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Closeauthor=LockeZ
I think you're neglecting to account for the lurkers. I get the feeling there are thousands of people who visit the forums each month, and even though only a handful of them actually post stuff, a lot more of them read stuff.
Actually, I was a lurker for almost a year before I joined this community. I always look at things from the perspective of the lurker. But you have to assume most lurkers aren't going to get to know you, read your blogs, read the forum, etc. I know when I first joined the things I was drawn to were looking for games that were popular in the community. At the time I was lurking, Legacies of Dondoran and Master of the wind were pretty big, which is why those were my first two reviews.
The other thing that attracted me was the articles on gameplay design, but I assume I was an unusual case in that regard.
So, I guess if you want to look from that perspective, making your game popular among the locals is a good way to get noticed by lurkers. Which I guess contradicts what I was saying earlier!
The only way to get exposure of your own games and to get people to play them is to make your games look nice and pretty and advertise them. We all know that ugly games don't get praise even if they happen to excel in other areas of game design.
I wish I did have an answer to this dilemma, I really do.
But in short the only real advice I can give is to go to where you think your audience is and promote it there. (And sometimes you get lucky and your game gets noticed at the right time.) Is your potential audience here at RMN? Is it the regulars or the passers-by? Can you garner an audience here, or is the audience you seek large enough to begin with?
Maybe the issue isn't with how RMN works or the culture works. Or maybe there is? I am trying to change the culture (and I have already changed how RMN works to some degree) but who knows if I am succeeding, or even if the change is welcome.
But in short the only real advice I can give is to go to where you think your audience is and promote it there. (And sometimes you get lucky and your game gets noticed at the right time.) Is your potential audience here at RMN? Is it the regulars or the passers-by? Can you garner an audience here, or is the audience you seek large enough to begin with?
Maybe the issue isn't with how RMN works or the culture works. Or maybe there is? I am trying to change the culture (and I have already changed how RMN works to some degree) but who knows if I am succeeding, or even if the change is welcome.
Sailerius, ye of the 8000+ downloads: are most of those from outside RMN? Or do you have tactics and methodologies a cut above the rest of us?
(I feel like promoting my game on RMN merely hinders my game development. I feel like the energy it would take to promote my game to outside sites would MUTUALLY EXCLUDE game development. Does anyone else feel this way? Like there is a constant tug of war between creation and promotion. To me, making games is fun, productive and rewarding whereas promoting my games feels like tedious nerve-wracking humiliating drudgery. Nonetheless, after the work of making games is done, if I haven't put in my due diligence on promoting them, the effort made to make them suddenly and retroactively seems like wasted time. Often I will stealth release a mostly or entirely complete project or demo with no prior advertising, and I almost immediately regret the lackluster response--few downloads, little to no discussion. The feeling of "WHAT DID I SPEND THOSE 360 HOURS ON" is palpable.)
I wish that the biggest predictor of whether or not someone cared about a game was whether there was a download, but that simply not the case.)
I don't even know how one would "become" featured. I have actively tried for featured game every single month since September of '08 or whenever it was that Mage Duel was featured. The steps I have taken include making the best games I possibly can and trying to make sure that they get played by the people who decide which game to feature. I don't know what else you can possibly do.
I have had absolutely no success. Even during the time when my games were relatively popular, I never managed to get one featured again. Which is a shame, because being featured is the only big way of getting exposure I know about, and it only seems to happen to games that already have a decent amount of exposure.
I mention this because having a game Featured is the only way I know for sure to significantly increase downloads.
First off, YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW HARD THIS IS. Making my games look better has been my soul focus since 2004 or so. My girlfriend is a talented visual artist who spends half her life in Photoshop. I run everything I make past her before I put it online. People still call it ugly. THIS IS MUCH EASIER SAID THAN DONE.
Secondly YOU ARE VERY RIGHT. My eternal curse seems to be that typically all the reasons that anyone would want to download one of my games are reasons you'd have to download the game to experience.
