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Max McGee
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CloseCraze, I think that promoting your game elsewhere than RMN is a valid topic, and definitely deserves discussion, and should have its own thread. But this is not that thread. Okay?
Think of it as "foreign policy" versus "domestic affairs". This is a domestic issues topic.
Think of it as "foreign policy" versus "domestic affairs". This is a domestic issues topic.
I don't see much of a domestic citizenship is the thing. You're asking 30-50 people to give your game thousands of downloads.
I mean, you could just go to the stats topic yourself. We have 19,579 users total, including dead people, Brickroad, and the slots machine of admins. Of those, I'm saying that about 30-50 are an actual, posting presence on more than just their own gamepage or one post a month.
I might be wrong on that number, I don't have spyware tapping into RMN yet. Still, 200 people aren't going to magically download your game 8,000 times.
I might be wrong on that number, I don't have spyware tapping into RMN yet. Still, 200 people aren't going to magically download your game 8,000 times.
author=Solitayre
The other thing that attracted me was the articles on gameplay design, but I assume I was an unusual case in that regard.
The articles on game design make me come back once in a while, because they're usually quite solid. Maybe I should write some myself, but my advice tends to come off in unfiltered bullet points instead of long discussions on a single topic.
Anywho, there's been a recent trend in indie games in general (the big, for-profit ones) that has created a 1% in the indie community (hint, there's large contributor for that and its name rhymes with "Shteam"). Not that I blame Steam or any indies who get on there, but for those who don't, well, good luck. As indie games are a dime a dozen not only do you have to rock out, you have to rock out hard to get people to even look.
As far as suggestions go, I think a forum board for newly released/demoing games would be appropriate. Yes, each game has their own blog for this purpose already. But I can say for certain that the informal forum-style would encourage me to look at more games (each game with its own topic if the creator makes one), because it's integrated into what I already do. It's not perfect, but maybe it'd help.
author=Craze
I might be wrong on that number, I don't have spyware tapping into RMN yet. Still, 200 people aren't going to magically download your game 8,000 times.
I wonder if there's any way to increase this, then...
slashphoenix
As far as suggestions go, I think a forum board for newly released/demoing games would be appropriate. Yes, each game has their own blog for this purpose already. But I can say for certain that the informal forum-style would encourage me to look at more games (each game with its own topic if the creator makes one), because it's integrated into what I already do. It's not perfect, but maybe it'd help.
Or not. We have an incredible amount of game-sharing, blog-sharing, article-sharing, review-sharing, etc. on the front page. If the front page could be merged with the forums more, that would be ideal. We do not need your idea when we have all the tools already... they're just in the concentration camp of the front page.
Personally, my RMN bookmark is set to the front page so I can see the latest reviews and whatnot. If your RMN bookmark is set to the forums, you guys are part of the problem!
Re: attracting members to the site: this is a site about games, how about we release cool games and show them off outside the incestuous cesspool? Catching 1% of the viewers on calunio or I's major projects alone would be incredible.
author=Max McGee
RMN has significantly more users than that. Kentona, stats?
Let me know what metric you want to define "user activity" and I can let you know some stats.
I can tell you that 411 people have a last login date that is greater than Dec 1st, 2011.
Since I don't have any games on RMN, I can't really give any insight into advertising. I know part of WIP's original vision was to make RMN different from all of the other RPGMaker sites by breaking the "our site is only a forum" mold and moving games into game pages. I think game pages is one of the things that makes RMN unique and forum topics on games is probably not something that RMN would do.
I know kentona is always looking for ways to improve the site and game visibility overall, so I'm sure he'd welcome most ideas you guys come up with!
author=Max McGeeThe actual download count for Act I is somewhere in the vicinity of 1.1 million. The vast majority of the traffic I receive goes to the Vacant Sky website, not RMN. Of the RM sites where I've posted, the RMN one gets the most traffic, which I wager is because it's the first one to show up when you make a google search for it. I don't really do much advertising. A lot of it has come from networking I've done IRL (attending local independent developer gatherings and conferences, presenting at school CS and game dev functions), which has gotten people in my area to start talking about it. Also, something to keep in mind that makes Vacant Sky's download count seem a lot more understandable is that it was in active development since 2005/2006 - back when RMXP.net was still around. I've been posting regular updates and demos since then, so it's only natural that it's built up a following in the ungodly number of years it took to get this far. I'm sure a lot of the interest is out of the sheer "I can't believe this actually came out" factor.
