slot ^ * ^ * * * * which then immediately goes to # * ^ * * * * because of the effects the 3rd slot has on the 1st so you have something new entirely.
I am debating whether or not twisting will take a turn. Possibly at the later and more powerful stages of the twisting evolution. Every few minutes it resets to its default position, which may be during a battle. I may add a certain pattern to how fast it resets, depending on how powerful the combination you have run into.
This is of course only a series of gimicks on top of a fairly rudimentary combat system that you see in a lot of RPGs. I hope this does not make it so alien that people are still willing to explore it with anticipation--yet does not bore from "same old". Is this a percievable, achievable goal with these two systems in place?
Mr. Y
300
EDIT: If this is not the ATB RPG battle system that I expect, then I am screeeewed.
Need to Heal Constantly System
The "need to heal constantly" system sounds interesting because it sounds like you're going to make battles interesting. The four directions, the ways they're damaged, and how their being damaged affects play all sounds like an able substitute for regular status effects in RPGs. It also sounds like you tried to balance between the four directions so that it's close to equally important to keep them all in good shape.
If I understand right, the player needs to sing in order to fix damage to one of the four categories within the rotating disc. Singing doesn't take up the player's turn, however... so I want to know, what's the cost of status effects? For example, in a typical RPG if one of your guys is poisoned you'll waste one character's turn plus the cost of the antidote in removing the poison. The cost is sufficient enough that, if you can finish the battle quickly enough without suffering poison damage, you'll kill the bad guys quickly. Even if poison isn't automatically removed at the end of battle, you'll still limit the amount of damage suffered on your party.
What's got my confused about singing and these body-mind-spirit-voice status afflictions is that I don't see the cost. You allow the player to heal them entirely every turn, if they've got the patience, and then the player can go on to attack or do something else at full capacity. The only cost, losing a turn, is incurred when cry or roar are used to speed up the process and gain a little more power for a short period of time. Anyways, I'm probably all screwed up on my understanding; the obvious thing would be to make these damaged-direction status effects have a real cost to the player. Maybe, for example, you can only sing one song and restore only one of the four types per round, so the player needs to decide which is most important to keep up in the fight. Or maybe songs could cost a little MP or require the player to use a purchasable item.
Also, I don't understand how the arrow keys are used to direct the healing of the directions on the rotating disc. For example, if I want to heal my Body from damage, do I press the left arrow key repeatedly, or press it once and then pick the Sing command, or what? Does singing heal a damage type completely or only partially? And by the way, was there any particular reason that you decided that the Zelin song would heal two of the types instead of one type?
Finally... even if you do have a barrier to using Sing every round, it sounds like it might get a little tedious after awhile. But you probably know that! I also had another idea- what if you started the player off with four songs to heal four types of damage, and then the player could learn new songs by completing side quests spread throughout the game? Players would obviously seek out more powerful songs that heal 2 or 3 damage types at a time. There'd never need to be a 'master' song that heals all damage, since cry and roar do that already, but having combination songs would be cool. If you still wanted to tie songs to arrow keys, you could even have the player equip four songs at a time outside of battle, forcing him to plan ahead. And if you're going that far, you could even have special songs that don't heal any damage but provide positive buffs like regeneration, haste, and so on!
Weapon idea
Sounds cool! I think you balanced it well by having the pieces slide back into default position every couple minutes. Obviously it'd be a bad idea to have an 'uber' staff lock, but that whole thing could let the player experiment with all sorts of combat effects and damage types.
I think it'd be most fair if the timer to the staff reset only counts down when the action isn't paused, i.e. when the screen isn't full of attack animations or anything.
One idea for an 'uber' combination: if some of the later staff piece slides take 1 turn, create a final combination that is really difficult to assemble over several rounds. The formula can even be made available in the game, perhaps in some old dusty book the player can discover, but the true difficulty is memorizing the combination and applying it fast enough before the staff reset.