(I feel like promoting my game on RMN merely hinders my game development. I feel like the energy it would take to promote my game to outside sites would MUTUALLY EXCLUDE game development. Does anyone else feel this way? Like there is a constant tug of war between creation and promotion. To me, making games is fun, productive and rewarding whereas promoting my games feels like tedious nerve-wracking humiliating drudgery. Nonetheless, after the work of making games is done, if I haven't put in my due diligence on promoting them, the effort made to make them suddenly and retroactively seems like wasted time. Often I will stealth release a mostly or entirely complete project or demo with no prior advertising, and I almost immediately regret the lackluster response--few downloads, little to no discussion. The feeling of "WHAT DID I SPEND THOSE 360 HOURS ON" is palpable.)
I wish that the biggest predictor of whether or not someone cared about a game was whether there was a download, but that simply not the case.)
I don't even know how one would "become" featured. I have actively tried for featured game every single month since September of '08 or whenever it was that Mage Duel was featured. The steps I have taken include making the best games I possibly can and trying to make sure that they get played by the people who decide which game to feature. I don't know what else you can possibly do.
I have had absolutely no success. Even during the time when my games were relatively popular, I never managed to get one featured again. Which is a shame, because being featured is the only big way of getting exposure I know about, and it only seems to happen to games that already have a decent amount of exposure.
I mention this because having a game Featured is the only way I know for sure to significantly increase downloads.
The only way to get exposure of your own games and to get people to play them is to make your games look nice and pretty and advertise them. We all know that ugly games don't get praise even if they happen to excel in other areas of game design.
First off, YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW HARD THIS IS. Making my games look better has been my soul focus since 2004 or so. My girlfriend is a talented visual artist who spends half her life in Photoshop. I run everything I make past her before I put it online. People still call it ugly. THIS IS MUCH EASIER SAID THAN DONE.
Secondly YOU ARE VERY RIGHT. My eternal curse seems to be that typically all the reasons that anyone would want to download one of my games are reasons you'd have to download the game to experience.
Max McGee
I mean, the biggest philosophical question I have is definitely "WHY IS THERE SUCH A STIGMA ASSOCIATED WITH WANTING PEOPLE TO PLAY YOUR GAME, WHEN IT'S THE ONE THING WE ALL HAVE IN COMMON" but I don't feel ready to address it yet.
This is something kentona and I have had some dialogue about. I'm not sure if we've really managed to do anything about it, but it's finals week so no fucks are given at this time. Also, I'm a supervillain. I'm trying to ruin the site.
Personally, I haven't released anything for a good while so I don't really feel comfortable answering this topic. I also think that my infamy as a supervillain both preceded my RMN joining and stalks me like a shadow, so I just kind of have my own ball of attraction and rejection. I AM A NUCLEUS.
Re: NICE AND PRETTY, I feel that games should be at least "average" in all areas, so... yeah. I also have the strong viewpoint of wanting to make/play (this is going to sound uber-elitist, I need some better terms) "indie" games, not "amateur" games. I really do not care about My Draconic Legend V; I'm not going to bother with it positively or negatively.
Gimmicks & Novelty. That is all.
Your potentially amazing content only becomes important later when novelty and gimmick has worn off.
Your potentially amazing content only becomes important later when novelty and gimmick has worn off.
author=NewBlackCounter-point: http://rpgmaker.net/games/3640/
Gimmicks & Novelty. That is all.
Your potentially amazing content only becomes important later when novelty and gimmick has worn off.
This game is getting ignored.
and this game: http://rpgmaker.net/games/3663/
/me waits for kentona to twist the knife.
I guess I'll elaborate a little though. I think most of us are pretty shallow at first when we're looking at games on rmn. We judge on looks, gimmicks, novelty - we're looking for something a least a little different or nicer to what we've played a billion times before. If a game doesn't come across that way then it doesn't get many downloads/much interest I guess.
AFTER THAT. If the game can't deliver in terms of "the stuff that really matters" (you know, whatever you think that is.. People probably differ a lot here.. But call it the "meat" or "substance" or "depth" of "gameplay experience" etc etc)
Then it'll get plays but will probably get negative reviews for "wasting people's time" and being "all style and no substance" etc etc.