Sailerius, ye of the 8000+ downloads: are most of those from outside RMN? Or do you have tactics and methodologies a cut above the rest of us?
author=supremewarrior
The only way to get exposure of your own games and to get people to play them is to make your games look nice and pretty and advertise them. We all know that ugly games don't get praise even if they happen to excel in other areas of game design.
I tried to sell this idea a few weeks ago. Of course, I have no prior work or demo to support it.
The general response was that people (from experience and for good reason), assume that gamemakers who can't make their game pretty won't excel at the other areas.
My angle was that being a quality gamemaker has nothing to do with 'other' things that are needed for making games.
Like writing. Or... directing. When the gamer isn't actively playing the game, they're watching it. Now, it's a movie, and the gamemaker needs to be a director. And if your directing blows, that emotional death scene you intended might end up winning a razzie instead of an oscar.
And I imagine I might get some heat for this one, but I tried that one "movie" rpg some people were talking about. Quintessense Blight something. Oh, GOD that was horrible directing. It was pretty, but oh lord.
@Max
I might be able to give some insight as a newcomer/outsider. It did influence me that a particular person is an active and respected member of the community. This is just because I click on their profiles and see what games they made.
Would I miss hidden gems if I only looked at prominent gamemaker's games? Yeah, of course. But I really don't have the time and energies to do thorough searching. I'd rather mak gam or whatever y'all been saying. I wouldn't be particularly surprised if many lurkers do the same.
I found out three things pretty quickly.
A.) Total number of downloads is a really poor indicator of a game's quality.
B.) It's not the game design concept or whatever that makes a game good. It's the game maker. 100%.
C.) People have vastly different opinions than mine of what they look for in games. So I don't take any recommendations for games seriously.
You come to this site, and there are thousands and thousands of games. You're not gonna play them all. Hell, you're not gonna even look at all their game profiles. How can you expect a potential gamer to get hooked in if they don't even see your gamepage? Stuff like front page links, misaos, features is guaranteed to have an influence.
It's like anything with marketing. Your product may be totally awesome or may be the suck. Either way, no one's gonna try it unless they know it exists first. But that's for most games. As for the uber popular stuff featured on multiple sites, I dunno.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=ankylo
Let me know what metric you want to define "user activity" and I can let you know some stats.
I can tell you that 411 people have a last login date that is greater than Dec 1st, 2011.
Is that user accounts, or IP addresses? I'm sure a lot of regular visitors log on from multiple places, but I also assume most web surfers who get linked to the site and just want to download a game don't create accounts.
"Visits from unique users" plus "Visits from unique IP addresses that no user has ever signed in from" would probably be a pretty accurate metric. Though I assume that second part is a hard stat to get and isn't automatically tracked.
author=Max McGee
I don't even know how one would "become" featured. I have actively tried for featured game every single month since September of '08 or whenever it was that Mage Duel was featured. The steps I have taken include making the best games I possibly can and trying to make sure that they get played by the people who decide which game to feature. I don't know what else you can possibly do.
I have had absolutely no success. Even during the time when my games were relatively popular, I never managed to get one featured again. Which is a shame, because being featured is the only big way of getting exposure I know about, and it only seems to happen to games that already have a decent amount of exposure.
I mention this because having a game Featured is the only way I know for sure to significantly increase downloads.
This is something I have thought a lot about. For the last few years, a small minority of users have held a huge amount of influence over what gets featured. Last year there was a huge uproar that the greater userbase have a say in what gets featured, and in theory, they do, but... in reality, it is usually still the same few users it always was because they were the only ones who ever spoke up about it in the first place.
Anyway, here are some good ways to try to get your game featured:
Finish your game! Most features are finished games. Episodic games or games no longer being worked on rarely get featured. Games still in active development almost never do. The reason that super awesome magnum opus projects rarely get featured is most people don't finish them. When someone does complete a magnum opus, like AAG, the result speaks for itself.
