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CHRONO CROSS APPRECIATION/DEPRECATION/WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN THREAD
Posts
yamata no orochi
184
yamata no orochi
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Closeauthor=Thiamor
Well reason I thought it wasn't canon is because I could have swore that the person who created the original story for the series, wasn't part of the cross team.
That is why I never much liked it, because to me, if the original creator of a story doesn't join up, and some other person takes over the story, I feel it isn't canon.
From Wikipedia, the writers of Chrono Trigger:
Masato Kato
Takashi Tokita
Yoshinori Kitase
Yuji Horii
Masato Kato wrote Chrono Cross. I don't think he was the head writer for Trigger--he had the most influence over the section in Zeal, I think--but he was definitely involved in its creation, not just some guy from the outside who came in to take the series in a totally different direction.
Anyway, made progress! Just escaped from Viper Manor. Observations:
-The battle system is actually pretty neat! It's a lot slower than Trigger's, and there's a bit of wasted potential regarding how much strategy is needed to win battles. But the fact that the system deliberately encourages efficiency over brute force definitely wins it points in my book. The fact that you can run from every battle in the game doesn't hurt either!
-The game's surprisingly dark, even compared to some of the bleaker parts of Chrono Trigger. Save points apparently control society, demihumans are discriminated against by the populace and the line between the protagonists and the antagonists is suspiciously blurred. About the only character who appears to be the traditional JRPG antagonist so far is Lynx, but he obviously knows a lot more than he's telling, so maybe he isn't so bad after all?
-The way that the game handles its crazy mindscrew scenes feels a lot closer to Xenogears than it does to Chrono Trigger. I guess that's to be expected, though. Granted, the plot is pretty confusing, but at the moment the world that the players inhabit is itself confusing and uncertain, suffused with existential dread, so I guess I'm okay with it for now? Waiting tentatively for things to fall apart.
-Still, though: couple of really strange design decisions. If you're trying to sneak into Viper Manor, why aren't you given the opportunity to go through the back instead of through the front door? Why do you have to ask Kersh exactly 20 times to receive the Dragoon Gauntlet? Why is it that you need to abandon Kid in order to get Glenn into your party?!? What the hell, Chrono Cross?
author=Dudesoft
Hey I think I remember my lavos fangirl friend was telling me that Chronic Trigger caused anomalies that spawned the Chrono Cross parallel dimension to contain the changes or some shit? And of course Cross's Another world is caused by an in-game explain splinter event.
Anyway if its a parallel Trigger world, it would better explain cameos.
The events of Chrono Trigger and the messing with timelines split reality into two; both Another World and Home World are both the 'true' worlds, but they're split in half down the middle. The 'Another' and 'Home' names are just relative to Serge's perspective, but from the outside, they're both equally vital to events.
Oh that makes more sense. except when is the point of fracture? When Lavos is beat? Cavewoman era? How does that affect Shalya or whoever? I guess Glen would be human if Magus never has a reason to change him? I didn't beat Trigger so I don't remember much about the story.
Scratch that, Another World is the 'true' history of the world. While both timelines are legitimate after the split (since elements of both exist when the timeline remerges at the end of the true ending of Cross), Another World's 'world' is the actual timeline of the world, and Home World is the divergent one. The timelines split in 1010 A.D.
Why the timelines diverged? It's REALLY REALLY complicated. You can read about it some here.
http://chrono.wikia.com/wiki/Home_World
Why the timelines diverged? It's REALLY REALLY complicated. You can read about it some here.
http://chrono.wikia.com/wiki/Home_World
UPRC
5516
author=DudesoftThat's how I feel as well, but I probably wouldn't say Chrono Trigger sucks. It is one of the very few Square RPGs that I just couldn't really get into. I always felt like Chrono Trigger came across as being really bland and generic. I never beat it but did get to Lavos at the end. I remember a lot of dungeons being really annoying and tortuous simply because many of them were remarkably boring. Every single area set in the future bored me to tears. The only aspect I really like a lot about Chrono Trigger is the music and, to a lesser extent, the graphics in some areas.
Chrono Cross rocked.
Chrono Trigger sucked.
That's just my opinion.
Chrono Cross is a totally different story for me though. While it feels a little "meh" for the first little bit, once the pieces of the story start falling in place and you start amassing your little army of characters, it gets REALLY fun. I love the writing, the music is among the best in any RPG I've ever played, and the dungeons don't bore the hell out of me unlike the ones in Chrono Trigger.
Granted, Crono is a better protagonist than Serge, and Magus is pretty cool... But the sheer size of the character roster in Chrono Cross guarantees that there is a fair share of awesome characters in there as well. I'm playing again after downloading the game off of PSN and I can't wait to get some of my old favourites back like Fargo, Glenn, Grobyc, Karsh, Norris, Steena and, surprisingly, Leena (though I already nabbed her at the start). I just love the diverse cast of Chrono Cross much more than Chrono Trigger. There are so many neat characters!
Also I really love the battle system in Chrono Cross. A lot. It's a bit shallow at first because you're limited by the crappy amount of growth levels you have, but after a few hours? Possibilities open up.
I guess "sucked" is a pretty strong term. Uprc nailed what I should have put to a T.
The flexible character roster is really great. You could be a group of cool characters, bass characters, be a poke master, or get goofy characters like Funguy and Mojo (like I do).
The flexible character roster is really great. You could be a group of cool characters, bass characters, be a poke master, or get goofy characters like Funguy and Mojo (like I do).
That's the thing, though. I liked Chrono Cross, but I didn't dig having that many characters. It just doesn't work like it would in say, Suikoden.
Chrono Trigger having the small cast it did felt really right. The roster was small and tight and relevant. Everyone had a reason to be there and everyone was important to the overall narrative. Everyone had their moment to shine. In Cross however, it just feels diluted, with the possibility for character development, hindered by having a bunch of dudes who didn't have shit to do with shit running around with it.