I guess I'll elaborate a little though. I think most of us are pretty shallow at first when we're looking at games on rmn. We judge on looks, gimmicks, novelty - we're looking for something a least a little different or nicer to what we've played a billion times before. If a game doesn't come across that way then it doesn't get many downloads/much interest I guess.
AFTER THAT. If the game can't deliver in terms of "the stuff that really matters" (you know, whatever you think that is.. People probably differ a lot here.. But call it the "meat" or "substance" or "depth" of "gameplay experience" etc etc)
Then it'll get plays but will probably get negative reviews for "wasting people's time" and being "all style and no substance" etc etc.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Quoted from other topic for relevance:
I downloaded and played The Lost Girls because it was pretty. I fully admit it. It's kind of amazing that it doesn't have more downloads considering how pretty it is. But its only an hour long demo, so I guess 150 downloads is actually a fair amount.
On the other hand, most of the other games I've downloaded have pretty much all been either because they were made by someone from the community who I respected, or because they were recommended by someone from the community who I respected. Those two cases added together probably account for 90% of my downloads.
author=Lucidstillness
Visuals and presentation are what make a person want to play an RPG.
Gameplay is what makes a person want to keep playing an RPG.
Storyline and music are what will make a person want to remember an RPG.
I downloaded and played The Lost Girls because it was pretty. I fully admit it. It's kind of amazing that it doesn't have more downloads considering how pretty it is. But its only an hour long demo, so I guess 150 downloads is actually a fair amount.
On the other hand, most of the other games I've downloaded have pretty much all been either because they were made by someone from the community who I respected, or because they were recommended by someone from the community who I respected. Those two cases added together probably account for 90% of my downloads.
author=Max McGee
First off, YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW HARD THIS IS. Making my games look better has been my soul focus since 2004 or so. My girlfriend is a talented visual artist who spends half her life in Photoshop. I run everything I make past her before I put it online. People still call it ugly. THIS IS MUCH EASIER SAID THAN DONE.
Secondly YOU ARE VERY RIGHT. My eternal curse seems to be that typically all the reasons that anyone would want to download one of my games are reasons you'd have to download the game to experience.
Are you kidding me Max? I'm also a fellow game developer like yourself. I'm not an accomplished artist either, I manage because I've been practicing for so long. I started making my own battle charsets back in the OLD GamingW days, you learn a thing or two editing charsets and reading/looking at tutorials.
I bet the amount of time you spend writing (or whatever it is that you do), if you were to invest all that time into spriting you would be a brilliant artist no doubt, your games would look fabulous and you would get all the praise/exposure/recognition that you could ever wish for.
Humans are visually perceptive if we see something we find attractive we can't help but be more interested in it, thats why one of the main concerns is getting your game to look nice. I don't sugarcoat shit and feed it to people, everyone knows that having a nice looking game is what gets the audience interested in the first place. A game should be strong in all areas of game design which are, story, gameplay and graphics but developers must understand that it's mostly the visual presentation that gets the audience interested and according to the gaming industry it makes the moniessssssss.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=Max McGee
Secondly YOU ARE VERY RIGHT. My eternal curse seems to be that typically all the reasons that anyone would want to download one of my games are reasons you'd have to download the game to experience.
Try making trailer videos. I saw this indie game trailer recently for example, and instead of showing graphics or 2 second splashes of action, it shows the controls, complexity and thought process behind the core gameplay.
Try making trailer videos. I saw this indie game trailer recently for example, and instead of showing graphics or 2 second splashes of action, it shows the controls, complexity and thought process behind the core gameplay.
I've actually been thinking about that a lot lately!
That said, this topic is certainly about much more than me, in scope.
Cozzer
0
author=Max
I feel like promoting my game on RMN merely hinders my game development. I feel like the energy it would take to promote my game to outside sites would MUTUALLY EXCLUDE game development. Does anyone else feel this way?
I still didn't do anything on this site, and I don't think I'm actually good at it, but I find promoting my works almost as fun as creating them.