Contest games are excellent feature candidates. They are completed games, they are usually short and easily digestible, they have a certain amount of hype surrounding them already. Contest winners almost always get featured.
Short games are good feature candidates. People like short games that are easy to play and not a huge time investment. They're more likely to play it, and thus more likely to say good things about it. They're also easier to finish!
Featured games usually need to be artistically or visually interesting, distinct, or novel in some way. Games with unique artstyles are liable to get featured on that basis alone ,even if the rest of the game sucks
author=Solitayre
Featured games usually need to be artistically or visually interesting, distinct, or novel in some way. Games with unique artstyles are liable to get featured on that basis alone ,even if the rest of the game sucksbecause people are judging it on the screenshots anyway.People flip their lids if anything with RTP gets featured.
Kind of the reason I started a riot arguing the necessity of visuals. Bad writing/bad gameplay is just as 'unacceptable,' whatever that means for an indie game.
Featured games usually need to be artistically or visually interesting, distinct, or novel in some way. Games with unique artstyles are liable to get featured on that basis alone ,even if the rest of the game sucks because people are judging it on the screenshots anyway. People flip their lids if anything with RTP gets featured.
This rule must have been added years after Mage Duel was featured.
All in all, I'm not a fan of it.
I know exactly the kind of "people" who flip their lids over anything with RTP getting featured, and fuck them.
Finish your game! Most features are finished games. Episodic games or games no longer being worked on rarely get featured. Games still in active development almost never do. The reason that super awesome magnum opus projects rarely get featured is most people don't finish them. When someone does complete a magnum opus, like AAG, the result speaks for itself.
If only it was this easy. Anyway, I'm working on it.
I'm sure "DON'T HAVE OVER FORTY ACTIVE PROJECTS FOR POTENTIAL FANS TO DIVIDE THEIR LIMITED ATTENTION AMONG" would probably be good advice too, lol.
Darken
3952
author=Soli
Featured games usually need to be artistically or visually interesting, distinct, or novel in some way. Games with unique artstyles are liable to get featured on that basis alone ,even if the rest of the game sucks because people are judging it on the screenshots anyway. People flip their lids if anything with RTP gets featured.
I think you let the "Fables of Heroes" incident influence you too much on how you perceive this community. The lack of clarity on what the featured game should be at the time and other factors led to the demise of a staff chosen system filled with people who didn't really care except for 2-3 guys. Can we get past this?
I mean, Demon Tower was featured at one point for some awkward reason. That game is upsized 2k3 RTP. Shit, son, #shump upped and left finally so I think we can do whatever we -
oh right we always could, #shump just managed to control everything because they were all part of WIP's elitist club that formed after #rm2k disintegrated
RMN POLITICS: god fucking damn I have been here for far too long
oh right we always could, #shump just managed to control everything because they were all part of WIP's elitist club that formed after #rm2k disintegrated
RMN POLITICS: god fucking damn I have been here for far too long
1) What actions do you perceive as actions you can take to increase the number of people here on RMN who are paying attention to your game? Be specific.
Blog posts and screenshots I guess. I get excitable when I do progress :X
2) Which of those actions are you taking, and which are you not taking?
None. If they find it, that's great!
3) In your viewpoint, do you consider any of the possible actions available to you to be unethical, immoral, or in poor taste?
*Asking your friends to post on your game. (50-50) I mean some deserves a bump and as a friend you'd like to support I guess :)
*Asking people to make TVTropes page for you instead of your "fans" so to speak.
*Advertising on other people's gamepages/threads/etc.
4) If so, why?
TVtropes should have entries where the fans actually enjoyed the game to the point they pick through it like crazy to find memorable tropes/etc.
Advertising is obvious while the asking a friend feels fake. Not that it's super evil or anything but yeah.
5) If so, do you avoid those actions, or grit your teeth and do it anyway?
I only know of some who does this but I barely care :X
6) Are there any other reasons you have for not taking actions that you think would bring more attention to your game?
I make games...for fun and for myself. It's the creative process that matters to me.
7) Alright, enough about what you're not doing. Tell us more about what you ARE doing to promote your game and how it's working for you. Be honest and direct!
Posting dev process, graphics and honestly the reason I update is to hope people get inspired and work on their own games more. We had this before in Cloudreach where we got inspired massively by skie's work ethic and in turn made us more active in game dev. That's the same feeling I wanted to achieve.