Need to Heal Constantly System
The "need to heal constantly" system sounds interesting because it sounds like you're going to make battles interesting. The four directions, the ways they're damaged, and how their being damaged affects play all sounds like an able substitute for regular status effects in RPGs. It also sounds like you tried to balance between the four directions so that it's close to equally important to keep them all in good shape.
If I understand right, the player needs to sing in order to fix damage to one of the four categories within the rotating disc. Singing doesn't take up the player's turn, however... so I want to know, what's the cost of status effects? For example, in a typical RPG if one of your guys is poisoned you'll waste one character's turn plus the cost of the antidote in removing the poison. The cost is sufficient enough that, if you can finish the battle quickly enough without suffering poison damage, you'll kill the bad guys quickly. Even if poison isn't automatically removed at the end of battle, you'll still limit the amount of damage suffered on your party.
What's got my confused about singing and these body-mind-spirit-voice status afflictions is that I don't see the cost. You allow the player to heal them entirely every turn, if they've got the patience, and then the player can go on to attack or do something else at full capacity. The only cost, losing a turn, is incurred when cry or roar are used to speed up the process and gain a little more power for a short period of time. Anyways, I'm probably all screwed up on my understanding; the obvious thing would be to make these damaged-direction status effects have a real cost to the player. Maybe, for example, you can only sing one song and restore only one of the four types per round, so the player needs to decide which is most important to keep up in the fight. Or maybe songs could cost a little MP or require the player to use a purchasable item.
Also, I don't understand how the arrow keys are used to direct the healing of the directions on the rotating disc. For example, if I want to heal my Body from damage, do I press the left arrow key repeatedly, or press it once and then pick the Sing command, or what? Does singing heal a damage type completely or only partially? And by the way, was there any particular reason that you decided that the Zelin song would heal two of the types instead of one type?
Finally... even if you do have a barrier to using Sing every round, it sounds like it might get a little tedious after awhile. But you probably know that! I also had another idea- what if you started the player off with four songs to heal four types of damage, and then the player could learn new songs by completing side quests spread throughout the game? Players would obviously seek out more powerful songs that heal 2 or 3 damage types at a time. There'd never need to be a 'master' song that heals all damage, since cry and roar do that already, but having combination songs would be cool. If you still wanted to tie songs to arrow keys, you could even have the player equip four songs at a time outside of battle, forcing him to plan ahead. And if you're going that far, you could even have special songs that don't heal any damage but provide positive buffs like regeneration, haste, and so on!
Weapon idea
Sounds cool! I think you balanced it well by having the pieces slide back into default position every couple minutes. Obviously it'd be a bad idea to have an 'uber' staff lock, but that whole thing could let the player experiment with all sorts of combat effects and damage types.
I think it'd be most fair if the timer to the staff reset only counts down when the action isn't paused, i.e. when the screen isn't full of attack animations or anything.
One idea for an 'uber' combination: if some of the later staff piece slides take 1 turn, create a final combination that is really difficult to assemble over several rounds. The formula can even be made available in the game, perhaps in some old dusty book the player can discover, but the true difficulty is memorizing the combination and applying it fast enough before the staff reset.
Tri-tail
20
First of all, I really appreciate the thoughtful and constructive reply! :) I'll address your questions and/or thoughts in sections.
Example: Sidar is at 10 Body at the beginning of the battle. Bandit kicks Sidar for 10 HP damage, and does 2 damage to her Body bar. Even if she chose to sing "lopan" (the Body restoring song) it would not effect her, as it would only bring her back to her maximum of 10 before the kick transpires. Next turn if she chooses to sing Lopan, she will bring herself back to 9--if the bandit "kicks" again, she will be put at 7 at the end of the turn.
So by this method, and probably more problematic against groups of like-or-differing bar draining enemies, she would eventually have to take the time to roar. Keeping in mind, however, that a roar will only restore a set % of her bars. One strategy I am likely to introduce through a tutorial is the choice to roar at the beginning of a battle to "buff" yourself when outnumbered, in order to quickly take out the strongest drainers of the enemy party.
I will probably limit roaring to once per battle, or include some other ability that restores your option to roar but likewise, takes a turn.