It's an art in itself, and it's pretty sad to see it so looked down upon by "purists".
I don't mean to look down on it, I'm just saying I personally find it stressful, not enjoyable.
By the way, Lockez, gunpoint looks AMAZING.
By the way, Lockez, gunpoint looks AMAZING.
I think I am a terrible person to answer this since when it comes to "promoting" there is very little rhyme or reason to what I plan, plus I am a worthless sap without game downloads so take these answers with a huge mountain of salt.
Edit: And also having read responses now I think my post can be summed up as
1) What actions do you perceive as actions you can take to increase the number of people here on RMN who are paying attention to your game? Be specific.
Stragetically posting screenshots and blogs around times when people are likely to see them through casual browsing. Mostly screenshots; I really doubt too many people read blogs. Getting friends to post on your game and bump it up into the buzzing section, having pretty art and something that at least looks interesting. Snazzy gamepage formatting can also help make one stand out from the crowd.
2) Which of those actions are you taking, and which are you not taking?
None, at the moment! I have stopped posting screenshots since I, personally, get annoyed when people upload 50 billion screens of like two areas, or screens that are nothing but various maps, since I like to see the gameplay in action when I look at screens, or interesting bits of dialogue or something. I talk to two-three people, so...definitely not bothering with asking friends to post in an effort to buzz. With my current projects and past projects, I have paradoxically found that I want attention, but as soon as actually get attention I spiral into a pile of anxiety and bitterness. So lately I am not even bothering with promotion.
3) In your viewpoint, do you consider any of the possible actions available to you to be unethical, immoral, or in poor taste?
Not really! Maybe the "asking friends to post on your game" thing.
4) If so, why?
Thinking about it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. But this might just be because I haven't brushed my teeth.
5) If so, do you avoid those actions, or grit your teeth and do it anyway?
See: Knowing 2-3 people. Why bother? It wouldn't accomplish much of anything!
6) Are there any other reasons you have for not taking actions that you think would bring more attention to your game?
Mostly being hyper-aware of attention. I don't want it because it will inevitably fuck up my work flow, which makes me feel like the attention is undeserved, and it pretty much is without a game to back anything up, and worrying about it messes up my work flow, so... vicious cycle.
7) Alright, enough about what you're not doing. Tell us more about what you ARE doing to promote your game and how it's working for you. Be honest and direct!
With my current project I think the only reason it's gotten a mild amount of recognition is the graphics. They're slightly above average, at best, and it's not like people can experience the gameplay at the moment. Even the graphics look pretty funky and lack a coherent aesthetic, so I am not sure how well it is working!
8) Are there any events that you feel could influence the amount of attention you're getting that are beyond your control? Tell us about them.
Off the top of my head, getting featured for just about anything, or being in the buzzing section for a while. Extended exposure on the front page means more people likely to find your game via casual browsing/visiting the site, and it's not like you can control either. (Well, slightly less true with the buzzing!) Also how long your recent screenshot uploads stay in the "latest screenshots", since that's also front page exposure.
9) Have you ever successfully "gamed the system" in an attempt to influence an event outside of your direct control? Were you successful?
Not that I know of! If I have, good for me?
Edit: And also having read responses now I think my post can be summed up as
author=Max McGee
I'm just saying I personally find it stressful, not enjoyable.
1) What actions do you perceive as actions you can take to increase the number of people here on RMN who are paying attention to your game? Be specific.
Stragetically posting screenshots and blogs around times when people are likely to see them through casual browsing. Mostly screenshots; I really doubt too many people read blogs. Getting friends to post on your game and bump it up into the buzzing section, having pretty art and something that at least looks interesting. Snazzy gamepage formatting can also help make one stand out from the crowd.
2) Which of those actions are you taking, and which are you not taking?
None, at the moment! I have stopped posting screenshots since I, personally, get annoyed when people upload 50 billion screens of like two areas, or screens that are nothing but various maps, since I like to see the gameplay in action when I look at screens, or interesting bits of dialogue or something. I talk to two-three people, so...definitely not bothering with asking friends to post in an effort to buzz. With my current projects and past projects, I have paradoxically found that I want attention, but as soon as actually get attention I spiral into a pile of anxiety and bitterness. So lately I am not even bothering with promotion.