8) Are there any events that you feel could influence the amount of attention you're getting that are beyond your control? Tell us about them.
Buzzing section and development spotlight, maybe.
9) Have you ever successfully "gamed the system" in an attempt to influence an event outside of your direct control? Were you successful?
I do not understand 'D');;;
Blog posts and screenshots I guess. I get excitable when I do progress :X
2) Which of those actions are you taking, and which are you not taking?
None. If they find it, that's great!
3) In your viewpoint, do you consider any of the possible actions available to you to be unethical, immoral, or in poor taste?
*Asking your friends to post on your game. (50-50) I mean some deserves a bump and as a friend you'd like to support I guess :)
*Asking people to make TVTropes page for you instead of your "fans" so to speak.
*Advertising on other people's gamepages/threads/etc.
4) If so, why?
TVtropes should have entries where the fans actually enjoyed the game to the point they pick through it like crazy to find memorable tropes/etc.
Advertising is obvious while the asking a friend feels fake. Not that it's super evil or anything but yeah.
5) If so, do you avoid those actions, or grit your teeth and do it anyway?
I only know of some who does this but I barely care :X
6) Are there any other reasons you have for not taking actions that you think would bring more attention to your game?
I make games...for fun and for myself. It's the creative process that matters to me.
7) Alright, enough about what you're not doing. Tell us more about what you ARE doing to promote your game and how it's working for you. Be honest and direct!
Posting dev process, graphics and honestly the reason I update is to hope people get inspired and work on their own games more. We had this before in Cloudreach where we got inspired massively by skie's work ethic and in turn made us more active in game dev. That's the same feeling I wanted to achieve.
8) Are there any events that you feel could influence the amount of attention you're getting that are beyond your control? Tell us about them.
Buzzing section and development spotlight, maybe.
9) Have you ever successfully "gamed the system" in an attempt to influence an event outside of your direct control? Were you successful?
I do not understand 'D');;;
TVtropes should have entries where the fans actually enjoyed the game to the point they pick through it like crazy to find memorable tropes/etc.
I have literally no fucking idea who made the Iron Gaia TV Tropes page or why (I MADE THAT GAME WHEN I WAS ESSENTIALLY A SMALL CHILD, IT IS VERY FLAWED), but since it's there I have asked people to update it just because...it bothers me that it's extant but not fully accurate. I think the people I asked never got around to it so yeah, no harm done.
*Advertising on other people's gamepages/threads/etc.
Can we talk about the boundaries of this taboo, guys?
For instance, when is it acceptable to mention or link to your game on a forum thread? And when is it not?
Posting dev process, graphics and honestly the reason I update is to hope people get inspired and work on their own games more. We had this before in Cloudreach where we got inspired massively by skie's work ethic and in turn made us more active in game dev. That's the same feeling I wanted to achieve.
That sounds rather awesome of you, actually. I think that being inspired by/inspiring others is great!
8) Are there any events that you feel could influence the amount of attention you're getting that are beyond your control? Tell us about them.
Buzzing section and development spotlight, maybe.
I have no idea how the buzzing section works. I don't even know if it is manually selected or an automatic function of site stats. If it is a function of site stats, I don't know how the numbers work.
buzz_view = 1
buzz_download = 25
buzz_comment = 150
buzz_subscriber = 1300
buzz_review = 500
buzz_media = 500
#Reviews are multiplied by the score
Games automatically accrue buzz when one of the above events happen (a game is viewed, a game is downlaoded, etc..).
overnight during the same cron job that calculates your current makerscore, there is a job that automatically divides a game's buzz in half (as a decay)
It's not the most elaborate system, but it's working better than I anticipated, imho
buzz_download = 25
buzz_comment = 150
buzz_subscriber = 1300
buzz_review = 500
buzz_media = 500
#Reviews are multiplied by the score
Games automatically accrue buzz when one of the above events happen (a game is viewed, a game is downlaoded, etc..).
overnight during the same cron job that calculates your current makerscore, there is a job that automatically divides a game's buzz in half (as a decay)
It's not the most elaborate system, but it's working better than I anticipated, imho