On the subject of cries:
I will probably be using these as single-use resistance strippers to be used against enemies that have great defense. One cry per battle to alarm your opponents, and after that they ignore future doings--it would add a bit of ease to some enemies if say: You go through a dungeon with many enemies that have high physical resistance, and have to travel back through this dungeon later on... and figure out they are weak to cries and may be made vulnerable to physical attack with them.
I will probably include "unlockable" weaknesses through cries. For instance: Goblins are frightened by the cry of a great giant eagle--so once you read this from a manuscript or historical account you may seek out a giant eagle to practice your imitation of that cry and learn it.
I feel that feature would add a bit of "God damn I am awesome" in the later stages of the game should you ever come across a group of enemies you may have fought briefly before and learned their fear. I may also include story elements to reflect the fear you have struck into any enemies you have faced, which has obvious various effects of game statistics and possibly options a few story doors in sidequests.
Likely I will have the symbols reflecting enemy weaknesses to elements related to logical visual keys. For instance, you have inscribed symbols of a famous goblin slaying weapon (which you read about in a text, and/or murals) on the staff and when it is utilized you are much more dangerous when fighting goblins. Goblins are also known for getting around the defense of a shield, so use of the shield symbol will in turn force the goblin slaying symbol to rotate into something else as mentioned in the original post. (If not explained well.)
You allow the player to heal them entirely every turn, if they've got the patience, and then the player can go on to attack or do something else at full capacity.Normal attacks to the bars will be 2+ points. Saying you start out at 10 for each bar when fully rested, and singing can only be cast before an enemy attacks explains the "loss" that you're wondering about. So, singing is reactionary in the first/second round, not pre-emptive--and only useful for slowing down the process of waning your skills. Early on you will not be able to fight multiple bar-draining enemies until you have increased your bar levels to acceptable-risk-numbers.
Example: Sidar is at 10 Body at the beginning of the battle. Bandit kicks Sidar for 10 HP damage, and does 2 damage to her Body bar. Even if she chose to sing "lopan" (the Body restoring song) it would not effect her, as it would only bring her back to her maximum of 10 before the kick transpires. Next turn if she chooses to sing Lopan, she will bring herself back to 9--if the bandit "kicks" again, she will be put at 7 at the end of the turn.
So by this method, and probably more problematic against groups of like-or-differing bar draining enemies, she would eventually have to take the time to roar. Keeping in mind, however, that a roar will only restore a set % of her bars. One strategy I am likely to introduce through a tutorial is the choice to roar at the beginning of a battle to "buff" yourself when outnumbered, in order to quickly take out the strongest drainers of the enemy party.
I will probably limit roaring to once per battle, or include some other ability that restores your option to roar but likewise, takes a turn.
Also, I don't understand how the arrow keys are used to direct the healing of the directions on the rotating disc.It will simply open up a menu of songs and/or abilities once you choose a direction. Hitting ESC will bring you back to the disc and the ability to choose between the 4 options once again.
For example, if I want to heal my Body from damage, do I press the left arrow key repeatedly, or press it once and then pick the Sing command, or what?While I have plans of including some button-mashing features to be related to cries and possibly roars, singing is entirely "select an option and that is it". Also, I probably will include the feature to choose to get a "default" amount of potency for roars/cries, as button mashing is unnecessary for every-single fight and could become annoying if you have to do so against a group of weaker enemies throughout a dungeon.
On the subject of cries:
I will probably be using these as single-use resistance strippers to be used against enemies that have great defense. One cry per battle to alarm your opponents, and after that they ignore future doings--it would add a bit of ease to some enemies if say: You go through a dungeon with many enemies that have high physical resistance, and have to travel back through this dungeon later on... and figure out they are weak to cries and may be made vulnerable to physical attack with them.
I will probably include "unlockable" weaknesses through cries. For instance: Goblins are frightened by the cry of a great giant eagle--so once you read this from a manuscript or historical account you may seek out a giant eagle to practice your imitation of that cry and learn it.