3) In your viewpoint, do you consider any of the possible actions available to you to be unethical, immoral, or in poor taste?
Not really! Maybe the "asking friends to post on your game" thing.
4) If so, why?
Thinking about it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. But this might just be because I haven't brushed my teeth.
5) If so, do you avoid those actions, or grit your teeth and do it anyway?
See: Knowing 2-3 people. Why bother? It wouldn't accomplish much of anything!
6) Are there any other reasons you have for not taking actions that you think would bring more attention to your game?
Mostly being hyper-aware of attention. I don't want it because it will inevitably fuck up my work flow, which makes me feel like the attention is undeserved, and it pretty much is without a game to back anything up, and worrying about it messes up my work flow, so... vicious cycle.
7) Alright, enough about what you're not doing. Tell us more about what you ARE doing to promote your game and how it's working for you. Be honest and direct!
With my current project I think the only reason it's gotten a mild amount of recognition is the graphics. They're slightly above average, at best, and it's not like people can experience the gameplay at the moment. Even the graphics look pretty funky and lack a coherent aesthetic, so I am not sure how well it is working!
8) Are there any events that you feel could influence the amount of attention you're getting that are beyond your control? Tell us about them.
Off the top of my head, getting featured for just about anything, or being in the buzzing section for a while. Extended exposure on the front page means more people likely to find your game via casual browsing/visiting the site, and it's not like you can control either. (Well, slightly less true with the buzzing!) Also how long your recent screenshot uploads stay in the "latest screenshots", since that's also front page exposure.
9) Have you ever successfully "gamed the system" in an attempt to influence an event outside of your direct control? Were you successful?
Not that I know of! If I have, good for me?
*takes a deep breath*
This issue is way more complex than it seems. Lots of things to take into consideration.
First, it's worthy to point out that the mechanisms of RMN have lots of ways to make people find and remember your game.
- If it's awesome, it gets featured.
- If it gets a download, it goes to the front page for a while.
- If you post screenshots, it goes to the front page for a while.
- If there's anything interesting about it, people may subscribe and be reminded that the game exists every time you post something.
- If it's tagged, it can be searched.
- If it's reviewed, it goes to the front page.
- If you post a blog, it gets frontpaged.
- If it gets a post, it goes to the feed page.
- If there's anything interesting about it, it may become a gem and get frontpaged.
- There are informal topics that can be used as ways to promote games. For example, I suggested the original "what RMN game are you playing right now?" topic, because it's a way to tell people about cool RMN games. I think the topic is dead though. Topics like "guess that RMN game" have the same function, they're not just for fun.
- Events may work as tools to make people play your game. Secret Santa is one of them. At the very least, you'll be getting one people to play your game and a review. But if your game is any good, it's bound to get attention from more people.
So, the thing is, in terms of site mechanics, I really don't think there's anything wrong. RMN4 had great improvements upon this. Your game will pop up every now and then, unless it's ultra boring and uninteresting.
Like I was saying on irc earlier, I think the whole problem is based on a premise that is probably false. And that premise is: there are a lot of players eager to play your game (and by your game I mean, any game), and they're just not playing it because they have not heard about it. IF that was the case, it all comes down to publicity. Just make sure they hear about your game. There are really no secret tricks to promote games inside RMN. Just update it frequently, talk about it all the time.
I'm not sure that premise is true, though. I think some games don't get many downloads simply because most people don't want to play it. I have a game here that's almost 1 year old (DIE2DANCE), and it has 193 downloads. It's not OMGAWZM game, but it's pretty cool FOR PEOPLE WHO LIKE THAT SORT OF GAMES. They're not many. If all of RMN members who like weird DDR games heard about it magically, I don't the download count would not rise much. On the other hand, there's this FF fangame made in 4 hours with terrible RTP graphics that has twice as many downloads. I'm pretty sure the author made no effort to promote it either. It's a FF game, people WANT.