Chrono Trigger having the small cast it did felt really right. The roster was small and tight and relevant. Everyone had a reason to be there and everyone was important to the overall narrative. Everyone had their moment to shine. In Cross however, it just feels diluted, with the possibility for character development, hindered by having a bunch of dudes who didn't have shit to do with shit running around with it.
Haha that's true. Every time anyone had character development I would replace them with fresh blood.
Though to be fair, I think the party role in the narrative in Cross was to emphasize on choices in life ten years prior. If they had done this with Trigger sized cast I think the already convoluted Serge, Kid, Lynx story would have got moreso messy. Instead the party boils more down to extra grunts in Serge's story.
Though to be fair, I think the party role in the narrative in Cross was to emphasize on choices in life ten years prior. If they had done this with Trigger sized cast I think the already convoluted Serge, Kid, Lynx story would have got moreso messy. Instead the party boils more down to extra grunts in Serge's story.
yamata no orochi
184
Personal opinion time: Chrono Trigger's cast of characters is pretty damn great! Right up there with Final Fantasy VI's and maybe Persona 4's. It might be my favorite cast of characters in any RPG ever, actually--they aren't necessarily masterpieces of characterization, but they're all extremely distinctive and have great chemistry with each other.
In Chrono Cross, on the other hand--from what I've played--the large cast of characters feels like an illusion. On one hand, you have a lot of variety, but on the other hand it feels like the characters you have in your party don't actually matter. Leena might say the same things as Grecio who might say the same things as Razzly. In different accents, sure! But it doesn't feel like the members of your party do anything different from puttting a face and name on either your first or second empty slot.
There isn't even a reason for all these people to be following Serge around anyway--this isn't a Suikoden game, where the character is trying to raise an army. It feels a lot more like the creators of Chrono Cross were reaching for complexity for the sake of it. Of course, that's what gives Cross a lot of it's charm, but it still comes up short of Chrono Trigger in that respect.
As for why Chrono Trigger is probably better than Chrono Cross in the long run--it's effortless. It's also unpretentious, superbly made and just about the right length. Chrono Cross is crazy and intriguing in it's own way, true, and in some ways it's a lot more ambitious and thematically complicated than Trigger ever was. But it's also ponderous, and has moments of bizarre design decisions. Chrono Trigger comes off like its creators were walking on air.
But everyone has different opinions, I guess! It's neat to hear there's such a diversity of opinions here about the game--I was expecting a lot of people to chime in about how Chrono Cross was terrible, but there's a diverse set of opinions here about the game. I guess it really is polarizing after all!
In Chrono Cross, on the other hand--from what I've played--the large cast of characters feels like an illusion. On one hand, you have a lot of variety, but on the other hand it feels like the characters you have in your party don't actually matter. Leena might say the same things as Grecio who might say the same things as Razzly. In different accents, sure! But it doesn't feel like the members of your party do anything different from puttting a face and name on either your first or second empty slot.
There isn't even a reason for all these people to be following Serge around anyway--this isn't a Suikoden game, where the character is trying to raise an army. It feels a lot more like the creators of Chrono Cross were reaching for complexity for the sake of it. Of course, that's what gives Cross a lot of it's charm, but it still comes up short of Chrono Trigger in that respect.
As for why Chrono Trigger is probably better than Chrono Cross in the long run--it's effortless. It's also unpretentious, superbly made and just about the right length. Chrono Cross is crazy and intriguing in it's own way, true, and in some ways it's a lot more ambitious and thematically complicated than Trigger ever was. But it's also ponderous, and has moments of bizarre design decisions. Chrono Trigger comes off like its creators were walking on air.
But everyone has different opinions, I guess! It's neat to hear there's such a diversity of opinions here about the game--I was expecting a lot of people to chime in about how Chrono Cross was terrible, but there's a diverse set of opinions here about the game. I guess it really is polarizing after all!
What I loved most about Chrono Cross was the atmosphere (which the lovely soundtrack did a lot to convey). There was a surreal, dream-like quality to the adventure with a faint undercurrent of nihilism and hopelessness that made it a very intriguing experience.
The battle system was also a breath of fresh air. I really enjoyed the strategy behind setting up Element trees. The idea of each one only being usable once per battle introduced an interesting level of resource management in battle that you don't often see in RPGs.
A lot of people complain that Chrono Cross is too unlike Chrono Trigger to be called a sequel and it's a sentiment I don't really understand. Why would you want to pay money to play the same game again? I want to experience something fresh and new in a sequel.
The battle system was also a breath of fresh air. I really enjoyed the strategy behind setting up Element trees. The idea of each one only being usable once per battle introduced an interesting level of resource management in battle that you don't often see in RPGs.
A lot of people complain that Chrono Cross is too unlike Chrono Trigger to be called a sequel and it's a sentiment I don't really understand. Why would you want to pay money to play the same game again? I want to experience something fresh and new in a sequel.
author=Sailerius
I want to experience something fresh and new in a sequel.
Final Fantasy X-2 and Final Fantasy XIII-2 are (or soon to be) better than their originators, and were (or soon to be) completely different from the original.
Even Kingdom Hearts changes its battlesystem each game (though sometimes in minor ways, like in II and Birth by Sleep).
Sailerius is right, no one wants to pay to play the same game.
Counter-point: People buy re-releases.
There are merits to new stuff and old stuff. One isn't objectively better than the other. Sometimes its an obvious choice to mix things up and add in something fresh, and some other times it's best to stick to a proven formula and what you know works.
Both has merits and neither train of thought applies 100% of the time.
Both has merits and neither train of thought applies 100% of the time.
