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CloseYou say tomato, I say "Hey, I ordered a cheeseburger!"
(the thread is here http://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/9310/ - Drunken_paladin's post near the end is insightful imho)
(the thread is here http://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/9310/ - Drunken_paladin's post near the end is insightful imho)
author=Link_2112
If your doing silly things like joke credits and random street fighter sound bytes then it's a joke game. It's what most would consider "low brow humor". Putting jarring things in the game for shock value.
A comedy game would be genuinely funny (to the average person). It's achieved by using smart means of comedy; clever dialogue exchanges, humorous situations, play on words... Your game might have some of this.
It seems like your mixing the two, so it comes out as a joke game. Lowest common denominator.
I'm not the arbiter of comedy. These are just my opinions. There is another topic on Comedy Games somewhere in the forum. It's one of the hardest aspects of a game to do right on a broad scale; "comedy" varies from person to person. You say comedy - I say joke.
I guess I'm just interpreting "joke game" as not putting effort into making the game. Sounds like you mean something different.
I throw in cameos mostly to make my town NPCs more entertaining.
I vary up my styles of comedy often. Slapstick. Dramatic irony. Group banter. Cameo spoofs. Nothing grossly obscene, that's pretty much the only thing offlimits for me.
Cozzer
0
As somebody before me already said, comedy is one of the hardest thing to evaluate. So, what I'm about to say is more IMO than ever: I think random cameos actually detract from the "comedy value" of your story, rather than adding to it.
Actually, it's more complicated than that: one or two cameos in the right places can be pretty funny. But too many will destroy immersion in the game world, which is the basis for both comedy and drama.
How many is too many is even more subjective and even more difficult to define, obiviously.
(As I said before, this doesn't count if the fact that characters from many universes meet each other is part of the game world itself)
Actually, it's more complicated than that: one or two cameos in the right places can be pretty funny. But too many will destroy immersion in the game world, which is the basis for both comedy and drama.
How many is too many is even more subjective and even more difficult to define, obiviously.
(As I said before, this doesn't count if the fact that characters from many universes meet each other is part of the game world itself)
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
The fact is that lots of people use things like Street Fighter sounds and naming themselves ten times in the credits in a completely serious way, not realizing it is bad.
Actually I don't think the street fighter sound effects in the video sound bad at all. They were perfectly fitting for a serious action scene. How does using ripped resources automatically equate to low brow humor?
Actually I don't think the street fighter sound effects in the video sound bad at all. They were perfectly fitting for a serious action scene. How does using ripped resources automatically equate to low brow humor?
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=Sauce
In the previous thread I was getting annoyed that people were talking about graphics AT ALL.
This is how the dialogue went in my head.
"Hey guys, here's this action scene with crappy graphics. What do you think?"
"The graphics are crappy."
"I said they were crappy. What about the action?"
"Okay. But the graphics are still crappy."
"I already know that."
"Why can't you take criticism??"
"..."
It surprised the hell out of me how much graphics mattered. Especially when I noticed the standard of writing on some highly rated games was sooo low. I started this thread to hear opinions on how gamers weigh graphics versus everything else.
Uh. Dude. "Action" consists of two parts: graphics (95%), and choreography (5%). Someone started out the thread saying that your choreography was stellar and that was pretty much the end of that. So from then on all that was left to talk about was the graphics.
"How good the action looks" is no different than any other question about "How good X looks" for any given X. There's a small amount of stuff you can do wrong with the order in which things move around, but mostly any useful comment is going to be on the appearance of the individual parts of the scene. I'm really, really not sure what the hell else you want to hear about besides visuals when you're asking how good a visual scene is. Can you maybe give examples of like, four or five different types of comments about "action" without talking about appearance, because that's literally not anything I've ever heard of as a part of game design before, and I still seriously have no idea what you wanted.
author=Dudesoft
Man, with those NPCs I almost think you're going to steal my thunder.
No way. That would require my game to get popular, which it won't. If you made something similar though, I'm morally obligated to try it.
author=LockeZ
Uh. Dude. "Action" consists of two parts: graphics (95%), and choreography (5%). Someone started out the thread saying that your choreography was stellar and that was pretty much the end of that. So from then on all that was left to talk about was the graphics.
Maybe it'll make more sense describing my surprise this way. Why were they talking about the clashing facesets? If there were NO facesets at all, would that have changed ANYTHING about the action? I would say no. Others say it still detracts. Like the cringe factor hurts too much.
How about if there is no dialogue at all. Any difference in the action? Comments about the battle animation clutter, earsplitting noise, dim lighting were fully warranted and were great pieces of advice. I said so.
I get it now that when I post a video, I should expect criticism on EVERYTHING in the video, regardless of how I intended to narrow the discussion.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Well, you didn't ask about the action, you asked, and I quote, "It bothered me that they ... didn't have much to say about the scene itself. Anyway, I wanted to hear what more people have to say about this kind of scene. Is it really too cheesy? A waste of time?" So naturally people talked about every aspect of the scene, and not just the "action", whatever that is.
You didn't answer my question, though. You've named a lot of things you don't want people to talk about, but have yet to fully explain what you do want people to talk about. And your lists of what you don't want people to talk about, as far as I can tell, include every single thing I can think of to talk about. If "the scene" and "action" don't mean graphics to you, then I still have no idea what they mean, because that's what they mean to me.