I have the 2nd top downloaded game in RMN, so I can speak a little for experience. I never promoted BE:D inside RMN in any unusual way... it was part of a contest, so we talked about it there, etc. It got a little attention here because it was about torture etc. Feeling like I wasn't getting enough attention, I posted it on RRR too. Not much attention there either. So one day this guy from IndieReview found this game, and wrote a cool review. Another guy found it (probably from IndieReview, not from RMN or RRR) and wrote another review. And another, and another, and so on. Once it got to RPS, everyone was talking about it. People tell me "you're great at promoting your games", but I do not promote them. And by this I don't mean "my games are awesome". I mean "it followed the right path". You (Max) created the topic saying "this is not about the fallacy of people play better games", and "not about getting attention outside RMN", but if you take these two things out, it doesn't leave much to be discussed.
Taking an example, Wither. It's a cool game, and generated some initial discussion. I can unhumbly say that I helped at getting at least half of its downloads. I told about it to a friend who had a blog about games, and his blog is partner with some important blogs. Soon Wither got at least 3 amazing features on external sites (not counting ones I had nothing to do with). That's didn't happend because "I have important friends", but because of the game's qualities. So yes, it has everything to do with the game being good, even though I understand how relative the word "good" is.
Lastly, I don't agree with your idea that "the energy it would take to promote my game to outside sites would MUTUALLY EXCLUDE game development.". Promoting really doesn't take that much energy if you do it RIGHT. You just have to find the right audience.
Afterlastly, I think the only internal action we could take to improve on this is having more gameplaying events (like secret santa), as opposed to gamemaking events (like Game Gale or RSD). This discussion existed once. We need to create a culture of having people play other people's games. I rarely play any games, and from what I hear from regular RMN members, a lot of them don't play many games too. I don't see you (Max) talking much about RMN games you played either. How can we expect other RMN members/users to be more active as players if we are not?
This issue is way more complex than it seems. Lots of things to take into consideration.
First, it's worthy to point out that the mechanisms of RMN have lots of ways to make people find and remember your game.
- If it's awesome, it gets featured.
- If it gets a download, it goes to the front page for a while.
- If you post screenshots, it goes to the front page for a while.
- If there's anything interesting about it, people may subscribe and be reminded that the game exists every time you post something.
- If it's tagged, it can be searched.
- If it's reviewed, it goes to the front page.
- If you post a blog, it gets frontpaged.
- If it gets a post, it goes to the feed page.
- If there's anything interesting about it, it may become a gem and get frontpaged.
- There are informal topics that can be used as ways to promote games. For example, I suggested the original "what RMN game are you playing right now?" topic, because it's a way to tell people about cool RMN games. I think the topic is dead though. Topics like "guess that RMN game" have the same function, they're not just for fun.
- Events may work as tools to make people play your game. Secret Santa is one of them. At the very least, you'll be getting one people to play your game and a review. But if your game is any good, it's bound to get attention from more people.
So, the thing is, in terms of site mechanics, I really don't think there's anything wrong. RMN4 had great improvements upon this. Your game will pop up every now and then, unless it's ultra boring and uninteresting.
Like I was saying on irc earlier, I think the whole problem is based on a premise that is probably false. And that premise is: there are a lot of players eager to play your game (and by your game I mean, any game), and they're just not playing it because they have not heard about it. IF that was the case, it all comes down to publicity. Just make sure they hear about your game. There are really no secret tricks to promote games inside RMN. Just update it frequently, talk about it all the time.
I'm not sure that premise is true, though. I think some games don't get many downloads simply because most people don't want to play it. I have a game here that's almost 1 year old (DIE2DANCE), and it has 193 downloads. It's not OMGAWZM game, but it's pretty cool FOR PEOPLE WHO LIKE THAT SORT OF GAMES. They're not many. If all of RMN members who like weird DDR games heard about it magically, I don't the download count would not rise much. On the other hand, there's this FF fangame made in 4 hours with terrible RTP graphics that has twice as many downloads. I'm pretty sure the author made no effort to promote it either. It's a FF game, people WANT.
