I CAN DELVE FOR MILES: WHAT DRAWS YOU TO DUNGEON CRAWLS?

I'm usually a fan of (not drawn out to the nth degree) exploration, so as long as there's treasures (rewards!) and not too many monsters (punishments =( ) I'm happy to play a dungeon crawler. That said, I mostly play games with a good story or at least driving characters.

I'd say my favourite dungeon crawl would be the Ancient Cave in Lufia II. I always enjoyed rushing through the first ten levels, grabbing all the loot and trying to find blue chests (gimmick!) until I got providence. Trying to get to floor 100 of a randomly generated dungeon was always a good distraction from the main quest and the fact that you could open up a New Game++ of the Cave (more gimmicks!) was always fun.

Creating a Dungeon Crawl can be harder than you think. You need to look in to balance a lot, especially if your gimmick is a part of the battle mechanics. That's why I took the easy (easier) route in Dungeon Crawl of having no battles. Though I suppose you could say the game itself is a battle to the end (technically a race, though) or that the character interactions are kinda battles.

I really should finish this game one of these days.

There is a rougelike game that I'm really into called Dungeons of Dredmor. In addition to the fact that skill sets act as "the" method of leveling up since they grant stat boosts based on the skill you choose, I pretty much like the amount of room for potential error you can make on account of the skill system, like picking 7 out 8 of the magic schools and playing on Going Rogue difficulty with permadeath turned on.

^Yes and no. It has real graphics not ascii graphics (thank god) and other modern enhancements like point-and-click interfaces, but gameplay is derived from Rogue. For only $5 on Steam it's worth checking out. You will get some good laughs if nothing else (it's full of humor).

author=flowerthief
^Yes and no. It has real graphics not ascii graphics (thank god) and other modern enhancements like point-and-click interfaces, but gameplay is derived from Rogue. For only $5 on Steam it's worth checking out. You will get some good laughs if nothing else (it's full of humor).

I was...making fun...of the typo.

author=Max McGee
I was...making fun...of the typo.

Then I can't help you. Rouge is too obscure a game even for me to have played. However...I have heard that if you got to the 100th level, a certain item of cosmetics, that at first glance looks like the "pink potion" you have seen a million times already, will start to attack you.

Also this. It's a... strange urge, but when you give me games with these selling points "Create Original Character, Learn all skills, Become godlike" (like Disgaea, Oblivion, etc) I'd probably pick it up even if I don't really give too much damn about the story. I still pick up Dynasty Warrior Empires (which is... kind of pointless hack and slash) to reach the top and beat everyone else, conquer china, look back at how much time I have wasted, realize the repetition, cry inside, and stow it away for another time.

I am the same way, and that's probably why SEVERAL of my games have those selling points.

(I'm definitely not a dynasty warriors fan, but that's neither here nor there.)

author=NewBlack
Urgh, character progression is the lowest common denominator of incentives.

I mean sure, it has its place.. But that place isn't "driving force of game".

It's a major factor in a ton of games though. D&D obviously, but even The Legend of Zelda is hugely about character progression - getting extra Heart Pieces, bottles, the best sword, items from dungeons. It's not outright spelled out for you in XP and Gil but from the start of the game to the end you have a completely different character.

I like seeing my character improve! Mostly because I like the new game mechanics and power-ups. In World of Warcraft, every 10 levels or so you would hit a milestone in your talent tree and you could learn a special ability meant for that tree. They always had some of the coolest abilities and I would work my ass off to earn 'em and afterward, damn did they feel good.

Up to a certain point, it seems like I drank the Kool-Aid and played games for the story cutscenes. I designed strategies to remove as much grinding as possible. In FF7 I would grind, but only enough to get my limit meters near full before a boss. My strategy, for pretty much every boss in the game, was to drop three limit breaks on them in the first round or two, and mop up with Bahamut Zero or Knights of the Round (or whatever my burliest summon at the time happened to be). I was so under leveled on my first trip through, that by the final dungeon I had to run from a lot of stuff, which made it difficult to get my limits up. I only beat the game because of Knights of the Round and a well timed limit break from Cloud, while the rest of his team was confused/turned into frogs by Super Nova.

Since avoiding grind was my main approach, an actual dungeon crawler would probably have given me a stroke at the time.

Morrowind was the first game that really sucked me down the rabbit hole. I had to play it at night, because I had these ridiculous 16 hour shifts where I worked, and more than a few times I played through the whole night and ended up going back to work the next day without sleeping. The main story was there, but it almost didn't feel required at all. I was always looking for new gear in dungeons and barrows, working to level up my skills, and capturing Golden Saints in soul stones to fuel my enchantments. By the end of the game, my character was pretty much God. One amulet with a constant 2-3 point dis-spell enchantment yanked the teeth out of everyone from Ascended Sleepers to Vivec.

Once I started playing more home brew rpgs, I got more and more into grinding for skills. No offense intended, but, story isn't usually the big selling point in indie rpgs. They're usually all about features and mechanics. I've had more fun playing some RMN games than I have with certain commercial ones.

I came to the Shin Megami Tensei universe pretty late, but for me it was just the right time. I don't think I would have been as interested in the games (I know I wouldn't, since I remember reading a pre-view for Nocturne and going 'eh, whatever' several years ago) if I hadn't undergone that mental re-adjustment.

Now, to properly answer the question of what draws me in: I like finding new gear, leveling my team up and mixing skills so that they can handle a wide variety of opponents, I like graphics that are at least serviceable, and I like a steep challenge, so long as I'm able to chop it back down some through diligent training. My brief (all too brief thanks to ps2 failure) experience with Persona 3 has added in a desire for something to do outside of the dungeon, every now and then, especially if it helps me to increase my strength and the efficacy of my skills.

author=NewBlack
Urgh, character progression is the lowest common denominator of incentives.

I mean sure, it has its place.. But that place isn't "driving force of game".

I know a guy who does not care about anything in games except making his characters stronger. The only reason to watch plot events is because you have to get past them to get to the next content where you can get stronger. The only reason to beat bosses is because they give rewards. Everything else in a game is a means to an end; becoming as strong as possible is that end.

I tried to make a topic about this once and the consensus among the few people who responded was basically that almost no one thinks that way. To most people, you get stronger so you can overcome challenges, not the other way around.