I feel that feature would add a bit of "God damn I am awesome" in the later stages of the game should you ever come across a group of enemies you may have fought briefly before and learned their fear. I may also include story elements to reflect the fear you have struck into any enemies you have faced, which has obvious various effects of game statistics and possibly options a few story doors in sidequests.
One idea for an 'uber' combination: if some of the later staff piece slides take 1 turn, create a final combination that is really difficult to assemble over several rounds. The formula can even be made available in the game, perhaps in some old dusty book the player can discover, but the true difficulty is memorizing the combination and applying it fast enough before the staff reset.That is much to what I was thinking. There will be "old reliable" relatively simple twist methods for those new to the game that will do decent damage to almost everyone, but the most effective combinations will be absolutely complicated.
Likely I will have the symbols reflecting enemy weaknesses to elements related to logical visual keys. For instance, you have inscribed symbols of a famous goblin slaying weapon (which you read about in a text, and/or murals) on the staff and when it is utilized you are much more dangerous when fighting goblins. Goblins are also known for getting around the defense of a shield, so use of the shield symbol will in turn force the goblin slaying symbol to rotate into something else as mentioned in the original post. (If not explained well.)
I think it'd be most fair if the timer to the staff reset only counts down when the action isn't paused, i.e. when the screen isn't full of attack animations or anything.The game will be turned based (most likely) so I'm leaning towards a random number of turns before it resets on its own, allowing the super powerful combination to be available 50%-70% of the time.
Mr. Y
300
Makes sense now :).
I like the double purpose of roars. In a longer battle, the player needs to be careful to use the one-time roar when those four directional bars are damaged enough to become prohibitive. If there are any marathon-size boss battles however (I'm thinking something like a final boss or maybe the Master Tonberry from FF8) you might need to help the player out a little... like having Roar return to use after a set number of turns have elapsed in the battle.
Cries causing enemy weaknesses such as fright sounds excellent :). One suggestion I have is that more rare, difficult enemy types towards the end of the game also have weaknesses, but theirs take more work to exploit. For example, it's common knowledge in the game that a great eagle's cry scares the crap out of goblins... but, again from some 'dusky tome', the player can discover that the eagle's cry also scares the crap out of snake men monsters. Some of this stuff also involves experimentation or a good understanding of myth and folklore (e.g. eagle killing the snake on a flag.)
Anyways everything sounds cool. I'd like the ultimate staff combo to be more powerful and maybe last only a couple rounds of usage. Just to check, the staff isn't taken away and not returned after a set amount of time, is it?
I like the double purpose of roars. In a longer battle, the player needs to be careful to use the one-time roar when those four directional bars are damaged enough to become prohibitive. If there are any marathon-size boss battles however (I'm thinking something like a final boss or maybe the Master Tonberry from FF8) you might need to help the player out a little... like having Roar return to use after a set number of turns have elapsed in the battle.
Cries causing enemy weaknesses such as fright sounds excellent :). One suggestion I have is that more rare, difficult enemy types towards the end of the game also have weaknesses, but theirs take more work to exploit. For example, it's common knowledge in the game that a great eagle's cry scares the crap out of goblins... but, again from some 'dusky tome', the player can discover that the eagle's cry also scares the crap out of snake men monsters. Some of this stuff also involves experimentation or a good understanding of myth and folklore (e.g. eagle killing the snake on a flag.)
Anyways everything sounds cool. I'd like the ultimate staff combo to be more powerful and maybe last only a couple rounds of usage. Just to check, the staff isn't taken away and not returned after a set amount of time, is it?
Tri-tail
20
The staff is never taken away, no. It just resets every so often.
And if the roar is needed to be re-balanced temporarily for certain bosses that are too hard that can be easily done! Although I think the ability to reset the roar's use through another skill which uses a turn and possibly has other negative effects balances it out nicely.
And if the roar is needed to be re-balanced temporarily for certain bosses that are too hard that can be easily done! Although I think the ability to reset the roar's use through another skill which uses a turn and possibly has other negative effects balances it out nicely.
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