I have the 2nd top downloaded game in RMN, so I can speak a little for experience. I never promoted BE:D inside RMN in any unusual way... it was part of a contest, so we talked about it there, etc. It got a little attention here because it was about torture etc. Feeling like I wasn't getting enough attention, I posted it on RRR too. Not much attention there either. So one day this guy from IndieReview found this game, and wrote a cool review. Another guy found it (probably from IndieReview, not from RMN or RRR) and wrote another review. And another, and another, and so on. Once it got to RPS, everyone was talking about it. People tell me "you're great at promoting your games", but I do not promote them. And by this I don't mean "my games are awesome". I mean "it followed the right path". You (Max) created the topic saying "this is not about the fallacy of people play better games", and "not about getting attention outside RMN", but if you take these two things out, it doesn't leave much to be discussed.
Taking an example, Wither. It's a cool game, and generated some initial discussion. I can unhumbly say that I helped at getting at least half of its downloads. I told about it to a friend who had a blog about games, and his blog is partner with some important blogs. Soon Wither got at least 3 amazing features on external sites (not counting ones I had nothing to do with). That's didn't happend because "I have important friends", but because of the game's qualities. So yes, it has everything to do with the game being good, even though I understand how relative the word "good" is.
Lastly, I don't agree with your idea that "the energy it would take to promote my game to outside sites would MUTUALLY EXCLUDE game development.". Promoting really doesn't take that much energy if you do it RIGHT. You just have to find the right audience.
Afterlastly, I think the only internal action we could take to improve on this is having more gameplaying events (like secret santa), as opposed to gamemaking events (like Game Gale or RSD). This discussion existed once. We need to create a culture of having people play other people's games. I rarely play any games, and from what I hear from regular RMN members, a lot of them don't play many games too. I don't see you (Max) talking much about RMN games you played either. How can we expect other RMN members/users to be more active as players if we are not?
calunio
I have the 2nd top downloaded game in RMN, so I can speak a little for experience. I never promoted BE:D inside RMN in any unusual way... it was part of a contest, so we talked about it there, etc. It got a little attention here because it was about torture etc. Feeling like I wasn't getting enough attention, I posted it on RRR too. Not much attention there either. So one day this guy from IndieReview found this game, and wrote a cool review. Another guy found it (probably from IndieReview, not from RMN or RRR) and wrote another review. And another, and another, and so on. Once it got to RPS, everyone was talking about it. People tell me "you're great at promoting your games", but I do not promote them. And by this I don't mean "my games are awesome". I mean "it followed the right path". You (Max) created the topic saying "this is not about the fallacy of people play better games", and "not about getting attention outside RMN", but if you take these two things out, it doesn't leave much to be discussed.
Taking an example, Wither. It's a cool game, and generated some initial discussion. I can unhumbly say that I helped at getting at least half of its downloads. I told about it to a friend who had a blog about games, and his blog is partner with some important blogs. Soon Wither got at least 3 amazing features on external sites (not counting ones I had nothing to do with). That's didn't happend because "I have important friends", but because of the game's qualities. So yes, it has everything to do with the game being good, even though I understand how relative the word "good" is.
These paragraphs are complete, unfiltered truth.
V&V has ~3/4ths the downloads that BE:D does (which is still a sizable amount; V&V is the 5th-most downloaded. Interesting: it has more page views than BE:D, but not by much; probably an age thing), so I can say this: taking outside influence out of this topic is pretty silly.
Even with lurkers, there are only so many people on RMN, and very, very few of them post anywhere. More posters would be great, yes, but the truth is that Hero's Realm, Beautiful Escape: Dungeoneer, Legionwood: Tale Of The Two Swords, Visions & Voices, and Legacies of Dondoran have all been featured outside of RMN. V&V technically has more downloads (as is likely the same for the other games) off of RMN, as it's mirrored in a shitton of places.
You quoted me yourself: RMN is an incestuous cesspool. As supervillain I can say that, but beyond "being a dick is fun," it's the poop-smeared reality.