You didn't answer my question, though. You've named a lot of things you don't want people to talk about, but have yet to fully explain what you do want people to talk about. And your lists of what you don't want people to talk about, as far as I can tell, include every single thing I can think of to talk about. If "the scene" and "action" don't mean graphics to you, then I still have no idea what they mean, because that's what they mean to me.
Well, I wasn't specifically asking for a critique of the scene. I knew the action was well choreographed. And I knew the graphics were really bad. I wanted to know if people found scenes like that entertaining. If it was worthwhile, basically. You could be "impressed" but not like it. Or "unimpressed" but enjoyed it. I wanna know if other people liked it.
THEN, I got comments on how the "action" itself could be improved. Earsplitting noise, ease up. Too much battle animation clutter, try smaller animations or using pictures. Lighting was bad, can't see choreography when it's dark. THOSE were really helpful.
Does it sound silly to ask if people like action cutscenes? It sounds obvious, of course they do! Then I'm like... well why are they so rare? It's not like these gamemakers are lacking in any technical ability. It might be because 2D action is kinda lame. So I ask. Here's an example.
Should probably carry this discussion over to the other thread.
THEN, I got comments on how the "action" itself could be improved. Earsplitting noise, ease up. Too much battle animation clutter, try smaller animations or using pictures. Lighting was bad, can't see choreography when it's dark. THOSE were really helpful.
Does it sound silly to ask if people like action cutscenes? It sounds obvious, of course they do! Then I'm like... well why are they so rare? It's not like these gamemakers are lacking in any technical ability. It might be because 2D action is kinda lame. So I ask. Here's an example.
Should probably carry this discussion over to the other thread.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Ah, okay, that makes more sense with the examples of what you did appreciate hearing. I mentally categorize all those things as simply "graphics," under exactly the same mental category as mapping, animation quality, tileset consistency, and anything else that makes the game look better in any way. But I guess I can see how "choice of graphics" and "utilization of moving graphics" and "utilization of non-moving graphics" are three different subcategories of graphics.
For what it's worth, I will say I enjoyed it. To the point where I actually forgot to pause it and write feedback as I went, because I couldn't stop watching the fight scene. It was not without its share of problems, but nothing is perfect. I think a lot of people thought it was good enough to be worth helping you out with the weaker aspects, they just couldn't figure out what you did and didn't want to hear.
Action cut scenes are rare for two reasons. 1) because people want to play the action, not watch it, and 2) because it's much more work for novices than creating real battles.
For what it's worth, I will say I enjoyed it. To the point where I actually forgot to pause it and write feedback as I went, because I couldn't stop watching the fight scene. It was not without its share of problems, but nothing is perfect. I think a lot of people thought it was good enough to be worth helping you out with the weaker aspects, they just couldn't figure out what you did and didn't want to hear.
Action cut scenes are rare for two reasons. 1) because people want to play the action, not watch it, and 2) because it's much more work for novices than creating real battles.
author=LockeZ
Action cut scenes are rare for two reasons. 1) because people want to play the action, not watch it, and 2) because it's much more work for novices than creating real battles.
Play the action, absolutely. I try hard to program minigames where the "reward" for getting it right is an action sequence.
Is it really more work than creating real battles?? I dug into the databases of some well made games, and I saw some really complicated battle eventing for pretty basic sounding battle features. Dunno, looks rather scary to attempt.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
It depends how good you want your cut scenes to be, compared to how good you want your real battles to be.
For someone who has already finished making all their custom battle features, I'd say a cut scene is probably harder to do well for most people. If making the custom battle features factors into the equation, then the battle is going to be harder no doubt, but typically you only have to do that shit once for the entire game, not once per battle.
For someone who has already finished making all their custom battle features, I'd say a cut scene is probably harder to do well for most people. If making the custom battle features factors into the equation, then the battle is going to be harder no doubt, but typically you only have to do that shit once for the entire game, not once per battle.
TheNecromancer
3160
author=LockeZ
Actually I don't think the street fighter sound effects in the video sound bad at all. They were perfectly fitting for a serious action scene. How does using ripped resources automatically equate to low brow humor?
It's not just a SF sound effect, it's a voice sound byte. It's instantly recognizable and very much out of place. If you think that is perfectly fitting for anything other than a SF game then we have nothing to discuss.
I didn't say using ripped resources automatically equals anything. You did.
Ginseng_Tea
51
OFF_TOPIC:
* read whole topic and the one before it *
Sauce, you are a ridiculous human being.
Might I suggest you step away from the PC and the RM2k for a few days so you can rejoin society by acting in a way that is bearable? When you return, please finish your game. The cutscene leaves me horny for more.
and count your blessings! The praise and comments on your video are good things! Stop biting the hand that helps, you menace!
ON TOPIC:
I have nothing to say that has not been said before.
Visuals are just another piece of the puzzle. Games are a collaborative art form. Each area amplifies the other, resulting in deep immersion.
* read whole topic and the one before it *
Sauce, you are a ridiculous human being.
Might I suggest you step away from the PC and the RM2k for a few days so you can rejoin society by acting in a way that is bearable? When you return, please finish your game. The cutscene leaves me horny for more.
and count your blessings! The praise and comments on your video are good things! Stop biting the hand that helps, you menace!
ON TOPIC:
I have nothing to say that has not been said before.
Visuals are just another piece of the puzzle. Games are a collaborative art form. Each area amplifies the other, resulting in deep immersion.
